he doesn't seem to want to do anything but play - Page 2

[PGTlatte]

I would not worry too much about the reversals at this age. If he's still doing it in two years, I would be more concerned then. Rainbow Resource has a book called Correcting Reversals that has helped our DS1.

You can show him the "correct" order and direction for strokes for letters. I use the "modern printing" ebook from Teacher Created resources. It's only $5 and you download it and print what you need. It has a sheet that shows the order and direction of strokes for each letter, and practice sheets for letters and words. I did not want to spend a ton of money on a formal handwriting program. This gives me everything I need.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by jackson'smama

the problem is his writing. while very legible, he writes mirror image for a few letters and numbers. and he makes them in a "weird" way. to me, it is very inefficient. for example, starting from the bottom rather than the top or (and these feels worse to me) just making it in a way that isn't "traditional". for example, for lowercase e, he'll make the little loop at the top and then completely separately, put the curve on the bottom instead of one swoop.

DS is 5, will be 6 next January. He writes the same way. I also personally think he grips the pencil too close to the paper, and it always looks like it would cause a hand cramp to me. When I've tried to show him that, he's gotten really angry at me. I figure eventually he'll catch on and change the way he's doing things.

DH is panicky about DS' letters because he writes a fair number in mirror images, and he is not progressing in learning to read. The more I read, though, the more I realize that it's normal for boys especially at this age.

[lmonter]

Originally Posted by jackson'smama

but i DO NOT want to screw this up with what works for ME. I've already been to school.

i worry that if i don't work on helping him form letters in an efficient and non-mirror image way that this is going to stick or something and it'll take him forever to write a sentence in a few years b/c he "draws" his letters instead of printing them.
tell me i'm crazy. please.

First, I have that same issue - I have to think outside the box/outside my own comfort zone for what I think will work for my boy. I wasn't a boy like he is and like hubby was, so I have a tendency to run ideas by hubby to see if he would've enjoyed it when he was little. So far hubby's been a good judge.

Second, you're crazy. Sure, if a 17yo is still writing like that, it could be problematic. My boy couldn't care less what the alphabet was at 5yo, he just paid attention when we were reading the ABC board book. So writing things? Wasn't on his to-do list. He still has a backwards lower-case "e" and a few other goofy letters. But. He's still at the beginning! He's still learning! He gets so, so, so frustrated when he can't get things perfect the first time around (gee, wonder where he got that from? ). I have to constantly remind him that it takes time and lots and lots of practice to get really good at something. Handwriting included.

[zebra15]

Originally Posted by jackson'smama

ok. thank you all SO MUCH. i will admit this is going to be hard b/c i am not a go-with-the=flow kind of person myself. i like schedules and organization, etc...
but i DO NOT want to screw this up with what works for ME. I've already been to school.

but let me throw this at you. he LOVES to write. he seems quite proud after finishing a reading lesson (he just gets whiny during it, and it only lasts about 10 minutes tops). the problem is his writing. while very legible, he writes mirror image for a few letters and numbers. and he makes them in a "weird" way. to me, it is very inefficient. for example, starting from the bottom rather than the top or (and these feels worse to me) just making it in a way that isn't "traditional". for example, for lowercase e, he'll make the little loop at the top and then completely separately, put the curve on the bottom instead of one swoop. i worry that if i don't work on helping him form letters in an efficient and non-mirror image way that this is going to stick or something and it'll take him forever to write a sentence in a few years b/c he "draws" his letters instead of printing them.
tell me i'm crazy. please.

This is gentle ok... homeschooling with little kids is very 'go with the flow'... To me, it sounds like you have a bit of a type A personality, kids are messy, explorative, inquisitve, etc...

There is more than one way to teach handwriting. Even in the one school district I work with they use 2-3 different 'types' of printing. Given time your DS will improve, its not going to be effecient right from the start. Let your son explore and try out writing. Once he 'sees' lots of writing examples, does writing and has a small amount of help it will improve.

My son is 10 and he prefers to type most things. He can write, he just prefers to type EVERYTHING if he could. Is that a product of my teaching? maybe, is that a sign of the times we live in? maybe, but most likely its my sons personality. In his opinion (and mine) typing is just faster, neater, and more efficient.

[kittywitty]

You're not crazy at all! My 5.5 year old is the same way. Writes constantly, but still has reversals. My son is 8 and has some visual sensory issues, so he still reverses some, but Handwriting Without Tears has really helped with that. I don't usually mention it to my 5 yo for most things, but will occasionally show her the right way if she's asking how to spell something. Totally normal at their age.

[jackson'smama]

again, thank you ALL! i need to relax. to PP who indicated i might have a type A personality, you are right on the money. it is one of the reasons why i wonder if i'll be "good enough" to homeschool my children. there's probably a part of me somewhere that hopes that my children will change me - if i could just let them.
i talked to dh last night and said that i want to take a step back from this and focus more on playing. which is a whole 'nother story. i don't enjoy playing particularly and both ds 1 and 2 want me pretty involved in their play most of the time. i have a really hard time with imagination or something b/c i just have a really hard time getting into making car noises and moving army men around. i didn't have problems as a child, but i guess i've just outgrown it and have a hard time getting it back.
will work on more of just family life, outings, special "projects" (which he loves), creating, reading, and yes, playing.
will try to work in some math and reading in short bursts b/c he really does seem proud of himself when he completes these things. i just have to back off when he says no, i guess.
thanks again - and if you have any suggestions for helping me get more into playing, bring 'em on!

[pinky]

I think when your oldest is 5 or 6, it's just so hard to have any perspective. I fretted a lot about just the kinds of things that you're worrying about--but for better or worse, I had a toddler consuming most of my attention when my older dd was 5, so we were forced into going with the flow. And guess what? She learned lots of stuff just by playing and living.

And, yes, all her reversed letters are now correct.

It's hard to trust, but it does get easier!

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by jackson'smama

ok. thank you all SO MUCH. i will admit this is going to be hard b/c i am not a go-with-the=flow kind of person myself. i like schedules and organization, etc...
but i DO NOT want to screw this up with what works for ME. I've already been to school.

but let me throw this at you. he LOVES to write. he seems quite proud after finishing a reading lesson (he just gets whiny during it, and it only lasts about 10 minutes tops). the problem is his writing. while very legible, he writes mirror image for a few letters and numbers. and he makes them in a "weird" way. to me, it is very inefficient. for example, starting from the bottom rather than the top or (and these feels worse to me) just making it in a way that isn't "traditional". for example, for lowercase e, he'll make the little loop at the top and then completely separately, put the curve on the bottom instead of one swoop. i worry that if i don't work on helping him form letters in an efficient and non-mirror image way that this is going to stick or something and it'll take him forever to write a sentence in a few years b/c he "draws" his letters instead of printing them.
tell me i'm crazy. please.

Just another mama here saying the same thing - my DD is the same age as your son. It's easier for me to be laid back, but I can see how it can be difficult. My DD mirror writes a fair amount, sometimes whole words are written entirely backwards. (She's left-handed, so that is probably related). I've not said a darn thing, and the reason for that is - she's still gaining confidence with her letters. I think she's very close to the point where she's confident enough that I can start pointing out the mirror writing. If she's not really confident it will just overwhelm her. Mirror writing is not going to be difficult to correct once she's pretty comfortable with the letters, I just don't see how it will be.

She, too, writes some letters awkwardly (such as starting from the bottom and drawing up) but I just noticed yesterday she self-corrected most of it already! I didn't say anything yet. I do think it's important to write efficiently, so I wasn't going to let it go too long, but I stayed quiet for a while so she could just ENJOY writing (and she does). Once she finds the enjoyment, a few pointers will probably go over ok. But if she felt like everything she did was wrong - ugh, I think she'd probably abandon her enjoyment.

So I watched her write a fairly long word - "rectangle" - and her strokes were perfect except she started from the bottom for the R and the T (though not the L). Otherwise totally perfect. Soon I'll show her about starting from the top - but honestly, I actually see her logic. The other parts of those letters are near the top, so starting from the bottom means she'll finish the first stroke closer to the next stroke! I plan to work on it with her, but honestly, if she continues to write that way I don't see it as being a huge loss in efficiency.

[lmonter]

Originally Posted by jackson'smama

thanks again - and if you have any suggestions for helping me get more into playing, bring 'em on!

I may be the minority, but I'd just leave them to their own devices with that. Picked up a book from the library the other day. Idle Parenting by some guy (it's upstairs and I don't feel like going up, sorry). How children do just great if you stick them in the backyard with sticks and rocks. I do not condone this man's opinion 100%, but it's an interesting perspective, and makes me feel a little better about not being on the floor all the time making car noises.
My kids do decent at entertaining themselves, but I've always been more of a gal who sits at the table or on the couch chatting with friends when we have playdates; only interfering when need be. They love showing off their creations so I have to be "on" for that, but still. It's nice when they wake up quietly in the morning and come downstairs and start playing like half an hour before I wake out of my stupor. My 6yo has fashioned a pulley out in the backyard before. Out of a random piece of string, a metal rod/hook leftover from a car canopy, a bucket, and our maple tree. While I'm inside doing dishes or taking a shower or nursing a sibling or whatever. So it could be something worth trying out here and there.

[Curlyfry7]

subbing so I can find this later....seem s exactly what I was going to post about (except my DS is almost 4)

[hadleys_mom]

As far as not getting into playing, I have the same problem and I've found that sometimes just being in the same room that they are playing in and being available to "mom, watch spiderman crash into the truck!" is enough. I've also found that sometimes it is just their "attention cups" that need to be filled. So instead of playing together, we play playdoh, build with legos, or do a craft together (things that are easier for me to really get into) until they are bored with me and want to go off and do their own thing.

I understand wanting structure but knowing it needs to be relaxed. I try to structure our weeks and months instead of our days. Monday we run errands, Tuesday is the library, Wednesday play date...and so on. I also come up with projects for ME during that time so that when the kids are off playing, I have something to work on. Something to show some progress in my life. Over the last two years, I've needed less structure and have become use to going with the flow.

[FireWithin]

Rather than academics, could you make sure you carve out a block of time where mama focuses on him and helps him do things that might be hard to do on his own - science experiments, cooking, play, etc. That way he will have a predictable block of time to explore, where you can fascilliate.

[Lillian J]

I just got back from vacation this morning, so I'm just darting in and out quickly, but here's a link to my page of links to a number of interesting articles, most by educational professionals or researchers, emphasizing the crucial importance of play in those early years, and not as a vehicle for delivering learning about the 3Rs, but just as a very important end in itself as a foundation for everything else in the future: preschool/kindergarten learning activities. - Lillia

[Lillian J]

A couple of other thoughts. The issues mentioned below come up pretty often:

he SAYS he's interested in ______, but when it's time to do ______, he'll do anything he can to put it off until later. he whines, he cries, he says "i can't do it". you name it, and he has an excuse.

The thing is that when a child shows interest in something, it doesn't mean he wants to then go about making a formal study of it - his curiosity can generally be satisfied with simple conversations in which he's told a bit about it, or in brief activities he expresses interest in, or being shown pictures or videos and having it left at that. If a child asks about something we don't particularly consider "educational," we just supply what they want to know and leave it at that rather than make a big fuss about it - but they balk when we suddenly make an issue out of something they just really don't want to go on and on about. If you imagine how it must seem to a child, they suddenly see the parent get relatively intense and demanding about something they simply don't see as that big a deal, and I would imagine it's pretty hard to sort out why.

and try ask him some questions. "i don't know" was all he could come up with. to every.single.question.

This is very, very common, especially in children that age - we see threads here about it every now and then, with just that wording. "I don't know" is basically all they can come up with to explain that they don't understand why they're being asked all that and that they want it all to just go away. People will say, "I know he knows it, because he had just said _________," or something to that effect - but that means a parent is asking a child questions to get him to feed back things they know he knows - and that make no sense to him. I just read a book about bears in Alaska - I'd really balk if someone in my family started asking me questions about it that sprang not from curiosity about bears but from some other motivation such as testing to see whether I understood what I'd read or for some other reason I couldn't even begin to understand. Since I'm an adult, I could tell them I don't care to participate in that line of questioning, but all a small child can generally come up with is "I don't know." They're not lying - they're just trying to cope with their limited ability to articulate their frustration with having to phrase things the way a parent wants to hear them or to rehash things they just really don't want to have to rehash, and they don't understand why they're being put through that. Again, that's very, very common. Here's a post that links to a number of threads where it's discussed.

- Lillian

[CoolMomNC]

Reluctant writer

Try "Handwriting without tears, " when you think he is ready.

You can also make up a game or story about the letters, and how they go from top to bottom, left to right.

When my kids learned to write (in school), they were never taught how to properly form the letters. Handwriting practice is often omitted in schools today. But--they both have messy writing, and would have benefited form some.

[EviesMom]

A couple of thoughts:
First, was he in school before? How long has he been out? Some of it does sound like deschooling potentially.

Secondly, your desire for structure and his desire for low academics can both be met. You can structure your day for different types of activities without any of them being traditional academics. I still do that with my preschooler--messy active play, outdoor activity, quiet activity, lunch.

Third, for things that my child has struggled with in homeschooling, I have found it useful to arrange subjects with a built-in reward or downtime. IE-Writing before the most beloved Music, to encourage her to finish the Writing quickly and not complain! Harder subjects earlier or just after a break/snack so the brain is fresher/more focused.