Outings are a disaster! I can't control my kids!

[francesruben]

Sorry this is a long post but I'm totally stressed out. Why can't my kids behave in public? By the time I take them both home after an outing I am inevitably a nervous wreck. I'm just so sick of feeling like this. And I'm so tired of handing out lectures at the end of every trip out of the house.

DD (almost 4) is a fairly challenging kid. She's always been hard to take out. She didn't like sitting in a stroller or hanging out in a sling as a baby and is very tactile. Trips to shops have always been hard because she wants to touch everything. She's a really busy girl who generally plays well at home or in contained spaces but is very difficult to control when stimulated by lots of stuff or people. Group activities are really challenging and she has trouble following instructions or the flow of activity in a group. She wants to lead and if she can't lead she inevitably rebels. She is very loud and can be very disruptive.

DS (almost 2) is much more easy going in temperament but also very active and as he gets older is more interested in keeping up with his sister. This is a new phase for me- I now have two energetic kids and I'm outnumbered. Whenever we go out I am literally running after them trying to keep them under control. DD just takes off running with DS hot on her trail. This has just become a whole lot more difficult recently- DD is just too much for me to handle right now.

I have tried to make my expectations clear. The other day at the library I said I needed them to sit down on a chair for 2 minutes while I looked for a book then we could go to the kids section. They didn't last two seconds. I explained that we needed to walk quietly to the kids section, they ran yelling instead. I explained that they should each find some books and then I would read to them. DD decided to start jumping off chairs instead. I threatened to go straight away. At this point in any (and every) outing she completely outwits me. She manages to behave just well enough not to go home but badly enough that I feel completely frazzled.

Today was the same thing. We went to playgroup and then quickly walked a block to the store to buy milk and a few things to take home for lunch. I was very firm. DD needed to hold my hand- no running on the street or running in the store. Needless to say it was disastrous. I had two kids running in different directions. I'll admit my own fault in this- I've given them the freedom to walk instead of going in the stroller and they have completely abused that freedom. I have made it clear to them now that they will be sitting in a stroller or trolley until they can show me that they can can behave appropriately.

Playgroup is another disaster. At morning tea everyone sits together at the table to eat- parents and kids. DD is always the first to get up and run around with other kids following. Why am I always chasing her? I'm so worn out. Today was so terrible I was yelling at them in the car after the store. I'm sick of reprimanding them. DS doesn't get it at all- it's not fair on him at all. I have threatened many times lately that there will be no outings at all. But that just isn't realistic. Sometimes I need to go to the store with them and they need to behave. Sitting in a stroller may help somewhat but DD can and will easily get herself out. She's one step ahead of me the whole way!

[NellieKatz]

I can identify.

I see that you are "saying" "telling" and "explaining"....but I am not seeing from this post what you are DOING in order to demonstrate what you'll put up with.

I read something a long time ago and can't really remember who it was, but he presented the idea of "whose problem IS it"? If you have been reasonable and are not asking them to do something that's developmentally or temperamentally impossible (that's an important question to always ask first), then I'd go to the next step which is to remember that this is their problem, not yours. Right now it's your problem. Your shopping, errands, duties, etc. are being ruined because they aren't able to hold it together. So assuming (like I said before) that you are not taking them to things it's not yet within their ability to handle (I know about this, as my son sounds like your daughter....born leader, highly sensitive, easily overwhelmed in a crowd or in a noisy kid-filled place)....so assuming that, then you just have to look at it that THEY have to own this problem. If they aren't going to do as you ask, take the attitude that it's not the slightest skin off your teeth, as they say. It is they who lose out, and it is they who need to figure out a way to get back the things that they want. Obviously it's harder for the littlest one, with less impulse control, but still....what happens when they do this? I understand the desire not to have the day be wall-to-wall "punishments" and I don't believe in an endless stream of timeouts or contrived things like that, but seriously....things that you drag them to for THEIR enjoyment and fun (playdates, parks, carnivals, toy stores, ice cream, etc) really can go away quite quickly. Face it, it's a pain in the neck for you to spend your afternoon at some exhausting kid event, so you won't miss it when it's gone....but they might. "Listen you guys, I'm cancelling the trip to the park that we had planned for today." "Why Mama?" [insert crying here] "I can't count on you to behave. When you do as I ask, I can take you to fun places."

Like that. Good luck ! Mine's 7 years old now and it's hard to remember what he was like at 4, but I think I've seen well-behaved kids at 4 (and envied how their parents were able to accomplish it!) and I think I've learned a few things since then.

It's important not to THREATEN this, but to actually DO it a few times. It will be hard to endure all that disappointed crying, but once they know Mom means business, they'll get the picture. Respect is a two way street and you deserve some too. They will learn to respect you when they see you standing up for yourself and defining what you'll tolerate.

[Annie Mac]

I'm sure you've tried this, but what about the Cesar Milan approach? Take them for a long run first and *then* ask them to go by another dog without biting...or, um, go to the library or grocery shopping

I realize it may not be practical all the time, but allowing them to blow off steam in the park before they go into the library where they're expected to be quiet and still might help.

[NellieKatz]

Oh, and one more thing...in the subject line of your post......you're right, you can't "control your kids." Outside of really dire situations (prison, dictatorships, extreme manipulation, etc) you really cannot control another human being, nor would you want to, if you have respect for their autonomy as human beings. I think it helps instead to look at it as "My kids have not learned to control themselves." Doesn't that feel better?

It's true....as a parent, if we rely on the "I must control them" model, then when they get older and out of the home, it becomes increasingly impossible and stressful.

Instead, you want kids who know the limits you've set and who comply to them. Now you've just got to give them the reasons to comply, such as: They love you, they respect you, you've set appropriate boundaries, the expectations are clear, the family has a culture in which all members seek to get their genuine needs met, that sort of thing.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by Annie Mac

I'm sure you've tried this, but what about the Cesar Milan approach? Take them for a long run first and *then* ask them to go by another dog without biting...or, um, go to the library or grocery shopping

I realize it may not be practical all the time, but allowing them to blow off steam in the park before they go into the library where they're expected to be quiet and still might help.

This is the only way I was able to deal with my high needs boy... just get him tuckered out before trying anything where he needed to be calm.

[One_Girl]

I used to go to the kid area first and grab some picture books for my dd to look at while I was looking for my book when she was younger. Bringing a couple toys along can also help sometimes. Our library has some toys upstairs that kids can bring with them as parents look for books. I almost always timed my shopping trips for times when we could get the car cart and riding in the cart wasn't optional until she grew to big for it.

[weliveintheforest]

It sounds like less outings would be good, but I wouldn't bother telling them, I would just not go.

For the library, it might help if you go online and order all your books ahead of time so you can just pick them up and sign them out.
At playgroup tea time, can your dd sit in your lap? it might help you keep her eating/sitting a bit longer.

Maybe a change in your routines would be helpful, getting up earlier and getting home earlier is always good for us. Having some healthy muffins or something in the stroller for breakfast might give you some peace at least one way to your destination. Can you carry your 2 year old in an ergo or something? My ds is almost 3 but I will carry him on my back to keep him out of trouble sometimes.

[happysmileylady]

For safety purposes to deal with the running off....have you considered kid leashes? I know lots of folks are opposed to them, but as you have said, you are outnumbered and it's really not safe for a 2 year old and 4 year old to take off running in opposite directions when you are at Walmart. If you have them on a kid leash, they can walk around some, but not a lot, and you can still get the grocery shopping done.

Another suggestion, taken straight from my own mom...I am the oldest of 4. My mom NEVER went grocery shopping with all 4 of us, but occasionally took 2 of us at a time. And when we went, before doing ANYTHING, she went to the cookie aisle and grabbed a single serving size box of animal crackers for each of us. She popped them open right there and we were allowed to eat them throughout the store. It wasn't a bribe, it was a totally novel thing to occupy us-it was the only time we got animal crackers and I remember at least for me, feeling so sneaky eating the crackers BEFORE paying for them. Something like that, a special toy or snack to occupy them while you are getting your stuff done might help. My parents also used the same principle to take us on long car trips-we would get a brand new novel toy every like 2 hours during the trip.

[MamieCole]

Originally Posted by francesruben

I have tried to make my expectations clear. The other day at the library I said I needed them to sit down on a chair for 2 minutes while I looked for a book then we could go to the kids section. They didn't last two seconds. I explained that we needed to walk quietly to the kids section, they ran yelling instead. I explained that they should each find some books and then I would read to them. DD decided to start jumping off chairs instead. I threatened to go straight away. At this point in any (and every) outing she completely outwits me. She manages to behave just well enough not to go home but badly enough that I feel completely frazzled.


Playgroup is another disaster. At morning tea everyone sits together at the table to eat- parents and kids. DD is always the first to get up and run around with other kids following. Why am I always chasing her? I'm so worn out. Today was so terrible I was yelling at them in the car after the store. I'm sick of reprimanding them. DS doesn't get it at all- it's not fair on him at all. I have threatened many times lately that there will be no outings at all. But that just isn't realistic. Sometimes I need to go to the store with them and they need to behave. Sitting in a stroller may help somewhat but DD can and will easily get herself out. She's one step ahead of me the whole way!

I totally empathize. I don't have a child like this (yet) but my best friend does and I have seen her struggle with the same things you are describing. I've watched her have a lot of success by following through with removing activities that her kids just simply could not handle.

You've gotten great advice so far, especially the advice about not just talking, but doing. (hence the bolding) I know that I sometimes find myself thinking that gentle discipline means that everything can be solved by talking. And lots of things can. But sometimes, it isn't enough and action has to be taken in addition to the words.

"Would you like to go to playgroup today? Yes? Great! Here is what is going to happen: When it is time to eat, you need to remain sitting at the table until Mommy tells you it is ok to get up. This may mean that you have to sit for a few minutes after you have finished eating, but it is not ok for you to get up early and run around. It prevents the other children from finishing their food and causes Mommy to not be able to finish either. Once it is time to leave the table, you may run and play with your friends. If you can't sit at your own seat, you may sit in my lap. If you refuse to cooperate, we will simply come home."

Then be prepared to leave straight away if she refuses to sit and eat. This is all assuming that the amount of time you expect her to sit is age appropriate. Next time playgroup rolls around, same thing. If there is no improvement over time, then no more playgroups for a while.

Set her up for success. If she is overstimulated by lots of people/stuff, keep outings to locations w/few people. If the grocery store is too stimulating, perhaps work out a way to leave her in the care of someone else while you grocery shop with the 2 year old only. Instead of going to playgroup, invite one good friend to your home to play.

Keeping her safe is the biggest priority. If she refuses to hold hands, remain in stroller, etc, then she either gets to wear a kiddie leash or she stays home. There is no need for you to run yourself ragged just trying to accomplish simple everyday tasks.

[Cujobunny]

For instances like the library and the playgroup, I just wouldn't expect them to sit still. My ds is very active and was never the type to sit still and look at books at the library, or sit and listen to adults talk, he wanted to run around, play, talk to kids. I tried to take him to story time when he was younger but that was an exercise in futility. The leader insisted I keep bringing him, that he would learn to sit still and listen but I thought, "why, it's making me crazy following him around, telling him to be quiet." Yeah, he'll eventually be old enough and ready to sit still how about I just not spend between now and then nagging him to do it.

For my books, I go to the library alone or order my books online and pick them up when they arrive. I do take them to the library to pick out their books but when they start to get rambunctious I say "the library is not the place to run around and be loud. How about we go outside and do that." DS is a lot better now that he can read, he will sit and read for quite a while.

In a store I enlist their help to find what we need. Doesn't always work though, if they're wired I avoid stores altogether. Deal with whatever we have at home until I can get to the store to get what we need. Takes a lot of planning ahead but it saves a lot of frustration for me, them, and any other adults they come into contact with

ETA: ITA agree with the pps about the safety issue- if there's any running into the street going on, they hold my hand or we go home. My 3yo would get carried. Otherwise, I would keep a stroller or leash on hand for when they cannot control themselves. I tell them "I need to keep you safe. If you cannot control your body and be safe then I am going to help you control yourself".

[sunshadow]

My daughter is the same way. The last trip to the library I vowed never again, and that was with only picking up my holds and trying to check out. She was screaming because she couldn't type in my library card number... yeah, that would be hard for a 3 year old to do, and I did try guiding her finger, but she wouldn't have it. I know I need to find my card so I can have it and then she can scan it, but it just gets tiresome to always have to be 10 steps ahead of what she will want because when I get it wrong forget about it! She won't walk in the library, has falling twice and gotten bad carpet burns. She yells too. Every time we go we review, talk quietly and walk, but the second she is in the door all bets are off. Going to the library is one of our favorite things and I am sad to think we can't do that together.

She has been refusing to hold my hand to cross the street. I told her this was nonnegotiable, but she still refused. I can't pick her up because she screams and kicks and hurts me. It's those things where I wonder if I should just let her walk next to me, or if that is sending her the message that every time she yells enough the rules get dumbed down.

I have a 7 month old and I wonder how that's going to go as he gets older. I have to get out of the house with them though because we all get stir crazy if we don't.

Hang in there!

[francesruben]

Thanks for so many good replies.

Yes, I am talking too much. I'm sick of the sound of my own voice. DD has told me many times to "stop talking". I do need to get tougher and actually DO something, and I'll admit I'm not a very tough person.

Despite my subject line about controlling them, I don't really want to 'control' my kids and I try to avoid punishments, bribes and other controlling parenting methods- hence all the talking! But I do want them to learn to control themselves like NelliKatz said. I have tried adjusting my expectations to meet DD's abilities, but maybe I do need to adjust things a bit more. Most of our outings are kid friendly but recently even trips to the park have been difficult with DD running off way out of sight with her cousin following- they even crossed a car park without an adult. DD has heaps of running around time and free time, more than most kids I know. So while it's a good suggestion to tire her out I don't think that lack of running around is the real issue here. I've never liked to think of kids as inherently manipulative but I really feel like I'm being played by DD. She likes me running after her, she is enjoying being disruptive, but probably more than anything she wants to be her own boss, and that is ok by me in many situations. But I also strongly believe she needs to learn acceptable social behaviour. And I need to enjoy our outings too. Otherwise I'd prefer just stay home and do my own thing.

Wow, a leash- she would absolutely hate that!! This is so far from what she is used to. But I do need a back up for safety and sanity.

[2cutiekitties]

If this were my DD, I would be staying at home for a while. I think at almost 4 it is within her ability to NOT run away.

So now I am going to hijack your thread because I also have this problem with my 3.5 yr old..... but for anything he doesn't want to do. I specifically do not take him to places like CVS or Hallmark where there is so much stuff to touch, the temptation is too much and the expectation is unfair, imo. But sometimes he just has to go to Target or Publix with me.

Originally Posted by Annie Mac

I'm sure you've tried this, but what about the Cesar Milan approach? Take them for a long run first and *then* ask them to go by another dog without biting...or, um, go to the library or grocery shopping

I realize it may not be practical all the time, but allowing them to blow off steam in the park before they go into the library where they're expected to be quiet and still might help.

Backfires.......
This I have tried so many times and what happens is my tot gets tired tired and turns into a big crankster and then we have to leave because I end up not even know what I am doing there because he becomes so hard to deal with.


The leash.....
Yikes, I did try this. DS just stood there and wouldnt move.