VBA2C with recurring Hypertension, any ideas??

[claudi81]

Hi,

my first pregnancy ended in a c-section due to failed induction with a prostagladin gel at 37.5 weeks. They suspected Pre-eclampsia, hdigh 140 over high 90 severe water weight gain protein....my second pregnancy I felt very well and even tough my PB went up towards the end at around 37 weeks it was always comming down to 120/70 which is nice when I was laying down on my side, since I had no other signs, no protein in urine no water or weight gain towards the end they let me go on till 41 weeks which at around 40 weeks I started to feel sick again with mild headaches and dizzyness since they would not induce and it was policy to schedule a c-section at 41 weeks if not in labor before I had a RCS...Well of course I was upset and sad, but living 1-2 hr away from the hospital worrying about the hypertension and its possible affects on me and the baby I gave in and had an actual good c-section experience with lots of close contact and bonding.

However I am pregnant with #3 and if I am going for my VBA2C I want to take certain remedees into concideration that may help me to keep my BP in check and help stay well even beyond 41 weeks LOL.

Many assume the condition may be related to wrong diet, lack of exercisel, overweight etc...this is not the case for me I have an optimal BMI my BP is perfect and actually low 100/65 now and through most of my pregnancy. I am taking good pre-natal vitamins that even my chiro "muscle tested" on me and those even contain protein and danelion etc. there is reslly nothing that can explain why I end up having a higher BP at the end, but I am still hoping that someone can give me some ideas of what else I can try to keep my BP and my kidney in a good condition????


I think making all those changes to my diet and the vitamins actually avoided the pre-eclampsia last time, but the pressue goes up

[AlexisT]

Unfortunately, lying down on your side will always bring your BP down even if it is severe. There are no known preventives for PE/PIH. Some people will swear by diets and vitamins but it's never panned out when they do controlled studies. (Believe me, this would be close to the Holy Grail of obstetrics if it were true--hypertensive disorders are most common serious preventable complication of pregnancy and can lead to death, especially in countries with poor obstetric care. Doctors are not suppressing some natural preventive for PE. For that matter, they haven't shown that BP meds do wonders, either.)

The good news is, recurrent PE/PIH tends to be less severe with each pregnancy. (Not a guarantee, but a tendency.) And that appears to be the case for you. If you weren't symptomatic until 40+ weeks last time, the chances are that you will go into labor before it develops this time--if it even does, since there's no guarantee of that either. I would plan on closer monitoring during labor if your BP rises again, and I am sure your doctors/midwives will monitor you closely during pregnancy, which is the right thing to do--but with that pattern you have a good shot at dodging the bullet this pregnancy.

[claudi81]

Thanks that is some interesting information.

Buit I do not understand the part where you said, that it is the most preventive and deadliest pregnancy condition?? In the beginning you mentioned that there is nothing known to be super successful to prevent it and studies backed that up???

I think my vitamins , exercise, chiro, nutrition etc. may have helped to postpone or reduce many symptoms or at least I only had the PIH quite late, my Baby was almost 9 lb which is a good and healthy size and he is a healthy boy, my daughter was quite slim and light, so I am hoping that this pregnancy may be just as good as the last one and I hope the Baby does not wait till my body gives in to the stupid PIH or PE

[AlexisT]

Oh gosh, that was a complete brain fart. Delete that preventable - it should just be "most common serious complication..." I don't know what on earth made me type that.

[courtenay_e]

Varney's actually lists a high calorie and high protein diet as prevention and treatment for PIH.

[AlexisT]

That would be the Brewer diet, and you can search on preeclampsia.org's forums to find out what the research says about that, and personal stories from women who developed PIH/PE while on the diet. Basically, it doesn't work and the theory doesn't fit with what we now know about preeclampsia.

[claudi81]

In my 2nd pregnancy I never actually developed preeclampsia just PIH at the very end I am sure my symptoms would have gotten worse if I stayed pregnant any longer but I made it to 41 weeks and got a 9 lb baby out if so I would say 99 % of my pregnancy since I went past due went on to be a pretty good and healthy pregnancy. I am sure that diet, chiro and nutrition helped a lot. I actually took protein as a drink and as part of my pre-natals vitamins (nutriwest) which and my 24 hr Urine at 38 weeks reveals prtein count to low to calculate, when I read my report of the day of my c-section (remember 2nd ) pregnancy it revealed a protein of 3 if I am not mistaking and bp at rest 143/98, not too bad but concidering that I usually got my bp to drop down with rest to 125/75 before I can only imagine how high it must get when I am standing and moving which probably have caused the my dizzyness and headaches.

What surprises me is that I am usually running a lower Bp 100/65 or 120/70 at best and I am a tall slender person, I have no Idea why it goes up by the time I hit the last few weeks I wish I know, its like as soon I hit a certain weight or the Baby a certain size, fundus inside of me I can tell my pb has changed and I feel it sitting up and standing???
Crazy phenonmenon, why couldn't I be a lucky one and have my baby want to come out in time ?? Its so silly that esp. me with my conditions I have the "bad" luck and my babys like to stay in far past due LOL, Iam still gratefull though my boy was strong big and healthy and nursed perfectly, dmy daughter whou was taking out early was not so much

I am praying for it all to go moothly and may start the EPO or so at around 36 weeks hoping I will not go too late, just to give us a bit of a chance

[MsBlack]

Originally Posted by AlexisT

That would be the Brewer diet, and you can search on preeclampsia.org's forums to find out what the research says about that, and personal stories from women who developed PIH/PE while on the diet. Basically, it doesn't work and the theory doesn't fit with what we now know about preeclampsia.

No, the Brewer diet doesn't work for everyone--but it certainly helps some and is not going to hurt anyone to try it. Some midwives think it's the best prevention/cure for pre-e, and try to get all their clients to use that diet throughout pregnancy. While I certainly have seen that eating enough protein--and calories in general--is best for mamas/babies, I don't go so far as to believe the Brewer Diet is that holy grail or ask all mamas to eat that way. But elevating protein is certainly on my list of suggestions if b/p elevates, especially in the presence of other symptoms of pre-e.

Just saying mainly, that it's too sweeping a statement to say that 'it doesn't work'. For all the women who used the Brewer Diet to no good effect, there are others who did--we have to look at *all* the evidence, not just some, to get a balanced view.

As for 'what we now know' about pre-e, the main 'knowledge' seems to be that no one knows WHY it happens--only that there is a cluster of symptoms of hard-to-track origins-- and that it can be quite harmful to both moms and babies. From my own research a couple years back, various studies have shown that different nutritional deficiencies can play a part. Anti-oxidant vitamins, Omega 3s, protein, calcium, have all been shown in different studies to play a part. One researcher, David Haig, essentially posits that pre-e is an 'allergic reaction' by moms to the foreign genes of their babies (putting it way simplistically here). Medically speaking, the attitude generally seems to be that there is an inherent opposition or war between mother and baby, competing for survival against each other. This does not have to be the case! It seems that for a very very small number of women, there is a genetic component--they inherit the tendency to pre-e; for them, that 'war' may be all too real--but again, the research is small, and suggests that only a very few women suffer pre-e for this reason.

And no one theory has ever proven itself more true than others. In my own experience, any number of factors can individually or combined lead to s/s of pre-e, including stress by itself (which does have a real impact upon physiological functioning).

Claudi81, it sounds like you are doing all the things most agree can be helpful to maintaining good health...are you also taking a good amount of omega 3s? Michel Odent wrote a compelling argument about this a few years back. The only other thing I might suggest is that you do all you can to prevent stress from creeping up on you and playing a needless part in your pregnancy and birth. Stands to reason that despite your best self-care, your history might make you nervous as you approach EDD once again...so maybe think about how to stay calm and relaxed as possible. Massage, visualization, focussed relaxation techniques, venting to supportive others as needed--whatever helps you stay calm, relaxed, confident.

High b/p by itself need not be a problem, by the way...if everything else checks out ok, then maybe you're just someone whose 'normal later-pregnancy b/p' is higher than some other womens'. I've seen this--no problems with it when all else is fine.

[claudi81]

yeah omega 3 is also part of my pre-natals they are wonderfull and like I said my chiro adjusts them to my nutritial needs (muscle testing etc.) at the end I am taking EPO, I think it was really just the higher BP and the load of stress that caused me to feel icky at the end well 41 weeks if our healthcare system would actually function the way it should I could have stayed in the hospital for a few day for observation maybe got some sweeps or other natural pushes to get me on my way, but hey no Ob has that much time to screw around when you already have one single symptom they have enough to reasonably argue in their report that the repeat c-section was needed at 41 weeks as their policy suggests that as a standart procedure anyways...

So how do you avoid stress at the end of your pregnancy when all you hear is we got to monitor you more often, oh the BP goes up again oh and if nothing happens by so and so many weeks past due its better to go for a c-section...I mean you want to be monitored I am not comfortable enough to just sit at home assuming all is well, but heck did I get an upset stomack everytime I have to go back in. But hey people kept mentioning how well I look how I had no swollen legs or feed etc.. so I found it reason enough to not let them section me till 41 weeks when I did not feel well anymore, was it the stress, I do not know.

As for my opnion a good diet is always beneficial to stay strong and healthy and profide for the baby, however I do not believe it will eleminate PIH alltogether, maybe postpone or minimize it to how bad it might have been without a good protein rich diet. I am a godd example for it I am as healthy as any person can be and do everything to stay that way, still have developt PIH or PE eventually, mild but I did.

Oterwise, how many "unhealthy" moms or moms with bad eating habits or other consumptions during pregnancy that may not be adviced, go on to have full term pregnancys and never develop PE/PIH??? There must be more behind a reason to develop PIH/PE then just the diet, on a scale from 1-10, 10 being the highest score for a good healthy diet etc. I consider myself a 9 at least and still develop PIH at the very end of my pregnancy and I am real slender and run low BP all the time. I am 99 % sure the cause is something else than just Diet. Still diet is like a good oil in a car that helps it run smoother even though it has issues here and there LOL

[MsBlack]

LOL--yeah, it never hurts to put good oil in the car, and change it on a regular basis...even though that will NOT fix the transmission

Pre-e can sure be such a mystery--so annoying if you are doing all you can to stay healthy...and watching less health-conscious people have normal pregnancies/births all around you . As a mw, I have seen how some women are just 'easy baby havers', it seems no more than luck of the draw that pregnancy and birth occur so easily for them!

As for managing the stress and staying calm/cool....one minute at a time, mama, one minute at a time. I had a client once who'd developed a bad case of white coat hypertension during her 1st preg which ended in an unnecessarian (given reasons were around PIH w/no other symptoms). Every time I took her b/p, she would have me wait a couple minutes while she took some slow deep breaths and made an effort to just relax. A couple times she forgot--and her b/p always looked bad--so we'd back off, do other things, and come back to it again in a little while. 2nd time, she would be sure to do her deep breathing....it was simply astonishing how much difference it made to her b/p. A big difference in both upper and lower numbers. Now, when a mama suffers white coat PIH, I won't even take her b/p myself, but instead have her do home monitoring and tell me the results.

I have heard it said that 'transient environmental stressors' (like having a pro check your b/p) can only impact the systolic/upper b/p number, that in an otherwise healthy person the diastolic/lower number will remain fairly stable in the face of transient stressors. But with some pregnant women with White Coat Hi B/P, this is simply not true in my experience. I've seen the whole b/p impacted over the course of just a couple minutes of deep breathing/focussed relaxation.

Whatever the 'true cause' for your pregnancy issues...whether or not you are able to find the One True Cure for YOU....practicing relaxation, getting really really good at that can really help a lot. All of our body systems function better when we're relaxed...all suffer ill effects/reduced function in the presence of catecholamines/stress hormones. It seems almost counter intuitive to try to learn to 'relax on demand'...but it can be done! And I can't say it will be your cure--only that it sure couldn't hurt and *may be* just 'cure enough' to help you have the normal birth you want

[JTA Mom]

Recent research seems to point towards a placental issue. Apparently it does not attach deeply enough into the uterus.

Taking this as the 'cause' of pre-e, for me, calms me. I mean, if it's something *I* am doing, I stress out. But really, I cannot control implantation. It just happens. This takes a lot of guilt, stress and self-blame away. I find that as wonderful as the suggestions for dietary changes are, I believe it is too often used as a way for others to distance themselves from the issue--kinda in a 'if only she hadn't done x, she would be fine. Ergo, if I avoid x, I am safe'. Classic victim blaming to make themselves feel safer, when the reality is totally different.

The truth about pregnancy and birth is that there's a huge portion of luck involved. Honestly, one pregnancy can be peachy perfect, another end horribly. Some women get pregnant instantly, others it takes months of 'right' timing and still no baby. No one has answers to these questions. They sometimes just happen. For me, accepting that pregnancy and birth are unpredictable helps me let go of fear. Once I truly accepted that I cannot take anything for granted, it was much easier to go with the flow. This doesn't mean I didn't have moments of fear though. Just that I was able to 'let go' of it because I am not completely in control of what will be. I do the best I can, but whatever happens, happens. That's why lots of insurance companies have 'acts of God' clauses.

Ami

[MelindaGayle]

A study just came out recently linking vitamin D deficiency to preE, so you should just get out in the sunshine - it will help with prevention and stress at the same time!

[jr'smom]

This was my case for my first 2 pregnancies. My 3rd pregnancy went great. The differences: I went on Vitanica's HBP Blend (Rauwolfia), kept BP in check with NUCCA chiropractic (see research study on www.nucca.com about it reducing BP better than 2 BP meds combined), and did the Brewer's Diet. This time just doing the NUCCA chiropractic and Brewer's diet, unless my BP starts to rise, then I'll do the Rauwolfia again.