wwyd with this puppy?

[ComaWhite]

My boyfriend got a puppy 2 months ago, its now a 4.5 month old golden retriever.
It has so far been a great dog with him and me, very eager to please, affectionate and learns quickly.
But it has displayed dominant behaviour like mounting my daughters, knocking them over, nipping at them to correct their screaming and spontaneous movements and in the last week it has bitten my 2 yo twice, unprevoked, right in front of me, hard enough to break the surface of the skin. And today to top it, when I corrected her for ripping a hole in the couch cushion, she held her ears back and bared her teeth at me.
I personally am not comfortable with this dogs behaviour anymore and want it to go, but is there something that I or my kids are doing wrong to provoke this,or is this normal puppy behaviour that it will grow out of? to boot I have an autistic daughter that is NOT capable of controlling her behavior in front of the puppy.....
would you talk seriously about rehomeing this dog before his plans to eventually move in?

[Baby~Braatens~Mama]

Hey. I am sorry you are going through this! Puppies can be the most complicated, devasting and aggravating things in the WORLD! I know! And I love my dog, but there were so many days when she was a puppy where we barely made it. I have come to believe that all puppies are about half demon. Lol. The good new is, that yours is still young enough to train, if you choose. I would take her to a trainer, someone who can show you how to control her dominant behavior before it is an engraved part of her nature. Until you can be sure that your children and property are safe from her puppy madness, maybe you can invest in a kennel. Socializing is really the only way to work out the kinks, but a kennel will protect everyone until she has been properly trained. Best of luck!!! Hang in there! Sometimes the most obnoxious puppies turn into the best and most loyal dogs.

[Baby~Braatens~Mama]

Oh, and the book "The Dog Bible" was a life saver for me.

[ComaWhite]

Thanks for the quick reply, I know that I cant afford a trainer but Ill see if he is willing... I am also due in 7 weeks and am worried about her hurting the new little one.
 

Edited by ComaWhite - 2/4/12 at 4:12pm

[mum4vr]

I may take a lot of flack for saying so, but any dog who bites and breaks skin on a child needs a home where there will NEVER be any chance of contact with children, and many consider this to be behavior that warrants putting a dog down. (I do not mean a nip or snap that accidentally caught a child the wrong way and broke skin, or an animal defending itself; I mean deliberately bit a child unprovoked.)

A friend of ours put a dog down after he bit through my daughter's face unprovoked. I felt terrible and guilty, but the owner said he looked at his own little girl and thought about what he would want to happen if it had been his child as well as the continuing risk to his child of keeping a dog who bites kids.

That said, it IS still a puppy, and is probably trying to "parent" the children in true dog fashion-- that's how they control their young. I would contact a reputable trainer and ask whether they think this behavior can be unlearned. Then if you keep the dog, be willing to pay for and follow through with the recommended training.

I would have a hard time with this, and would wonder (as I am sure you are right now) whether the risk to a child in the future outweighs the desire to keep the puppy.

Let us know how this goes for you.

blessings

[mum4vr]

oh, and for whining in the kennel, a squirty bottle of water or a water pistol does wonders. Some folks add a little vinegar to the water, but I have never found this necessary-- even my dog who LOVES water knew this was a consequence for bad behavior and responded favorably to a squirt with every bark or whine.

[Baby~Braatens~Mama]

My dog HATES being squirted with water! If she is doing something I don't approve of, all I have to do is grab the bottle and show it too her. She ducks down her head and makes a run for it... to the bedroom for a nap, usually.

[lonegirl]

I would enlist in the help of a good trainer and get on to some puppy classes....with the whole family. It is important to get the whole family on board with training. Call your vet for some names of good trainers (often some of the techs do training classes too)

[greenmagick]

What training have you done with this puppy? What do you do when it gets exciteable and starts nipping? How much exercise is it getting? training lessons? Does it have a safe place away from the children?

A 4.5 month old puppy being truly aggressive is very rare....but very concerning. However, a 4.5 month old puppy being out of corntrol rough and tumble is very common and is not too hard to fix.

Also, knocking the kids down, nipping, etc in NOT the pup showing dominant behavior.

[ComaWhite]

Firstly, the water trick wont work as she LOVES being sprayed in the face with water bottles/hoses, its one of her favorite things....

Her training... well she knows how to sit, lie down, working on "stay", knows to go to her kennel when told, heel, shes housebroken she stays at your side off-leash. Neiter of us has a vechile so puppy lessons are not an option.
She gets at least a 1/2 run every day plus she often plays the entire time in the yard with my pug/terrier mix. She started some serious food aggression with my dog, so we just keep them separated around food now, but Im still afriad that the kids are going to drop a piece of food and shes going to snap his little neck over it.
Her kennel is off limits to the kids so she has a safe space away from them.
She doesnt really get excitable and nip, but she will jump up and snap at them if they run by her or make sudden movements or loud noises. When I say sheas knocking them over, shes not bumping into them excitable by accident, she is deliberately taking them down, pawing at their face to hold them down and standing over them and not letting them up.

...I did mention that I had an autistic daughter that can not be "trained" to behave a certain way around the dog, which is why he got a golden in the first place as they are supposed to be especially good with autistic kids.

[number572]

For your situation, I'd say please rehome that puppy soon. It sounds like you don't have the time for a puppy. This is not an attack on you - I understand that you're stretched very thin right now, but the way the dog is being left to cry (for hours?!) in its cage is not fair to the dog. I understand kenneling but it sounds like she's being put in there out of human frustration. She just wants to be played with and needs to be trained. Our retriever dog acted very puppy-like for a few YEARS, so this problem may not go away very soon at all. And without dedicated training, large breed dogs can be a big trouble and also cause damage and injury like nobody's business in a very short period of time! Someone would love to have a 5 month old Golden Retr. puppy. Not saying that you should feel bad for rehoming at all, I just feel bad for the dog after reading the way she's being treated. That's really not fair for her and it sounds like you're not enjoying having this dog anyway.

[ComaWhite]

Originally Posted by number572

For your situation, I'd say please rehome that puppy soon. It sounds like you don't have the time for a puppy. This is not an attack on you - I understand that you're stretched very thin right now, but the way the dog is being left to cry (for hours?!) in its cage is not fair to the dog. He just wants to be played with and needs to be trained. Someone would love to have a 5 month old Golden Retr. puppy. Not saying that you should feel bad for rehoming at all, I just feel bad for the dog after reading the way he's being treated. That's really not fair for him.

You must have misunderstood, I never said I left it it its kennel for hours alone to cry every day or even often for that matter. I did say that it would whine and bark IF left in its kennel for hours, like if I go out for the afternoon, its still whining and barking when I get home, or that I am NOT going to reward a puppy by letting it out at night when its barking for an hour in the first place, otherwise next time it has to be in its kennel, it WILL bark for an hour, knowing it will eventually bet let out and since its doing stuff like ripping apart the couch OF COURSE I will be putting it in a kennel at nighttime for goodness sakes.
Shame on you for making such harsh judgements, using a kennel is NOT cruel and the puppy is not "crying" cause its sad like a little human baby does.

[ComaWhite]

Originally Posted by number572

For your situation, I'd say please rehome that puppy soon. It sounds like you don't have the time for a puppy. This is not an attack on you - I understand that you're stretched very thin right now, but the way the dog is being left to cry (for hours?!) in its cage is not fair to the dog. She just wants to be played with and needs to be trained. Someone would love to have a 5 month old Golden Retr. puppy. Not saying that you should feel bad for rehoming at all, I just feel bad for the dog after reading the way she's being treated. That's really not fair for him.

Geez, did you even read the thread at all? The puppy IS being trained, it IS getting ample exercise, it IS being played with and getting daily socialization, I DO have the time for a dog and I am NOT stretched thin-those are simply assumptions you made.
I am having an ISSUE with the dog and asking for HELP.

[ComaWhite]

Originally Posted by number572

but the way the dog is being left to cry (for hours?!) in its cage is not fair to the dog. I understand kenneling but it sounds like she's being put in there out of human frustration. She just wants to be played with and needs to be trained.

Now that youve reworded your entire post, you are still making an assumption that I am leaving the dog in its kennel for hours in lieu of training it simply out of my frustration. I am not and never said I was doing any of these things.

[number572]

My gosh. I was honestly trying to be supportive. Reading your post it does sound like your situation is not good for you guys or the puppy. You said that you have another baby coming, that the dog has already bitten, have a child who has autism... and I did put all of that with the idea of remembering how much time every single day our retriever puppy took and it feels like that would stretch anyone thin. I really didn't mean offense, but was giving an honest answer. I don't think sticking a playful puppy in a cage is a nice way of training nor the suggestions to just shoot water at it. Public forums are bound to get answers from people of all beliefs and I wrote mine for you to consider. No need to attack me for thinking the dog could use a better situation too. I did read it and also took the time to write my thoughts on what you could do to make things easier for you... which is rehome the dog. Goodness gracious, I wish you the best luck and best luck to that puppy as well.

edit, I was rewording before I saw your post. And you did say that the puppy is stuck in its kennel and cries for an hour, sometimes longer and paws at the cage, which got suggestions from other pp's to shoot water at it. I really love dogs and just have a different idea on how to train. Its fine to have different thoughts on how to treat animals. Sigh

[greenmagick]

HOW are you training is what I was trying to get at. What are you doing when the puppy nips or knocks the kids down?

[mum4vr]

OP, I am sorry you are getting flack over trying to do the right thing and asking for advice. Sheesh.

I do think that you recognize aggressive behavior in this puppy, and that you know the difference between "just being a puppy" and aggression. You articulated this very clearly. If she were "just being a puppy" I doubt you'd be here asking advice-- you'd be just dealing with continuing to train your puppy.

I got flack, as predicted-- not as much as I anticipated, tho. Surprise, surprise, it's from someone more worried about your puppy not liking appropriate time in a kennel than the well being of your HUMAN babies who were attacked and bitten by the dog. Squirting water is not harming the dog. Putting the dog in a kennel is not harming the dog. The dog tackling little children and standing over them and holding them down/standing on them IS harming the child(ren). Biting the child(ren) IS harming the children. Just for the record. I know that animals are sometimes harmed by humans, and that is very sad, and it is wrong. In this case humans are being harmed by an animal, not vice versa.

I wonder, as a PP asked (since you are obviously dedicated to training the dog, and it seems to be well trained in other respects) what do you do when the dog harms the children? Has anything been tried unsuccessfully? or with partial success?

Despite the difference in our opinions on the concerns over human vs animal well being, I agree w the PP that you should probably rehome the dog, but IMO, it is for the safety of your DC, not the puppy, who is already being treated very well, as far as I can see. I wouldn't keep an animal around children that harms children. Period.

PM me, if you like, and I can share our GP story.

[SoulCakes]

I'd have to see the behavior to really make a call, but our eight-month-old border collie still jumps and nips when my daughter gets really excited. We're still working with him. He is showing other alpha behavior with her, but nothing dangerous, and it's getting better. He's still a baby, too, like your puppy is.

Does she respond when you get onto her about nipping or pushing over the kids? Honestly, I'd be more concerned about her baring her teeth at YOU over something non-food related. (Almost all of my puppies have been food protective when they were little, but it's something they quickly grew out of.)

I'm not clear on whether the puppy is living with you or not. If she isn't living with you yet, it's important that she's constantly socialized around children NOW, before she grows up. Even goldens won't react well to kids if they haven't spent enough time with them. Their child-friendliness is a potential, not a inborn fact.

I would give the puppy some time, some discipline, and more socialization around the kids. See how it goes. If it's not working out, though, or you're just not comfortable with it after some time, then definitely rehome. The stress and potential damage to your children just isn't worth it.

Good luck.

[greenmagick]

I meant to mention too....if you got your puppy from a reputable breeder or rescue, they should be able to help you find help, or will take the puppy back.

If you are sure its aggression and not normal puppy behavior and learning, I would not keep the pup...that is abnormal for a dog so young. Getting a behaviorist to do an eval would be a good idea.

[Baby~Braatens~Mama]

I couldn't afford a trainer either, but did have the time to socialize and train my dog at home. If you are interested, here is a link to Amazon for that book, The Original Dog Bible that helped me so much...