Sassy September Chat Thread - Page 2

[tanyalynn]

I shouldn't kill the kids, right? Right? Cause ugh, this is not going as smoothly as I'd hoped. We are changing the play room into DD's edroom and making the room they shared into just DS's room. I have no idea how DS is going to do falling asleep in his own room, I'm sure there will be problem-solving involved. But keeping DS on-task picking toys up and putting them away is killing me. I will be deeply, everlastingly grateful if the DMG (which should be arriving within a week or so, I think, I ordered from vitacost because I needed other stuff they carry and sadly they don't keep it in-stock all the time) makes it easier to keep him on task. Ugh.

Plus side: if we don't go crazy or start killing each other, we will finish and then we'll have a) pared down the toys considerably, b) created a private space for each child, c) done a lot of sorely needed cleaning, and d) created more room to play as well as more floor space (due to re-arranging the bunk bed and getting rid of some stuff). So that'll be worthwhile, right?

[lil_miss_understood]

Not worth it to kill the kids, Tanya. Definitely worth the frustration you're presently experiencing though (the benefits you described).
I went through the toys in the living room today, washed the floors, went through DS1's clothes with him, did the big ABC floor puzzle with the kids, did a load of laundry, folded 3 loads of laundry and made banana boats for the kids. Spaghetti for supper, with a nice salad. Considering doing something else yet but not sure what.

[Theloose]

I'm feeling your pain, Tanya, only I don't have a great outcome in sight. Dd is... well... let's just say I have about zero interest in eating much in the way of carbs for a loooooong long time. Plus I'm reacting and preschool starts tomorrow. Not only am I nervous for me (meeting/hanging out with all the other parents, it's parent participation) I'm nervous for her (she's been in such a needy spot for the past week) and I'm second guessing that it's even a decent choice in the best of situations. I spent way too much time in the grocery store, looking for safe junk so dd can match the other kids Tell me again why we're trying this?



For myself. Apparently me reacting is TOTALLY motivating for me to get stuff figured out. Next task: stress reduction. But I don't even know where to start. As soon as I decide to create a stress-free day, it's a one way ticket to me crying on the bed and feeling completely alone and overwhelmed.

[chlobo]

Start of school stress, so fun.

So middle of last week I realized that DS probably needed to be potty trained for preschool. Hadn't even started. so we are now on a crash course to try and get him trained. But we'll see. We only have a week.

Now, on to a question.

We went to the amusement park yesterday. Kids had a great time. DD loved all the rides. She was way more bold in ride choice at 6 than I was even as a teenager. Anyhow, she did really well at the park, although she fell apart a little at the end when her cousins left without saying goodbye while we were waiting on line for a ride.

Got home, ate & went to bed at a reasonable time.

Fast forward to this morning. She is like a monster. Fighting with her brother, being totally unreasonable. We finally had to separate them by DH dragging her to the store (against her will) & leaving DS home.

What is up with that? Did she deplete some critical body chemical? A stress hormone or something? Any thoughts?

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by chlobo

Now, on to a question.

We went to the amusement park yesterday. Kids had a great time. DD loved all the rides. She was way more bold in ride choice at 6 than I was even as a teenager. Anyhow, she did really well at the park, although she fell apart a little at the end when her cousins left without saying goodbye while we were waiting on line for a ride.

Got home, ate & went to bed at a reasonable time.

Fast forward to this morning. She is like a monster. Fighting with her brother, being totally unreasonable. We finally had to separate them by DH dragging her to the store (against her will) & leaving DS home.

What is up with that? Did she deplete some critical body chemical? A stress hormone or something? Any thoughts?

That's so totally exactly dd, only she doesn't fight with ds yet. Folate and mag were the big ticket nutrients before the milk came back. Have you read the Highly Sensitive Child yet? The suggestion there would be lots of downtime for her to process all the excitement, and the possible biochemical explanation (mentioned in passing) is a small serotonin bucket, that in these highly sensitive kids they just run out of (possibly) serotonin faster.

Could it also be new/unusual junk food from the park?

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by whoMe

That's so totally exactly dd, only she doesn't fight with ds yet. Folate and mag were the big ticket nutrients before the milk came back. Have you read the Highly Sensitive Child yet? The suggestion there would be lots of downtime for her to process all the excitement, and the possible biochemical explanation (mentioned in passing) is a small serotonin bucket, that in these highly sensitive kids they just run out of (possibly) serotonin faster.

Could it also be new/unusual junk food from the park?

We brought all our food. She was going to have a bite of a cousin's blue cotton candy but they left so she didn't get it.

Ok, on the seratonin thing. I'm reading The Mood Cure and I scored high on 3 out of 4 of the questionnaires. And elevated on the other, just not at high.

Anyhoo, as I'm reading through the seratonin chapter I realize that DD reminds me a lot about myself in a lot of respects so that got me wondering (this was before the mega meltdown).

Can kids really be low in brain chemicals? Should I spring for the amino acid test for her? Or just try supplementing some 5-htp? And can "exciting" but fun events run down their seratonin?

Mamafish, I know you've had the uaa for your son. Do you supplement his aa or is it just a data point for how well he's digesting his proteins?

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by chlobo

We brought all our food. She was going to have a bite of a cousin's blue cotton candy but they left so she didn't get it.

Ok, on the seratonin thing. I'm reading The Mood Cure and I scored high on 3 out of 4 of the questionnaires. And elevated on the other, just not at high.

Anyhoo, as I'm reading through the seratonin chapter I realize that DD reminds me a lot about myself in a lot of respects so that got me wondering (this was before the mega meltdown).

Can kids really be low in brain chemicals? Should I spring for the amino acid test for her? Or just try supplementing some 5-htp? And can "exciting" but fun events run down their seratonin?

Mamafish, I know you've had the uaa for your son. Do you supplement his aa or is it just a data point for how well he's digesting his proteins?

Yeah. Dd's UAA were low like mine, but not as bad (this was pre-pg with ds, so on lots of milk). I've been working on the assumption that kids can have low brain chemicals as well - they use the same neurotransmitters and need the same nutrients to make them. And dd responds to folate a lot like I do.

[tanyalynn]

I was a bit older, I think 12-ish, when my anxiety started and I think it was completely biochemical, it wasn't life/family stress. The bouts of depression were a few years later, but at least 3-4 short, intense bouts in high school.

I really don't know how to fix it, though, I took pharmaceuticals for the depression, never occurred to me to do otherwise.

I had more to say but I'm too tired. We did it, the kids are each asleep in their own rooms. Still need to move toys around some, hopefully get rid of more, but lots of vacuuming and moving stuff, I even mopped (!), it was a good day. Tomorrow should be good too--it'll likely be very rainy here, we should get a few inches of rain from Hermine, so a good day to work inside.

Hope everyone sleeps well, I think I'm headed to bed soon. So tired.

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by chlobo

Start of school stress, so fun.

So middle of last week I realized that DS probably needed to be potty trained for preschool. Hadn't even started. so we are now on a crash course to try and get him trained. But we'll see. We only have a week.

Now, on to a question.

We went to the amusement park yesterday. Kids had a great time. DD loved all the rides. She was way more bold in ride choice at 6 than I was even as a teenager. Anyhow, she did really well at the park, although she fell apart a little at the end when her cousins left without saying goodbye while we were waiting on line for a ride.

Got home, ate & went to bed at a reasonable time.

Fast forward to this morning. She is like a monster. Fighting with her brother, being totally unreasonable. We finally had to separate them by DH dragging her to the store (against her will) & leaving DS home.

What is up with that? Did she deplete some critical body chemical? A stress hormone or something? Any thoughts?

Could be chemicals (see below). But it could also be that she doesn't have the tools to recover from massive overstimulation - she's just gotten mature enough to sometimes wait to the next day to melt down. I'm an introvert - it takes me three days to recover from being at a fair, even though I totally love it while I'm there. My daughter goes to sleepovers and has a fabulous time - and is a fragile drama queen for two days after.

Figuring out what she needs to recenter herself might help - if she's an introvert, it's time alone and quiet, for example. We used to put DD in her room with a video, it worked wonders. Now she reads a book and chooses to retreat to her room when she's out of sorts.

Originally Posted by chlobo

We brought all our food. She was going to have a bite of a cousin's blue cotton candy but they left so she didn't get it.

Ok, on the seratonin thing. I'm reading The Mood Cure and I scored high on 3 out of 4 of the questionnaires. And elevated on the other, just not at high.

Anyhoo, as I'm reading through the seratonin chapter I realize that DD reminds me a lot about myself in a lot of respects so that got me wondering (this was before the mega meltdown).

Can kids really be low in brain chemicals? Should I spring for the amino acid test for her? Or just try supplementing some 5-htp? And can "exciting" but fun events run down their seratonin?

Mamafish, I know you've had the uaa for your son. Do you supplement his aa or is it just a data point for how well he's digesting his proteins?

Kids can be low, and they can also be swingy. My son has genes for swingy serotonin and swingy anxiety related stuff. He gets the serotonin ones from me (MAO+, maternally inherited - don't you have that too? In which case, your daughter very well could).

I did supp amino acids for about a month after his first UAA, but when we started the digestive enzymes and I could see food was digesting so much better, I stopped when the bottle ran out. I figured we'd see where the next UAA was at, and his amino acids were much better. However, he was never wildly low on tyrosine or tryptophan - if either of those had been low I would have supped those (they're the precursors to serotonin & dopamine).

So, back to if your daughter is MAO+ - that tends to cause high serotonin - which has a very strong feedback loop and inhibits serotonin - which causes a swing low. We find that serotonin crashes often come on the heels of lots of excitement (e.g. serotonin highs). We've gotten DS relatively well modulated without using 5htp - Yasko suggests frequent small doses to try to have a leveling effect, but they had the opposite effect for DS, and many kids on the Yasko forums. Ashwaghanda has been really helpful, it's supposed to balance serotonin levels, and I've really liked it for DS. Subtle, but effective (best in at least two doses, rather than just a single daily dose, at least for DS).

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

So, back to if your daughter is MAO+ - that tends to cause high serotonin - which has a very strong feedback loop and inhibits serotonin - which causes a swing low. We find that serotonin crashes often come on the heels of lots of excitement (e.g. serotonin highs). We've gotten DS relatively well modulated without using 5htp - Yasko suggests frequent small doses to try to have a leveling effect, but they had the opposite effect for DS, and many kids on the Yasko forums. Ashwaghanda has been really helpful, it's supposed to balance serotonin levels, and I've really liked it for DS. Subtle, but effective (best in at least two doses, rather than just a single daily dose, at least for DS).

iirc, I'm not MAO+, but that bolded part might explain a lot for me... Is there a gears turning smiley?

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by whoMe

iirc, I'm not MAO+, but that bolded part might explain a lot for me... Is there a gears turning smiley?

It works for anyone (big serotonin highs cause crashes), but MAO+ tend to be high serotonin anyhow, so getting high enough to cause a crash doesn't take as much as it does for most - the tipping point is closer.

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

Could be chemicals (see below). But it could also be that she doesn't have the tools to recover from massive overstimulation - she's just gotten mature enough to sometimes wait to the next day to melt down. I'm an introvert - it takes me three days to recover from being at a fair, even though I totally love it while I'm there. My daughter goes to sleepovers and has a fabulous time - and is a fragile drama queen for two days after.

Sadly she's extroverted so down time doesn't help.

Figuring out what she needs to recenter herself might help - if she's an introvert, it's time alone and quiet, for example. We used to put DD in her room with a video, it worked wonders. Now she reads a book and chooses to retreat to her room when she's out of sorts.

She's like a foreign language to me

Kids can be low, and they can also be swingy. My son has genes for swingy serotonin and swingy anxiety related stuff. He gets the serotonin ones from me (MAO+, maternally inherited - don't you have that too? In which case, your daughter very well could).

I did supp amino acids for about a month after his first UAA, but when we started the digestive enzymes and I could see food was digesting so much better, I stopped when the bottle ran out. I figured we'd see where the next UAA was at, and his amino acids were much better. However, he was never wildly low on tyrosine or tryptophan - if either of those had been low I would have supped those (they're the precursors to serotonin & dopamine).

So, back to if your daughter is MAO+ - that tends to cause high serotonin - which has a very strong feedback loop and inhibits serotonin - which causes a swing low. We find that serotonin crashes often come on the heels of lots of excitement (e.g. serotonin highs). We've gotten DS relatively well modulated without using 5htp - Yasko suggests frequent small doses to try to have a leveling effect, but they had the opposite effect for DS, and many kids on the Yasko forums. Ashwaghanda has been really helpful, it's supposed to balance serotonin levels, and I've really liked it for DS. Subtle, but effective (best in at least two doses, rather than just a single daily dose, at least for DS).

I have MAO ++. Twice the fun. What to do, what to do.

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

It works for anyone (big serotonin highs cause crashes), but MAO+ tend to be high serotonin anyhow, so getting high enough to cause a crash doesn't take as much as it does for most - the tipping point is closer.

So what you are saying is that she can have fun but not too much fun?

[Theloose]

Sadly she's extroverted so down time doesn't help.

for us, down time is 'on her terms' time - we try to cater to whatever keeps dd happy, no matter how rediculus. Luckily for us, it's settled into a lot of videos and computer games. If she's extroverted, maybe park time or having a friend over?

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by chlobo

I have MAO ++. Twice the fun. What to do, what to do.

Well, that means you know she has MAO++. You may have developed constantly low serotonin, but it's more likely she swings. Serotonin isn't the only brain chemical that can swing, dopamine can as well. Try watching blink rates when she's calm and not - see if they are different.

Originally Posted by chlobo

So what you are saying is that she can have fun but not too much fun?

I'm sorry, I know it's really frustrating and depressing

Not at all. Just that you need to find ways to manage the crash. Ironically, bananas are a great tool for us (high in dopamine & serotonin precursors). You could try a small dose of 5htp when you see a crash coming (there are some sprays that taste good and act sublingually = faster, that would be great for this).

When you see a crash coming, figure out what helps - if you have two parents at home, will she sit and play a game with one of you, or something? Or can you give her and her brother something separate to do? A bath on her own with candlelight & small treats (we call it "party baths")?

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

Well, that means you know she has MAO++. You may have developed constantly low serotonin, but it's more likely she swings. Serotonin isn't the only brain chemical that can swing, dopamine can as well. Try watching blink rates when she's calm and not - see if they are different.

Oh baby, can she ever swing.

I'm sorry, I know it's really frustrating and depressing

Not at all. Just that you need to find ways to manage the crash. Ironically, bananas are a great tool for us (high in dopamine & serotonin precursors). You could try a small dose of 5htp when you see a crash coming (there are some sprays that taste good and act sublingually = faster, that would be great for this).

When you see a crash coming, figure out what helps - if you have two parents at home, will she sit and play a game with one of you, or something? Or can you give her and her brother something separate to do? A bath on her own with candlelight & small treats (we call it "party baths")?

We totally didn't see the crash coming yesterday. Boy was that train wreck awful.

[mamafish9]

The spray sublingual 5htp should only take about 20-30 minutes to kick in, so you could try that, it might at least help shorten things. And she may recognize feelings inside her that means she's headed that direction (sad, out of sorts, "mad at the world"). It's hard for kids to manage their behavior when they feel that way, but she may be able to flag you it's coming, and help "own the solution" that way?

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

The spray sublingual 5htp should only take about 20-30 minutes to kick in, so you could try that, it might at least help shorten things. And she may recognize feelings inside her that means she's headed that direction (sad, out of sorts, "mad at the world"). It's hard for kids to manage their behavior when they feel that way, but she may be able to flag you it's coming, and help "own the solution" that way?

Just curious, is there anything that can be done to even out the swings so that she doesn't swing? Is that what all the Yasko stuff is supposed to do?

[kjbrown92]

For Daiya people, I emailed them asking about citric acid and xanthan gum. They said they're looking for new suppliers of those because they'd like to be considered corn-free, and they don't know what they're derived from now, but their suppliers can't say that they're not corn-derived. May be why DS, DD2 and I all had a problem with it.

oops, I just ate a pint of Coconut Bliss ice cream (chocolate peanut butter). I guess the kids don't get to try that flavor.

[tanyalynn]

Kathy on the cancer decision-making. Have you ruled out the weird alternative stuff? It's ok to say you have, you're the one who has to be comfortable with your choices, it's not like any of them are fun.

So I am seeing more pregnant women around, and more cute little babies. Baby fever is growing. The spring will be a better time, but it's fun to be excited now.

chlobo on bad days. I often have tiredness, in that over-stimulated/I need downtime, type of way after busy days, if I were a kid it would likely result in some pretty annoying behaviors--but I'm an introvert, and some, I think, is me just needing a significant chunk of time away from people. Wonder how much could be MAO related? I really hope 23andme goes on sale again sometime, I'd love to test at least a few of us.

Shannon, did things go okay this morning?