Sassy September Chat Thread - Page 4

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by JaneS

I would be extremely surprised if you had no other sx given those very low temps. The sx are pretty wide ranging:
www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/long-and-pathetic/

Recently I've found out that the alternative allergy guru in our area has found that there is a high degree of correlation between low thyroid function and his allergy patients. Both DS and I have low temps and some sx other than food intolerances. Both of us show low free T3 and high reverse T3. (These tests are not usually run)

I've been intensively researching the thyroid lately. I have concluded that lab numbers mean nothing... especially since most drs go by the TSH and T4 only. My favorite books are by Dr. Stephen Langer, Dr. Broda Barnes, Dr. Mark Starr and Dr. Datis Kharrazian, all of which describe longtime practice of treating sx ... and going by BBT.

Blood tests do not show what is actually getting into the body's cells, nor do they show whether the cell mitochondria is actually using the hormone once it's there. And the common T4 testing doesn't show conversion to active T3, another common problem. Reverse T3 blocks the receptor but is not used by body.

If there were one book to read to figure out how to treat myself for thyroid, what would it be? Don't have time to read 6. My #s were all within range for everything but I've been wondering a lot lately (especially since the weight gain) if I shouldn't just try treating thyroid.

ETA: That website is down right now. Hope it comes back.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by chlobo

If there were one book to read to figure out how to treat myself for thyroid, what would it be? Don't have time to read 6. My #s were all within range for everything but I've been wondering a lot lately (especially since the weight gain) if I shouldn't just try treating thyroid.

I know my thyroid took a dive at the beginning of this year- I gained 15 pounds in a month, and I was so fatigued I thought I was pregnant (even though I knew I really wasn't.) I think it started after I started supping iodine, which I'm not doing anymore. I think my midwife will run all the thyroid tests if I ask... I should probably do that. But even then, what do I do to fix it? DD had a few thyroid numbers run- TSH: 1.3, TSH Uptake: 27.6, free T3: 4.6 (almost at the top of the normal range), free T4: 1.24. All seemed within range... is there anything that looks off for her?

-----------

Speaking of DD.... I need you guys to help critique her diet. She's eating a ton (imo, for an almost-3yo), but she's still losing weight (although it has slowed down.)
- Breakfast: a 2-serving size bowl of quinoa flakes with a little honey & cinnamon
- lunch: lamb burger, approx 1/4lb raw weight, ~1 medium zucchini fried in lamb fat
- dinner: lamb steak, approx 2/3lb raw weight (w/bones), broccoli- anywhere from a couple bites to a small head; sometimes cooked carrots or cauliflower.
- snacks (1-3 from this list per day, depending on what she asks for): 1/2 can of olives, a small bowl of applesauce, watered-down apple juice, avocado.

That's the normal everyday diet for her. I've already cut back my meat consumption a LOT because she's eating so much more, and frankly we can't afford that much meat for both of us. I'm just not sure what else to add that would be nutrient/calorie dense. blah. I'm going to try another tapioca bread/cracker experiment today, since the allergist said she passed the tapioca trial (I don't think she did, but I'll try anyway.)

[Lady Lilya]

Maybe my low and wide-ranging temps would make more sense if I tell you why I stopped trying to temp. I was getting so little sleep, and so inconsistently (due to the baby, i personally sleep great), that when I would wake up and take my temp I never knew if I had been unconscious long enough to have gotten into a deep sleep. I didnt know if a higher temp by a few points meant any activity in my cycle, or if it meant I hadn't been really fully asleep. I didn't know if a lower temp meant anything or if it was just the result of being so exhausted and not having completed a single sleep cycle in the whole past week.

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

I know my thyroid took a dive at the beginning of this year- I gained 15 pounds in a month, and I was so fatigued I thought I was pregnant (even though I knew I really wasn't.) I think it started after I started supping iodine, which I'm not doing anymore. I think my midwife will run all the thyroid tests if I ask... I should probably do that. But even then, what do I do to fix it? DD had a few thyroid numbers run- TSH: 1.3, TSH Uptake: 27.6, free T3: 4.6 (almost at the top of the normal range), free T4: 1.24. All seemed within range... is there anything that looks off for her?

-----------

Speaking of DD.... I need you guys to help critique her diet. She's eating a ton (imo, for an almost-3yo), but she's still losing weight (although it has slowed down.)
- Breakfast: a 2-serving size bowl of quinoa flakes with a little honey & cinnamon
- lunch: lamb burger, approx 1/4lb raw weight, ~1 medium zucchini fried in lamb fat
- dinner: lamb steak, approx 2/3lb raw weight (w/bones), broccoli- anywhere from a couple bites to a small head; sometimes cooked carrots or cauliflower.
- snacks (1-3 from this list per day, depending on what she asks for): 1/2 can of olives, a small bowl of applesauce, watered-down apple juice, avocado.

That's the normal everyday diet for her. I've already cut back my meat consumption a LOT because she's eating so much more, and frankly we can't afford that much meat for both of us. I'm just not sure what else to add that would be nutrient/calorie dense. blah. I'm going to try another tapioca bread/cracker experiment today, since the allergist said she passed the tapioca trial (I don't think she did, but I'll try anyway.)

I wish I had answers but I don't. My thyroid #s were all within the reference ranges but dang if I"m not exhausted, gaining weight along with a host of other things. Grasping at straws now and that's why I was thinking about testing thyroid. Doing 5-htp trial now and so far it only makes me jittery.

That does sound like a lot of food. How is she digesting fats?

[mamafish9]

Carren, how much 5htp are you taking, and how often? Plain htp, or is there other stuff in it?

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by chlobo

That does sound like a lot of food. How is she digesting fats?

Uhhhhh... fine I think? Let's see... her stool test was fine in the absorption category for fats. Not sure what else to look for.

I should add- she would just eat meat all day long if we let her. We used to share a steak, but she was always still hungry so DP started giving her a whole one. Which I think is a LOT of meat for such a little person... but not sure what our other options are.

[ASusan]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

Speaking of DD.... I need you guys to help critique her diet. She's eating a ton (imo, for an almost-3yo), but she's still losing weight (although it has slowed down.)
- Breakfast: a 2-serving size bowl of quinoa flakes with a little honey & cinnamon
- lunch: lamb burger, approx 1/4lb raw weight, ~1 medium zucchini fried in lamb fat
- dinner: lamb steak, approx 2/3lb raw weight (w/bones), broccoli- anywhere from a couple bites to a small head; sometimes cooked carrots or cauliflower.
- snacks (1-3 from this list per day, depending on what she asks for): 1/2 can of olives, a small bowl of applesauce, watered-down apple juice, avocado.

That's the normal everyday diet for her. I've already cut back my meat consumption a LOT because she's eating so much more, and frankly we can't afford that much meat for both of us. I'm just not sure what else to add that would be nutrient/calorie dense. blah. I'm going to try another tapioca bread/cracker experiment today, since the allergist said she passed the tapioca trial (I don't think she did, but I'll try anyway.)

DS is exactly the same age as your daughter, and he eats just as much, if not more. He is not gaining (maybe 1-2 lbs in the past year), but isn't losing, either. He is getting taller.

Like your DD, he LOVES meat and he will also eat beans (DH calls him Protein Man). Can you include beans (kidney, black...) in her diet? Are refried beans safe? DS can eat almost a can in one sitting if we let him. And they are super-easy to make - use bone broth for soaking water to up the nutrition!

Is she not eating rice or other grain because of allergy restrictions?

Are you trying to get more veggies into her? She seems to be eating a few, (more than my DS), but I am sometimes able to sneak more veggies into a burger or ground meat. So, dice or grind up safe veggies and make them a part of the burger. This will also "stretch" your meat. I put onion, pepper, zuke, and rice into ground beef or lamb.

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

Carren, how much 5htp are you taking, and how often? Plain htp, or is there other stuff in it?

I took 200mg a couple of times but I seemed kind of wired from it. so the ND said to try 400mg. I tried that. She said if I was wired then maybe I was taking too much b12 so I should ease off on that. Then I took a break to do the amino acid test.

I am going to try the 400mg again. I'm sleeping so poorly now its not even funny. I don't really feel like I am getting into a deep sleep. It's weird.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by ASusan

DS is exactly the same age as your daughter, and he eats just as much, if not more. He is not gaining (maybe 1-2 lbs in the past year), but isn't losing, either. He is getting taller.

Like your DD, he LOVES meat and he will also eat beans (DH calls him Protein Man). Can you include beans (kidney, black...) in her diet? Are refried beans safe? DS can eat almost a can in one sitting if we let him. And they are super-easy to make - use bone broth for soaking water to up the nutrition!

Is she not eating rice or other grain because of allergy restrictions?

Are you trying to get more veggies into her? She seems to be eating a few, (more than my DS), but I am sometimes able to sneak more veggies into a burger or ground meat. So, dice or grind up safe veggies and make them a part of the burger. This will also "stretch" your meat. I put onion, pepper, zuke, and rice into ground beef or lamb.

Nope, she doesn't tolerate any other grains (and I'm not sure that she's 100% ok with quinoa either.) No beans either, although I'm going to do another trial soon. She did have a bite of my homemade hummus yesterday and was up all night crying, but it could have been the lemon juice rather than the beans. She actually doesn't mind veggies at all- she's pretty good about eating them. We just don't have a huge selection to choose from. We can't do potatoes or sweet potatoes, which seem like they would be more filling. We always do zucchini and broccoli, every day, and try to rotate in a couple other veggies during the week- usually whatever I can find in the organic section at the time- like asparagus, cauliflower, rutabaga, etc.

[lil_miss_understood]

So she's eating olives but you're not using olive oil? Could you add a little bit of olive oil to her quinoa maybe? It seems to me that her breakfast may be lacking in fats. Or perhaps add some avocado "pudding" on the side? Just something to get some fats in there for her? As well as "tiding her over" longer, the fat should also make some nutrients more available.
I wonder if you could make some "crackers" with just oil, quinoa flour, water and salt? Maybe some sugar (or concentrated/reduced apple juice?) for sweetener to make it a cookie? I know, I know... I need to get some quinoa flour.
I also recommend Susan's suggestion of mixing either quinoa or zucchini (or both) into her lamb burgers to "stretch" it although then I'd want a different "side". Have you tried giving her quinoa as a side for supper or lunch, either plain with salt or cooked in lamb broth? Again, I know you're concerned that quinoa's not safe too, so I completely understand if you haven't.
Also, just a reminder that herbs and spices DO pack a nutritional wallop so any safe ones you have, I would seriously consider using liberally!

Anyway, supposed to be cleaning the bathroom while kids nap.
Chlobo. Sorry you're not sleeping well.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

I know my thyroid took a dive at the beginning of this year- I gained 15 pounds in a month, and I was so fatigued I thought I was pregnant (even though I knew I really wasn't.) I think it started after I started supping iodine, which I'm not doing anymore. I think my midwife will run all the thyroid tests if I ask... I should probably do that. But even then, what do I do to fix it? DD had a few thyroid numbers run- TSH: 1.3, TSH Uptake: 27.6, free T3: 4.6 (almost at the top of the normal range), free T4: 1.24. All seemed within range... is there anything that looks off for her?

I was reading something about if you're low selenium, then taking iodine can make you hypo and vise versa. If you're low in both, you inch them up together. That's where I am right now, I think.

Originally Posted by changingseasons

Uhhhhh... fine I think? Let's see... her stool test was fine in the absorption category for fats. Not sure what else to look for.

I should add- she would just eat meat all day long if we let her. We used to share a steak, but she was always still hungry so DP started giving her a whole one. Which I think is a LOT of meat for such a little person... but not sure what our other options are.

For the meat cravers, first guess is pancreatic support, and the UAA if you want data. 3 months of enzymes later, and I'm finally feeling like it's possible for me t eat too much protein in a meal.

Second day of preschool not as awesome as the first. It was my workday, so dh came too, and we traded off watching our designated area and playing with dd. Dd's reserves were also totally spent, and after 6:30 bedtime with no dinner last night, she was up at 5:30 this morning (but still sleepy). 3:45 nap today, and now ds is going out too. If I were smart, I'd try to go lay down with him. Instead it's time for internet shopping. I found safe ketchup packets!

Thank goodness for no school tomorrow!

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by chlobo

If there were one book to read to figure out how to treat myself for thyroid, what would it be? Don't have time to read 6. My #s were all within range for everything but I've been wondering a lot lately (especially since the weight gain) if I shouldn't just try treating thyroid.

ETA: That website is down right now. Hope it comes back.

One: Starr's or Langer's b/c they both reference Barnes pretty heavily and focus chiefly on treatment with desiccated thyroid hormone. All 3 of those doctors have treated thousands of patients with success focusing on symptoms and not lab tests.

You can try Dr. Lowe's desiccated thyroid or I would bring either of those books in to the doctors you are seeing and start the discussion.

Two: Kharrazian's is a little overwhelming and his treatment relies so heavily on his custom immune supps.... but I do appreciate his take on how getting the thyroid to function doesn't always mean taking thyroid hormone. I'm not sure that he is the last word however, given the long term success and simplicity of the other doctors' approaches.

I came across over and over again in my reading that things like methylation and even nutrient absorption is controlled in some degree by the thyroid. Not to mention symptom after symptom that rang bells for me esp. digestive and chemical intolerance, so I really see it all as chicken and egg right now.

Adrenal is definitely a concern for you too. A thyroid that doesn't work correctly draws on adrenals constantly to raise metabolism and assures the development of adrenal fatigue. If one doesn't tolerate thyroid hormone, the problem is usually adrenal fatigue.

Google cache
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...-and-pathetic/

[chlobo]

So I just realized that i have lumps on my arms. No the underside but the top. Jane is this the product of thyroid problems? Lumpy arms?

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

I know my thyroid took a dive at the beginning of this year- I gained 15 pounds in a month, and I was so fatigued I thought I was pregnant (even though I knew I really wasn't.) I think it started after I started supping iodine, which I'm not doing anymore. I think my midwife will run all the thyroid tests if I ask... I should probably do that. But even then, what do I do to fix it? DD had a few thyroid numbers run- TSH: 1.3, TSH Uptake: 27.6, free T3: 4.6 (almost at the top of the normal range), free T4: 1.24. All seemed within range... is there anything that looks off for her?

If iodine causes your thyroid to tank the chief concern would be Hashi's I believe. JR what do you think?

I no longer think tests are indicative of what the thyroid is actually doing in the body cells. They are a good first step, and antibodies should always be run when you have a good reason to suspect thyroid problems but the major thyroid doctors getting results on symptoms treat with desiccated thyroid. Or the immune system which is the new player on the scene, Dr. K:
http://www.thyroidbook.com/

Have you taken her AM temps? Is she frequently cold? cold hands, feet, back or butt. My DS has low BBT, only grew 1 1/4" last year and is frequently cold not to mention the allergies, respiratory issues and chemical intolerance which also seem to be classic signs of impaired thyroid function.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by chlobo

So I just realized that i have lumps on my arms. No the underside but the top. Jane is this the product of thyroid problems? Lumpy arms?

Wha? opposite the bicep you mean, not near the lymph nodes? I have not heard of mucin being lumpy but I imagine it's possible.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Lady Lilya

Maybe my low and wide-ranging temps would make more sense if I tell you why I stopped trying to temp. I was getting so little sleep, and so inconsistently (due to the baby, i personally sleep great), that when I would wake up and take my temp I never knew if I had been unconscious long enough to have gotten into a deep sleep. I didnt know if a higher temp by a few points meant any activity in my cycle, or if it meant I hadn't been really fully asleep. I didn't know if a lower temp meant anything or if it was just the result of being so exhausted and not having completed a single sleep cycle in the whole past week.

In that case I would do average of 3 day temps, see Dr. Rind's chart:
http://www.drrind.com/therapies/meta...perature-graph

Poor sleep can tank your adrenals big time too.

[Theloose]

Doesn't the thyroid form based on mom's thyroid levels during the critical period of pregnancy? So in theory, isn't it possible that someone's thyroid might never work optimally? Would that have to show up as congenital hypo or might it be what some of us are looking at? Just wondering if this is something worth doing with nutrients alone, or if dessicated thyroid is a better option than it sounds. And why would my thyroid hate me lactating?

[JaneS]

Sorry about the serial posting mamas

Originally Posted by chlobo

I wish I had answers but I don't. My thyroid #s were all within the reference ranges but dang if I"m not exhausted, gaining weight along with a host of other things. Grasping at straws now and that's why I was thinking about testing thyroid. Doing 5-htp trial now and so far it only makes me jittery.

Well I'm reading about how panic attacks and depression also resolve with thyroid hormone in addition to all the other stuff I just posted about so I don't think you are grasping at straws at all.

I've been suspecting thyroid for years for myself and some things have improved over the years with nutrition but some have only gotten worse. That is why I read somewhat obsessively on the subject partly to convince myself since I've been told upteen times by multiple drs it's not my thyroid... but then everything makes perfect sense when I read about the drs who treat the sx, of which I have many, and not the lab tests.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Doesn't the thyroid form based on mom's thyroid levels during the critical period of pregnancy? So in theory, isn't it possible that someone's thyroid might never work optimally? Would that have to show up as congenital hypo or might it be what some of us are looking at? Just wondering if this is something worth doing with nutrients alone, or if dessicated thyroid is a better option than it sounds. And why would my thyroid hate me lactating?

Now THAT'S a discussion I've love to have right now. Forget dinner with Einstein, Marie Curie and Michaelangelo, I want to get these thyroid doctors in a room together!!

Totally where I'm at right now Shannon. I've chased nutrients for too long I feel. Both me and DS. I still hate to think that lifelong hormone replacement is the answer so that is why the obsession to make sense of it. I do believe in nutrient healing deficiencies, and genetic need for more, and I've seen enormous help from it in past 4 years, but I keep hitting brick walls it seems.

Plus our family hx. One grandmother died of heart attack at 55, a classic hypoT condition for a woman. The other one was on lifelong thyroid hormone. My father has nodules. Aunts on both sides clearly have hypoT sx. And the bells going off with sx after sx for me...

Today I noticed my knees sometimes crack "like ice" when I go upstairs. Another HypoT sx according to Langer/Starr/Barnes.

The only mention similar to this "being born w/ a hormone deficiency" I've read I think in Wilson's adrenal fatigue book is that the fetus will support the low adrenal mother with their adrenal hormones and thus be born fatigued. And the mother will feel better when the fetus's adrenals come online in second and third trimester. Which describes our situation perfectly. DS's very agitated self, reactiing to foods, touchy personality, also speaks of adrenal fatigue.

I don't imagine that the thyroid would be any different (the fetus's hormones supporting the mother's low thyroid function).... plus the theory that ALL adrenal fatigue in fact starts with a low thyroid.

I've thought about this a lot. I also wonder that bm protected him in some way from worse hypoT sx is that he was also getting thyroid hormones in my bm for several years? Because his brain is not effected. I take what blessings I can.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by whoMe

And why would my thyroid hate me lactating?

Forgot to respond to this... what directs prolactin production? The only thing I recall is that low thyroid women often have problems producing enough bm. I never did (only when my calcium dipped low when went dairy free).

all the hormones are intimately connected so I wouldn't be surprised if there is a good explanation. If you look into it, lmk.