The "but my baby slept right through his circ" argument

[knitted_in_the_wom]

I just came across an "interesting" policy statement on the AAP website: http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...ics;118/5/2231

It is about pain management in neonates. Read this paragraph:

When pain is prolonged, striking changes occur in the infant's physiologic and behavioral indicators. During episodes of prolonged pain, neonates enter a state of passivity with few, if any, body movements; an expressionless face; decreased heart rate and respiratory variability; and decreased oxygen consumption, all suggestive of a marked conservation of energy.

Sounds like the doctors should KNOW--via their professional organization's position paper-that a passive response during circumcision most definitely CAN indicate severe pain.

[Devaskyla]

They know, they just don't care. & nurses are trained to tell parents the baby slept through it; whether they went into shock or screamed until they turned blue.

[hakunangovi]

The doctors know full well - but as Devaskyla pointed out nurses are ordered to cover up what really goes on so that the myth that it is no big deal, that "babies don't feel pain" etc gets promoted. If the general public really knew what goes on I have to believe that RIC would come to an abrupt end, and many doctors would have some explaining to do about why they lied.

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by Devaskyla

They know, they just don't care. & nurses are trained to tell parents the baby slept through it; whether they went into shock or screamed until they turned blue.

Yep. When dd2 was in the NICU we saw three babies come back after being circed. Every one of them screamed like I have NEVER heard babies scream before. (One to the point he actually QUIT BREATHING!!) Every time the nurses told the parents "Gee, I don't know why he's doing that, this NEVER happens!" BS!!!

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

Yep. When dd2 was in the NICU we saw three babies come back after being circed. Every one of them screamed like I have NEVER heard babies scream before. (One to the point he actually QUIT BREATHING!!) Every time the nurses told the parents "Gee, I don't know why he's doing that, this NEVER happens!" BS!!!

(bold mine). I wish you spoke up though. perhaps it would make both--nurses and the parents--think.

[K703]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

Yep. When dd2 was in the NICU we saw three babies come back after being circed. Every one of them screamed like I have NEVER heard babies scream before. (One to the point he actually QUIT BREATHING!!) Every time the nurses told the parents "Gee, I don't know why he's doing that, this NEVER happens!" BS!!!

This is why my mother decided not to circ any male children of hers (including me) - when she had her first-born (a girl) she heard a baby screaming like she had never heard before and the doctor said "He's just being circumcised"; after that she decided that no sons of hers would be circed.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by K703

This is why my mother decided not to circ any male children of hers (including me) - when she had her first-born (a girl) she heard a baby screaming like she had never heard before and the doctor said "He's just being circumcised"; after that she decided that no sons of hers would be circed.

you are a very lucky guy (as is/are your sexual partner(s)!
don't forget to tell your mom just how happy you are about her being such a smart protective mother!

I once overheard two mothers talking on the playground. One, who had two sons, said that with her first she witnessed his circ and it was so traumatic that she couldn't sleep afterwards and almost lost her milk. SOOO, she said that with her second one she did not WATCH ...how is that for a "mama-bear" story ?

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

(bold mine). I wish you spoke up though. perhaps it would make both--nurses and the parents--think.

First of all, I was a little more concerned with whether or not my own baby was going to live or die, or it she did survive, if she was going to be in a permanent vegetative state her entire life. Forgive me for being in a fragile emotional state and not being up to starting crap with other NICU parents. Secondly, if seeing your baby in that amount of pain isn't enough to "make you think," then some nosy busy body telling you what a crappy parent you are certainly isn't going to.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

First of all, I was a little more concerned with whether or not my own baby was going to live or die, or it she did survive, if she was going to be in a permanent vegetative state her entire life. Forgive me for being in a fragile emotional state and not being up to starting crap with other NICU parents. Secondly, if seeing your baby in that amount of pain isn't enough to "make you think," then some nosy busy body telling you what a crappy parent you are certainly isn't going to.

I'm so sorry for what you've gone through with your dd...must have been so scary (HUGS). You are right, I just didn't take into concideration the circumstanses. Sorry.

[party_of_seven]

It is all BS. My 3mo had some breathing problems after his uncomplicated homebirth. (google TTN if you want to know more) At 24 hours old we took him to the ER, and I knew we were in for a complete septic workup. My poor baby boy was cathed for urine, got an IV and had blood draws, and then it took them 4 shots at a lumbar puncture to get the spinal fluid they needed.

I was a hormonal mess. I could not stay in that room and watch them do what they did to him. Thank goodness my dear sweet husband did. I stood right outside the door and cried while he cried. By the time they were done with him he was wiped out. He was all hooked up to monitors and wires and he just laid there sound asleep. If I hadn't heard what had gone on for the last 30 minutes you could have fooled me and told me he slept through it. He continued to sleep for the next 3 hours like nothing had ever happened. I was of course heartbroken because I knew why he was asleep. I also know that circed babies do it too.

I can't imagine the pain and horror a baby goes through being circumcised. I don't know how doctors sleep at night after doing it either.





C- mama to 3 healthy happy intact boys and 3 girls too with all of their parts and pieces.

[ancoda]

I knew a lady growing up who swore it didn't bother them a bit, because her husband watched while their son got circed and he cryed for a moment and then fell right to sleep. Umm... more likely he passed out from the pain, but she would not even consider that option.

[Qbear'smama]

Reading this thread gave me chills

[TXmom2]

I too witnessed my son's circ. I WILL NEVER circ another child of mine.

It was the most horrible thing ever. He shrieked liked I'd never heard a baby shriek and then promptly "fell asleep". The doc said that they sometimes cry at first from the cold/being strapped down, but usually sleep through it. Yeah, what a load of BS!!

[MommytoB]

Somehow I just wonder how a mom can hear her son's screaming cries and still do it again to her next son's ?

Also, how can a circ'ed dad who hears the screams of his first son and even says it is disgusting to watch stating how glad he didn't have to go through that with his daughter will still sit & continue to watch his son's get circ'ed ?

[bugmenot]

So, if babies don't feel circumcision pain, I should be allowed to smack my baby's head as hard as I want to, right?

I mean...they don't feel pain, RIGHT?

(Sarcasm obviously intended.)

[serendipity22]

I'll believe a baby can sleep thru a circ when i see a video of it.

As such videos are unlikely to exist, I don't believe its possible.

[Night_Nurse]

I've heard plenty of people, including fellow nurses, say they've seen babies sleep through a circ. Personally, I've never witnessed it. Not even close.
I do think the times I've seen pain relief used that it's lessened the pain a bit, but never eliminated it.
And yes, most babies do fuss and cry a bit when you unwrap and restrain them but the cry is completely different once the clamping and cutting start.

[Night_Nurse]

I wanted to add: I have seen a baby or two "sleep" after it had an initial bout of crying (I now understand this to be shock) but I've never seen a baby just not cry at all or "sleep" undisturbed through the whole ordeal.