Caught teenager spanking younger sibling...

[vindemiatrix]

So I left my 16yo stepson C. to watch his younger siblings (aged 14, 9, 5 and 3) for an hour while I went to see my mother in the hospital. When I arrived home, he had B., the 5yo, over his lap and was spanking him hard enough to leave red handprints.

It turned out that B. had bitten S., the 14yo, hard enough to draw blood. C. has always been very protective of his sister (S. is his only full sibling), and completely flipped out. He admits that, and acknowledges that he went overboard, but says that B. deserved a spanking and that he (C.) knew that B. wouldn't get one if it was left up to my wife and I.

I just don't know what to do. C. won't budge from his beliefs, and the more I look at S.'s hand, the more I'm starting to see his point.

Basically I have three questions. First, how do I discipline C. effectively? Second, how do I handle my doubts about gentle discipline? Third, do human bites need tetanus shots? The bite's right at the base of the thumb, and it looks kind of infected.

[tinuviel_k]

I don't have time to do a big reply or answer most of your questions, but I do want to say that it is very important that you NEVER EVER leave your stepson C without supervision with the younger children again. He acted in a very emotionally volatile way and laid hands on a younger child who is unable to defend himself. He is not a parent, not a guardian, and therefor what he did is abuse, plain and simple. If this had happened to a child outside of the family that he was babysitting then the parents would be completely in their rights to call the police.
He has shown that he is unable to be responsible for his siblings, plain and simple.

[lynsage]

It doesn't matter what C's beliefs are, he is not authorized to assault your child. If anyone in your house is going to be doing any spanking, it should be B's parents and ONLY B's parents. For the record, I am anti-spanking across the board, but even in families that DO spank, there is no reason a teenaged sibling should have spanking authority. The kid even admits that he lost his temper and flipped out, and it's my understanding that the spanking "experts" do not advocate spanking under those circumstances.

I would want to know EXACTLY what was happening when the bite occurred, in any case- I doubt your 14 y.o. was just innocently sitting there minding her own business and the 5 y.o. walked up and bit the living hell out of her hand for no reason. And even if B did, further violence is NOT the answer to violent behavior in a child.

If C knew you wouldn't want the child spanked and did it anyway, he should NEVER be allowed to supervise the other children again. I wouldn't have a babysitter in my house who made up their own rules and didn't respect mine, and in the case of a sibling I would immediately ban them from watching the other kids and discipline them for going against my rules. I would explain to C. that no matter what his beliefs about spanking are, it is not his place to make that call for anyone else's children, and that you will adress B's behavioral issues however you see fit as B's parent.

If you're having doubts about GD, I would do some more research and talk to other GD parents. Also, really take a look at your family life and sincerely ask yourself if GD is being consistently used in your home. I find that for myself, when GD is being done consistently and with a positive attitude, it works, and when yelling, threatening, etc. start to creep in, that's when DD's behavior starts to go off the rails.

It's my understanding that tetanus shots are only called for in the case of deep, severe puncture wounds. If you would vaccinate him on the advice of a doctor, I'd call your pediatrician and ask.

[One_Girl]

I don't think what he did was abusive or that he needs to never be alone with the kids. I do think that when you leave siblings in charge of siblings you open yourself up to more problems than you do when you hire a teenager to babysit. I hated babysitting my brother and wasn't that nice to him, my mom's sister was the same way with her siblings, and I have heard stories from other people about what goes on when siblings babysit. Siblings live with each other day in and day out and are easily pushed over the edge by each other, especially when a favored sibling is hurt by one of the siblings not currently in favor. I don't think you need to do anything to punish your teenager if you didn't set up clear rules about what he can do for discipline when he is in charge of the kids and what he can't do. If you are going to leave him in charge of the kids again you need to make clear boundaries and tell him specifically what he can and can't do when he is in charge. Even then you won't know if he is doing those things, especially if he isn't choosing to watch the kids. I suggest that you don't leave anyone with the biting five year old unless you are absolutey certain that they are equipped to handle that kid of violence without resorting to any ungentle discipline. A teenager is not the kind of person who can handle that, especially when they resent the child of your new wife and are tired of watching their loved ones getting hurt.

[katelove]

As far as the bite goes, I would get it looked at if you think it is getting infected. Human mouths usually contain a lot of bacteria and a bite can get infected easily. This is of particular concern if it is overlying a joint - I believe you said the bite was at the base of the thumb? - as the infection can spread to involve the joint which makes the whole thing much more serious.

[NiteNicole]

It is very very difficult to be the family babysitter - all the responsibility, none of the authority and the other kids know that if something goes wrong, the babysitter is going to take the blame. Also, that is too many kids for one child to watch and it sounds like you already have some complicated dynamics among the children. It also sounds like your children might feel like someone is playing favorites? And is it possible the older two were spanked and the younger kids aren't?

In my opinion, instead of punishing anyone you need to have a family meeting that no one will be doing any hitting and biting. If you're going to continue to ask your oldest to babysit your younger kids, then you all need to come up with a plan for keeping order when you're not there. Obviously your sitter can't spank, make sure everyone knows what he CAN do (or that he'll keep track for you to deal with it when you get home) and back him up!

I would also make sure that the biter knows that no, he should not have been spanked - but I'd also make sure that the NO BITING message didn't get lost. If S is regularly being bitten or hit by the five year old and to C it doesn't look like anyone is dealing with that, you're probably going to continue to have some hostility there.

[nextcommercial]

Five is too old to bite. Especially that hard.

The 16 and 14 yr old are probably not really ready to be left in charge of the younger ones. Maybe they would be wonderful babysitting other kids, but babysitting your own siblings is a lot harder than other kids. Siblings tend to push all the buttons, and the 16 yr old isn't ready for that yet.

I wouldn't punish anybody. Your 16 yr old needs to be told Once.. and very firmly that we don't use spanking, then make sure you never leave him alone with them again. He'll understand why.

The five year old, needs to be talked to alone to find out why he bit. Five year olds don't bite... so, why did he? It would make me angry that he bit, but I'd really assume he had a good reason. What was going on in the house that it went bad so quickly? Were the older kids tormenting the younger kids?

I'd also ask the other little ones (three year olds are AWESOME at telling all the good details) Find out what really happened, THEN decide what you need to do about all the kid's behavior.

[ImaSophie]

Originally Posted by NiteNicole

It is very very difficult to be the family babysitter - all the responsibility, none of the authority and the other kids know that if something goes wrong, the babysitter is going to take the blame. Also, that is too many kids for one child to watch and it sounds like you already have some complicated dynamics among the children. It also sounds like your children might feel like someone is playing favorites? And is it possible the older two were spanked and the younger kids aren't?

In my opinion, instead of punishing anyone you need to have a family meeting that no one will be doing any hitting and biting. If you're going to continue to ask your oldest to babysit your younger kids, then you all need to come up with a plan for keeping order when you're not there. Obviously your sitter can't spank, make sure everyone knows what he CAN do (or that he'll keep track for you to deal with it when you get home) and back him up!

I would also make sure that the biter knows that no, he should not have been spanked - but I'd also make sure that the NO BITING message didn't get lost. If S is regularly being bitten or hit by the five year old and to C it doesn't look like anyone is dealing with that, you're probably going to continue to have some hostility there.

I agree with this, and I also would not say five year olds NEVER bite either my oldest was five when he bit his brother who is three years younger then him. Sometimes even five year olds forget to use their words.

I also would not be so quick to blame the older kids for the younger sibling biting either (as some of the posts in this thread seem to be doing). My four year old is more likely to start aggressive behavior then my 8 year old, and he is also the one more likely to get in the 8 year olds space while they are playing. He has a more dominant personality then my oldest.

Have a family meeting and try talking with each other to see what went wrong and how can it be fixed. Listen to your 16 year old because this issue seems to go deeper then just this one incident and you don;t want this festering in your family.

ETA: IMO and in my home there is never a good reason to resort to violence. Yes it happens because siblings fight but no matter the reason there is never an excuse. We quickly nip that excuse in the bud every single time. Use your words, and ask us for help if something is going on. We try to let them learn by natural consequence but harming each other is never ok.

[friskykitty]

Yes a tetanus shot may be necessary. Human bites are incredibly nasty.

I don't think it's ok for the 16 year old to spank. But I would just not put him in that situation again. I think that would be plenty of punishment.