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How can you pass your child off to an abusive ex/ bad father?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I noticed many people on this forum have XH who were abusive or unhealthy to be around. If you divorced because your husband was an unhealthy person to be around, how do you bring yourself to pass your children over to him for shared custody to "fend for themselves" against him?

How do you talk to your children about his behaviors with out hurting them even more by saying bad things about their father? How do you handle the situation in general? What has been your general experience with an abusive XH and as an X and as a father? Any regrets about leaving and having to share custody?
post #2 of 19
Well, when I left, DD was 14-15 months old so there was no discussing things with her. Since her birth, XH had only been alone with her for 20 minutes tops, and had never gotten up at night for her. He was of the opinion that she should just be put alone in a separate room and left to CIO, despite the fact that she'd been exclusively breastfed and had coslept since birth. Needless to say, I was freaked out about leaving her alone with him for any length of time, not to mention overnights, which he pushed for from the start, stating that it was his "right".

And FTR, my XH was/is a functional alcoholic, a sometimes cocaine user, verbally and emotionally abusive, with some serious anger problems (breaking things, throwing things, yelling/swearing, denigrating, cutting himself, punching brick walls, etc). He has 4 biological children with 4 different women, and he pays ZERO child support to any of them.

At first, I fought very hard and very stubbornly for supervised visitation, insisting that he had no experience being left alone with DD. Since we were still in the initial stages of separation, and since he hadn't been abusive towards DD, there was no legal justification for supervised visitation...so I supervised myself, despite how uncomfortable that made me. This was without a doubt the toughest part because I had to see XH who kept trying to convince me to give into what he wanted. This is when I went to Al-Anon the most, learning how to enforce my boundaries and to stop being afraid of him.

Generally, I went over to his place after work, once a week, picking DD up from daycare and having dinner with XH and DSS. Usually, by 6:30 pm., XH was already angling for me to leave, probably so he could drink. A few times, he would pick DD up from daycare, but that rapidly died out considering he was super lazy and didn't like lugging her around in the subway (he has no car). On week-ends, I'd come over to his place with DD and spend a few hours there. Gradually (and because I had no choice legally), I'd leave her alone with him for 20 minutes, then 30 minutes, then an hour, always being within cell phone range. In the beginning, I'd just walk around the neighborhood. Of course, XH was trying very hard to prove himself a worthy dad, so he never called me. Eventually, we worked our way up to 3.5 hrs, which turned out to be XH's max. He simply couldn't deal with DD for longer than this.

During this period, I quietly continued documenting the numerous missed visits, the ones cancelled at the last friggin minute or the ones shortened because XH "had things to do". There were also some clear instances of neglect; a few times, DD came back to me soaked in pee, unchanged for the entire visit, dirty, hungry and once she was covered in dried blood after "an accident on the playground". Also, from the start, I facilitated all visitation, driving DD there and back, providing a bag with food, diapers, and wipes, because I didn't trust XH to do what was necessary for DD.

It took patience and lots of vigilence, but I slowly built my case. When it came time to go to court for custody, I had tons of proof that XH wasn't interested in shared custody, nevermind overnights of any kinds (despite stating repeatedly that he had raised DSS on his own which proved that he was good father...I won't talk about how messed up poor DSS is because of his dad). Since XH was afraid or too lazy to go to court, I obtained sole custody by default; XH was granted that same 3.5 hrs a week he always got. Obviously, XH's fear of the authorities played in my favour in my case.

In the meantime, I relied on the support of family, friends, a counsellor and Al-Anon to get through leaving DD with XH. I kept communication to the very bare necessities and through email as much as possible. Whenever XH became unpleasant at drop-offs, I'd bring my dad with me and then suddenly he couldn't act like a UAV. It worked rather well. As for DD, I did my best to always encourage her enthusiasm to go see her father, and always remained cordial in front of her. When her behaviour was off after visitation, I'd shower her with attention.

Eventually, XH became confrontational with me, and since I had been granted discretion over visitation, I told him he couldn't see DD without letting me a) see where he was living and what conditions his apartment was in, and b) introducing me to whomever his roomates were at the time. This caused a huge tiff between us and it resulted in XH not seeing DD anymore. It's been 4 months since he's seen her.
post #3 of 19
My situation is not as bad as other women here - my ex was abusive to me but not our son. I am actually almost completely comfortable sending DS with his dad for a weekend.

But, the fact is, we have to. And so we do. If we didn't, we would have a hell of a time convincing a judge we weren't doing something bad, and could be held in contempt of court, or worse, have custody flipped for denying access. We have had to realize that we can do what we can, and we can do the best we can and thats all we can do.

There are ideals, and then there is reality. We've all had to face reality, and its not always easy.
post #4 of 19
If you divorced because your husband was an unhealthy person to be around, how do you bring yourself to pass your children over to him for shared custody to "fend for themselves" against him?

It's a great question and one I'm really surprised I haven't heard more among divorced mothers that I know. I know for me it's been a big problem. It doesn't seem right that I can "get rid" of ex because I don't trust him, but then send the most precious person in my life with him, unsupervised. I should clarify that I don't think my ex has been abusive to our child - but he was to me in the past and he is not a healthy person to be around (undiagnosed mental issues, of that I am sure, not to mention other things). The way I deal with it is to figure that at least this way (divorced, and I have custody), I have greatly reduced my child's exposure to him. I shudder to think what everyday life would have been like, with ex around all this time.

And now that my son's getting older, I do sometimes address the way ex acts, as I would if ANYone that crossed our paths acted rude or belligerent... and try to be careful to address the behavior, not the person.
post #5 of 19
Because if we don't willingly do so, often with a smile and not an inkling of parental alienation, we'll have to pass them off for full physical custody. If you refuse the visitation, and the other parent brings that to court, you will likely lose physical custody entirely. The courts demand it, and our children get to make the decision about their father's involvement in their lives for themselves. Unless there is a real danger that meets quite a high standard, we can't do anything.

And being asked just how we can do that? It's often insulting and implies we're doing so willingly, or that the things that occurred within the confines of the marriage weren't really that bad. The number of unhappily married women who have stayed in marriages JUST to be there and prevent these unsupervised visitations is huge. I was one, for years.

We do it because we legally have no choice, and ethically and morally, we have almost no choice as well.
post #6 of 19
I am very fortunate in that my kids' dad is doing much better than he was when we were together. His drinking has decreased greatly. He has been going to therapy for probably over a year now and seems to be getting a lot out of it. When a conversation gets heated between us, he does sometimes get loud, but quickly simmers down and immediately apologizes. When he is in an "I hate the world and everything sucks" mood, he quickly recognizes that he is venting and states that he didn't mean to take it out on me. He also has no interested in shared custody and prefers to visit the kids for about 24 hours weekly, which means that I have a lot of control over their environment and that there isn't the forbidden fruit mystique about him and they are getting old enough to see their dad's faults and to understand his struggle.

It is so not ideal and I could choose to be a lot more irate and concerned than I do, but really we've gone from scary to approaching good enough that I feel okay about their relationship with their dad at this point in time AND I do monitor their reactions, his moods, and talk them through things as best I can without bashing (and it's a fine line between "Your father is such a UAV!" and "I feel so frustrated when your dad does X because then Y happens. I wish that he could be aware of this and do things differently because he makes life harder than it needs to be and he suffers because of it.")

It also helps that I have changed my life and ways of thinking so that what he does doesn't pull the rug out from under me like it used to. If he yells, it doesn't mean that what he says is true. If he complains about life sucking, it doesn't mean that it's my job to fix it for him. And I dont' know what helped (therapy? my detachment? maturity?) but he is starting to see that a lot of his struggle is internal rather than extermal.
post #7 of 19
mine is a different case. he was unhealthy around me - not his dd.

however i have also made it sure like pp said that i dont overstep ex's limit of parenting time. over the years his timing has gone up as and when he felt comfortable with the amount of parenting.

ex is still verbally abusive to me. i never badmouth him, but dd sees what he does.

my friend was in a bad, bad situation, where she and her dd used to walk around the streets at night because her dh threw her out. she finally left when she feared for her dd and her life, but only after she had gotten enough 'ammunition' so that her dh could have a few hours of visitation. then later as her dd grew older and was able to stand up more for herself she negotiated time with him.

the thing is that i have realised working with DV children - unless it was a bad BAD case - most children even knowing how bad their parent is - be it dad or mom, DO want to work out a relationship.

i personally feel though in such cases its not the parent that fails the child. its the justice system. you dont send your child because you want to, its coz you have to. inspite of all the facts you have gathered about your ex the judge could believe the father and not the mother. even if the father is sexually molesting the child and drawing blood. inspite of the physical evidence.
post #8 of 19
ITA with the previous post...

Sadly, unless there is clear, repeated and proven abuse done *to the child*, the courts these days will rule in favour of granting the other parent the RIGHT to see the child. It doesn't really matter if a man has a criminal past (unless he's a registered pedophile), what matters is what will impact the individual's ability to parent responsibly...not that he or she is an UAV and treated his or her former spouse poorly. My lawyer had to repeatedly tell me that the relationship between the parents is entirely separate from the relationship between parent and child.
post #9 of 19
Or like my lawyer has told me, we just have to wait until he truly harms the kids before we can get custody changed.
post #10 of 19
I'm afraid that this will be my situation with my newborn, come January.

post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lah7 View Post

And being asked just how we can do that? It's often insulting and implies we're doing so willingly, or that the things that occurred within the confines of the marriage weren't really that bad. The number of unhappily married women who have stayed in marriages JUST to be there and prevent these unsupervised visitations is huge. I was one, for years.

We do it because we legally have no choice, and ethically and morally, we have almost no choice as well.
I am sorry. I hope I didn't insult you with this question. I don't mean it as a judgement so much as wondering how you cope practically and emotionally. I am now in an unhealthy marriage and am trying to get as much perspective as I can so I can decide how to proceed in my own situation. I understand many of us are in difficult situations and have to do things a certain way even if we don't like it. I wishyou the best.
post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by chimomma View Post
I am sorry. I hope I didn't insult you with this question. I don't mean it as a judgement so much as wondering how you cope practically and emotionally. I am now in an unhealthy marriage and am trying to get as much perspective as I can so I can decide how to proceed in my own situation. I understand many of us are in difficult situations and have to do things a certain way even if we don't like it. I wishyou the best.
I cope practically and emotionally by loving my child as much as I can when he's with me. I make sure that he has a routine, stability, love, and as many cuddles as he'll allow me to give him. I make sure that he is physically and emotionally safe with me, I hope that he grows up knowing that he can tell me anything and everything, but that I will respect his privacy too. I simply parent the best that I can, and am constantly trying to grow as a person, and be happy. I want my son to know that I love him, that I am happy I have him, and that I will do anything for him. He deserves at least one parent who will drop everything to be there for him - and it sure as heck isn't going to be his dad.
post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by chimomma View Post
I am sorry. I hope I didn't insult you with this question. I don't mean it as a judgement so much as wondering how you cope practically and emotionally. I am now in an unhealthy marriage and am trying to get as much perspective as I can so I can decide how to proceed in my own situation. I understand many of us are in difficult situations and have to do things a certain way even if we don't like it. I wishyou the best.
I suggest separating first, especially if you do most of the parenting and he has very little to do with the children by choice. I was separated from my ex for a year before divorcing and in that year he moved from very attentive to deadbeat very quickly. When I did divorce I was able to get phased in visitation with three levels that goes back to the previous level if he skips a visit. The first level is 6 consecutive weeks of four hour visits supervised in my home, then 6 consecutive weeks of 4 hour visits, then the regular minimum visitation (which is 8 hours EOW based on the age she was when we divorced). I documented all of his visits and interactions and always told him he was more than welcome to visit his dd so there was no reason he could use against me. Here it is easier to get supervised visits for abandonment so kids can get to know their parent again than it is for abuse. They even allow people who molest children to have custody of their own kids again and child rapists are allowed to demand that their children visit them in prison (as long as they weren't the ones who were raped). The courts are really screwed up here.
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by thyra View Post
My situation is not as bad as other women here - my ex was abusive to me but not our son. I am actually almost completely comfortable sending DS with his dad for a weekend.

But, the fact is, we have to. And so we do. If we didn't, we would have a hell of a time convincing a judge we weren't doing something bad, and could be held in contempt of court, or worse, have custody flipped for denying access. We have had to realize that we can do what we can, and we can do the best we can and thats all we can do.

There are ideals, and then there is reality. We've all had to face reality, and its not always easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avani View Post
Or like my lawyer has told me, we just have to wait until he truly harms the kids before we can get custody changed.
~ Ditto to these two.

I had spoken to numerous counselors at the DV shelter before I left, and multiple lawyers, trying to figure out exactly what I could do to protect my children.

Bottom line is, STBX isn't "abusive enough". Courts/judges don't care about a Dad emotionally abusing and destroying his kids' self esteem apparantly. There needs to be physical violence to make any sort of case against him having visitation... or rather then he'd likely still get it, but I may have more of a case for supervised.

The system is ridiculous, and it took a ton of will power/mind shifting to realize wether I stay or go, I cannot protect my child 100% from the abuse anyway.

I decided it was better for me to leave so they did not have to deal with it everyday. DD is able to live a much more peaceful life now, and I have to say I have noticed a tremendous difference in her personality.

So now she only sees STBX a few times a month vs everyday. And the times he does have visitation, he has often already cancelled or cut the time short.

All I can do is continuiously document and as my lawyer said, he is digging his own hole if he ever follows through with his threats to take me to court to get more time for either of his kids. He has more than proven he doesn't really care about being an involved Father.

And as the kids grow, they will pick up on it. And they will be able to form their own opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thyra View Post
I cope practically and emotionally by loving my child as much as I can when he's with me. I make sure that he has a routine, stability, love, and as many cuddles as he'll allow me to give him. I make sure that he is physically and emotionally safe with me, I hope that he grows up knowing that he can tell me anything and everything, but that I will respect his privacy too. I simply parent the best that I can, and am constantly trying to grow as a person, and be happy. I want my son to know that I love him, that I am happy I have him, and that I will do anything for him. He deserves at least one parent who will drop everything to be there for him - and it sure as heck isn't going to be his dad.
This is what I do as well. I make sure I find patience, even when I'm beyond exhausted, because I know DD never gets it from her Dad. I love and love and love some more. lol I'm gentle, and I talk to her about everything, explaining our day and what needs to be done, etc. Even though I know she doesn't fully understand now, I know one day she will, and it's good practice. We already share an incredible relationship. I would do anything to protect my DD. And everything I do today/have done, including separating are hard choices I made to try to do the best I can by her, to give her a chance to know healthy peaceful living.

I have no expectations of STBX getting better. And I'm mentally preparing myself for when DD is about DSD's age and when STBX's harping all weekend will likely send DD home an emotional mess. I plan on talking to her and helping her work through her emotions. Not to put her Dad down, but just help her recognize her emotions and come up with ways to work through them, and survive through it. When she is old enough for courts to listen to her... I will support her 100% in whatever she wants to do... as I don't forsee her really wanting to spend a lot of time with STBX when she has a choice if he continues being the way he is.

Love, and understanding, and support... that is all we can do.
post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama View Post
Bottom line is, STBX isn't "abusive enough". Courts/judges don't care about a Dad emotionally abusing and destroying his kids' self esteem apparantly. There needs to be physical violence to make any sort of case against him having visitation... or rather then he'd likely still get it, but I may have more of a case for supervised.

The system is ridiculous, and it took a ton of will power/mind shifting to realize wether I stay or go, I cannot protect my child 100% from the abuse anyway.

I decided it was better for me to leave so they did not have to deal with it everyday. DD is able to live a much more peaceful life now, and I have to say I have noticed a tremendous difference in her personality.
That's a very valid point there.
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by lah7 View Post
Because if we don't willingly do so, often with a smile and not an inkling of parental alienation, we'll have to pass them off for full physical custody. If you refuse the visitation, and the other parent brings that to court, you will likely lose physical custody entirely. The courts demand it, and our children get to make the decision about their father's involvement in their lives for themselves. Unless there is a real danger that meets quite a high standard, we can't do anything.

And being asked just how we can do that? It's often insulting and implies we're doing so willingly, or that the things that occurred within the confines of the marriage weren't really that bad. The number of unhappily married women who have stayed in marriages JUST to be there and prevent these unsupervised visitations is huge. I was one, for years.

We do it because we legally have no choice, and ethically and morally, we have almost no choice as well.

Yes, this. I had to suffer through this for 7 years. How it FINALLY stopped: during a visitation he left her alone at 7 years at a hotel swimming pool while he screwed some random woman, and she was molested. It came to that before the courts took his visitation rights away.
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthy Mama View Post
Yes, this. I had to suffer through this for 7 years. How it FINALLY stopped: during a visitation he left her alone at 7 years at a hotel swimming pool while he screwed some random woman, and she was molested. It came to that before the courts took his visitation rights away.
post #18 of 19
Chimomma, this is a *great* question, and honestly one I wish I would have thought through more before deciding to leave my marriage.

I hate, hate, hate dropping my children off with a man who is selfish, emotionally distant, clueless about safety, won't listen, won't take others needs into consideration, etc. The fact that I cannot protect my children from him is almost unbearable to me. My ds never wants to go, and comes home so unsettled and hurt. It is heartbreaking.

When we were married, I feel that I took the brunt of his dysfunction -- the children were so attached to me and to their grandparents, my friends, etc. that they were pretty oblivious (and therefore happy). Now, they have to take it.

I finally left, ironically, because of my children: I didn't want my son to see this as his model of what a husband and father should be, nor did I want my daughter to take our marriage as a model of what she should aspire to. And, as they got older, I'm sure they would have been less oblivious and more affected by his moods, selfishness, uncaring etc.

Did I make the right choice? I don't know -- I think so, even as hard as it is -- at least they get to live 5 days a week with me with no crazy people in their home! They are also seeing a much healthier model of marriage and parenting (I am remarried to a good guy). But, there have been many, many days where I wish I would have remained as their "buffer" and not been forced to leave them unprotected with him. It is hard either way.
post #19 of 19
"How do you talk to your children about his behaviors with out hurting them even more by saying bad things about their father? How do you handle the situation in general?"

Back to answer this one -- for years I spoke only well of my ex, and just focused on helping the children get what they needed (facilitated by me). Now, my daughter is reaching puberty and is "seeing" everyone much more clearly -- I realize that I would be doing more damage to her by speaking only well of her father rather than telling the truth in an age-appropriate way. For example, she came home from a recent trip with him during which he scared the cr*p out of her by taking her (and my 6-year-old ds) out on high waves in a small sailboat (he is an inexperienced sailor) -- this is typical of his behavior -- and despite her saying repeatedly that she was terrified and wanted to go in, he told her "oh, you'll be okay, you'll get used to it, etc." because, of course, *he* didn't want to go in, he was having a great time (meanwhile my children are holding on for dear life, literally). She said, "Papa really doesn't listen to us." Pause. "I bet this is one reason you divorced him." Looking back, I could have said something else, but in the moment, she was so spot on, I just said, "You're right." I will never turn her into my confidante or try to turn her against her father, but when she's speaking her truth and observations, I will support her in this.

Really, the older they get, the more they are seeing him for who he is, without any help from me. I'm just glad I'm here to model a different way.
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