Gifted toddler? Who are their friends?

[capsgirl08]

Description of son:
I think my son (2 years and 4 months) is gifted. He has been saying words since 6 months, has known his colors very well since a year, has a wide vocabulary. He knows the alphabet very well, and has since just before two. He is starting to decode reading, I think, saying things like "Zuh, zuh. Does zoo start with "z", mama?" He has been talking in full, detailed sentences for a while now. I teach piano, and he told my student's mom, "I saw an old fashioned bug similar to yours [toy] race down the street a few minutes ago." These were his exact words, and this is normal. He actually does chores and really helps and likes it.Lots of energy, never-ending questions about where things come from, why, etc. He can remember things from when he was 1 year old, without any prior discussion about the recalled memory. He is also big into playing his dad's drums, and can keep a steady beat. He loves plunking out songs and singing along made-up songs, but a lot of that might be from what he sees at home. He has been in underwear for several months now.

Does this sound gifted? Or is this just a verbal/aural processor and slightly ahead of the game?

He is also physically big for his age. Born at 10lbs, and always been tall and solid like my husband. He has severe food allergies, but has managed to maintain his weight despite the lack of variety (initially) in his foods. My son loves sports and has been hitting a tee ball in the backyard since he was 14 months old. He is coordinated with kicking a soccer ball and can dribble the ball for a good bit. We have not put him in any kind of classes for sports or music.

So in addition to asking if you think my son fits into the gifted definition --- my next question, regardless of whether or not he "fits" is who your children (and you) were friends with when they were toddlers.

The main group of people I interact with either send their children to private school or homeschool, with more of a classical and Charlotte Mason approach to teaching/learning. The moms are quite competitive. Although I have yet to enroll our son in school or begin homeschooling, I can already sense a lot of competitive feelings. We meet fairly regularly with all these families, and they are often taken aback by our son's verbal and physical abilities. It is especially difficult dealing with moms of boys who are the same age as DS.

Do you seek out your own group of gifted/advanced kids elsewhere? Are the children other gifted toddlers, or do you look for older 4-5 year olds? I wouldn't know where to start. It would have to be from scratch, or I just need to get better at dealing with mom comments.

Thank you for reading. I am beginning to see how different our son is from other children, whose parents have labeled as "advanced" or "gifted" already ... I want to be prepared for the time when he begins realizing that he is different from others, and I want to provide him with an environment that will initially help build his confidence in who he is before he has to go out and do that on his own in various surroundings. Dealing with his food allergies has already been difficult --- like extremely difficult -- with family and some friends. He is already the "different" one because of that, and DS is very aware that what's safe for others is not safe for him.

Well, sorry for the tangent, but thank you for any words of wisdom you may have for a mom who is relatively new at this stuff.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by capsgirl08

Does this sound gifted? Or is this just a verbal/aural processor and slightly ahead of the game?

He sounds like a wonderful boy, certainly precocious in some things. You've already probably noted from other threads that there are different definitions and standards for gifted. Some people only acknowledge giftedness if the child is globally and profoundly gifted on all scales on formal I.Q. testing. Personally, I think that's a narrow definition. At 2 y.o., there's probably not much need to put a label on his abilities. What's important is whether his enthusiasm for learning is being supported and any particular learning needs are being met - and that's true for any 2 year old.

Originally Posted by capsgirl08

The main group of people I interact with either send their children to private school or homeschool, with more of a classical and Charlotte Mason approach to teaching/learning. The moms are quite competitive. Although I have yet to enroll our son in school or begin homeschooling, I can already sense a lot of competitive feelings. We meet fairly regularly with all these families, and they are often taken aback by our son's verbal and physical abilities. It is especially difficult dealing with moms of boys who are the same age as DS.

It can be tough when there is a competitive attitude in a group. It might help to work on some conversational tactics. You can make it a habit of noticing what other children are accomplishing. You can acknowledge that children are individuals who develop differently. You can talk about asynchronous development. You can just say you don't know where he picks stuff up or how he's learned something and marvel generally at how amazing it is that children seem to soak up learning. Or you can just change the subject completely.

If it's an occasional comment, I find it's fairly easy to ignore competitiveness or deal with it. If it's toxic, for example, the parents are pitting the kids against each other, then I try to minimize contact.

Originally Posted by capsgirl08

Do you seek out your own group of gifted/advanced kids elsewhere? Are the children other gifted toddlers, or do you look for older 4-5 year olds? I wouldn't know where to start. It would have to be from scratch, or I just need to get better at dealing with mom comments.

We've never sought out other gifted children for socialization purposes. I have noticed that gifted/bright kids tend to find each other, almost instinctively. On a playground, they'll spend time with the rockhound kid with the cool rock collection and an extensive knowledge about geology. At their drama group, they'll find the other kids who like Shakespeare or Austen or HG Wells. Okay, that last one happened when they were older, not toddlers, but you get the idea.

Rather than intentionally seeking other gifted children, we signed them up for a wide variety of activities. They did music, different sports, art classes, drama classes, and summer camps. They developed different relationships and friendships based on various interests. Sometimes, many times, they connected with other gifted students. Other times, they found common interests and IQ levels were completely beside the point.

Encouraging multi-age friendships is definitely a good idea. I found that my kids enjoyed multi-age groups and played comfortably with older and younger children. They attended multi-age Montessori classes from almost the age of your LO. That environment was well-suited to them, since there was little or no age classification and the focus was on ability. A 3 yo. who was reading was welcome to work on those skills, and it wasn't considered unusual or weird by anyone - including the other students.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you seek out a broad range of activities and opportunities, your child will probably find his way to friends with similar interests and abilities.

[no5no5]

It was really important for me to let go of the idea that DD would stick out in a crowd of kids and recognize that every kid sticks out in his or her own way. One kid is bossy, one kid is shy, one kid tries to make everyone happy, one kid seems oblivious, one kid runs around like a maniac, one kid makes jokes, etc., etc. My kid is verbose and doesn't hesitate to read anything and everything in sight. But somehow, for the most part, it all works out. DD (4) now plays very well with other kids, both much younger (babies, even) and much older (more than twice her age).

But when she was 2, she really just wanted to watch other kids. DH & I joked that she acted the same way whether she was at the playground or at the zoo...just fascinated by all the strange animals. Personally, I think that 2 is too early to worry about finding friends, though of course it's not too early to spend some time with other kids.

And it's definitely not too early to start seeking out parents who aren't so competitive. (Yuck.) We've had success in the more natural-parenting community, but that's our neck of the woods anyway.

[Holiztic]

My DS has always done best with girls a few years older then himself. I have yet to find a situation where this can be a regular thing (hard to ask a mom of a 5 year old girl if you can bring your 2 year old boy over for a play date!) but at playgrounds and such, he always ends up with them! They are the most verbal and the most interpersonal, both of which he is to a tee.

[Aufilia]

At that age, we had a hard time finding kids DD played well with. She spoke very well and would get frustrated with kids her own age, who couldn't communicate near her level. But older kids had more complex interests or much, much better motor skills. The only gifted kid we knew was older, less verbal, and much more physical, so that he wasn't always a good match, either. (It's better now that they can both read.)

For awhile around ages 2-3, she seemed to have the most fun with girls who were 5-9, because they sort of saw her as a living doll and were amused to talk and play with her. She entered preschool in a Montessori 3-6 classroom when she was 2y8m and was the pet of the oldest girls (5-6 years), which was just fine with her. Every time they saw her they would flock over and go, "Ooooh, here's little Vivian, isn't she soooo cute!"

Around 3.5 she started developing some real peer friendships with other kids. She has 3 or 4 pretty good friends from school, and her BGF is the girl (18 months older) who lives next to my parents. The one little boy she's fondest of at school is probably similarly gifted.

My thoughts based on what you've said... I would consider trying to make friends with parents outside of my existing circle. It is tough to maintain friendships with people who are jealous of and threatened by your child.

[physmom]

We've never looked specifically for gifted friends for DD (and we're not even sure if she is because she's way too young to test). However, I DO seek out other moms who are fun and intelligent to talk to and many times they seem to have bright kids too.

Although there has been two times that I have seen her really click with other kids. One was with DH's relatives who have kids at are about 3-10 years older than here. One in particular was great with DD (she's 7 and DD was 1.5 at the time). She was so patient and they played for hours together. But I think that came down to her having a great personality and also enjoying the company of another female cousin (most of the cousins are boys).

The other case was at her daycare, which was a multi-age environment form 0-12. I think that helped her a lot with dealing with kids of ALL ages. She's even much better around babies now and knows how to treat them. She also didn't seem as stressed/hyper in a multi-age environment whereas sometimes if she's only around kids that are her own age she becomes very hyper and doesn't interact as well.

ETA: I forgot to mention. Even other very verbal toddlers are not always the best match. DD has a friend who is very verbal and for some reason DD gets completely shy around her and never speaks! Also DD uses a lot of non-English words, so normally I'm the only one who understands what she's getting at!

[Tigerle]

It is very hard to find children for very verbal toddlers to interact with. Other toddlers seem to be endlessly frustrating for them - understandably, too. We have found that older girls who "babied" DS a bit were good playmates for short times. Now that children his age tend to be all verbal it gets better, but he still plays best with slightly older girls. The children he seems to click best with tend to be the children of my "old friends" from school or university, which sadly live all over the country...and I do not have to fear about competitiveness from their parents, because if the parents couldn't stand precocious kids, they would not have been friends with me!

ETA that I highly recommend to look for mixed-age classes in pre-school or daycare, or if you don't want to do either but prefer to seek out odd classes/activities, to try to enrol at the earliest cutoff to make sure your child gets to interact with somewhat older kids.

[Holiztic]

Yeah, my DS' interest in being babied by big girls has taken on a life of its own. He swoons over them now and is obsessed with mermaids (a clear extension of his love of big girls). He literally doesn't even see the boys, its like they are invisible, but he follows the big girls around the playground like a rat following the pied piper (though now suddenly his attention isn't welcome-- he's 3.5 and looks 4-5 so he doesn't really get babied anymore)

[capsgirl08]

I apologize for the late response to all your helpful posts. (Dealing with fifth disease with DS and just getting out of 1st trimester, ugh ) Anyway, thank you for all of your suggestions on conversation tactics and mixed aged social groups as well as schools. That is something I had not thought of, and when I read your responses, I began remembering all the times that my toddler got along extremely well with one of the 7-year-old daughters of my friend's. You're right, though, as I can see scheduling "play dates" for a 7yo and 2yo would seem different, since the older ones, especially, are likely to be hanging out with other older girls. But still, good food for thought for me. I had asked my son who his friends were, and he immediately said, Mama, Papa, grandparents. Then I prompted him to list anyone else, and he mentioned an older 5yo boy. Funny, as we've only played with him a couple times, unlike the group of mainly toddlers we see regularly.

Thank you, again, for your tips. This is the only board I've read in which I've felt comfortable even asking this kind of a question.

[LittleBattleAxe]

I don't know if this is something that might be useful for you, but my dd, 8, has been enlisted by a friend as a "mother's helper." Dd is really sweet with LOs and very helpful. My friend's toddler is very bright, possibly gifted, but very shy, and he doesn't really play with other kids his age -- he gravitates to older kids, who often don't want him hanging around. So she suggested an arrangement where, one afternoon every other week, dd goes over and plays with her little boy; he loves dd, and they go outside, play, but most of all, interact. She is very patient with him; she is also really good at reading people, and even at 3 he can learn some good socialization skills. This give the LOs mama a chance to do some things around the house, as we all know how ALL three yr olds, gifted or not, have an endless litany of questions and need answers It's been a nice solution for my friend, and dd hopes to babysit when she is older, so considers it good experience from that perspective.

[joensally]

Parallel play is typically the name of the game for kids up to about 4 (ref here:http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/...sequence.shtml). Regardless of ability, kids in the toddler/early preschool range are mostly going to parallel play. Kids in the 4+ category are going to consider a 2 year old a "baby" as that's developmentally appropriate for them. IMO, being around a range of children of varying ages and abilities will provide a rich range of experiences for a precocious toddler.

As for the other parents in your life - there've been plenty of threads here on this very issue. If you're finding your parent peer group hyper-focused on child development and competitive, it may continue to be awkward. You can't really change their orientation. What about trying some baby and me classes to see if you can broaden your mommy group? There are parents out there that are fine with different developmental timelines. I didn't really get to know a lot of parents with gifted kids until school age when DD attended a school with a lot of gifted kids. That's been a mixed bag as well, as some parents kind of fetishize the whole gifted thing. I've found the greatest connections with moms who accept their own kids and genuinely like children generally.

As for attending to your son's future sense of his difference - we have always been explicit with our kids that everyone is unique and has value. This has really helped them to accept their own differences, although it hasn't always been smooth. T'hey're both very open, friendly kids who have friends with a wide range of abilities. We all derive different things from different relationships - intellectual compatibility is only one aspect of interpersonal connection.

[RiverTam]

A Montessori primary program might help somewhat. Our primary classes start at 2.5.

DS2 is very verbally advanced and interpersonally advanced as well, and being around older kids in his primary class helped him very much. Our school has a lower elementary class, so even though he is oldest in his class this year, he still has his older friends to play with on the playground.

[PennyP]

I never particularly went to look for bright kids for my son to play with, but I had an at home daycare and there was this one boy who seems lightyears ahead of his peers to me, but was also the biggest troublemaker and hardest to handle. For some reason, he and my son, 9 months his junior, got along the best of the group. They just bonded like brothers and played so beautifully together, as if they were of the same mind.
Anyhow, I am pretty sure my son is gifted and it seemed to me like her son was as well, and that is probably why they get along, but they weren't buying that their son was gifted (with sensory processing disorder was my "diagnosis"). Anyhow, her son ended up going to a bigger pre-school and had lots of behavioral issues, is in various therapies, and just doesn't have any friends because he always acts out. But with my son? He acts like a perfect angel! Anyhow, in his various testings to try to find out why he was having so many issues, the answer came back was that he is very gifted and has SPD. Exactly what I had predicted, and exactly like my son.
And my son is the only one now that he behaves well with, doesn't have freak outs with, etc.
My son also behaves best with this one boy. Because they "get" each other.

Why am I mentioning this?
I guess my point is that gifted kids will find each other. Expose them to lots of kids and yes, they will naturally gravitate towards each other because they "get" each other.

[Greenmama2]

Originally Posted by Aufilia

At that age, we had a hard time finding kids DD played well with. She spoke very well and would get frustrated with kids her own age, who couldn't communicate near her level. But older kids had more complex interests or much, much better motor skills.

Ditto

My thoughts based on what you've said... I would consider trying to make friends with parents outside of my existing circle. It is tough to maintain friendships with people who are jealous of and threatened by your child.

and ditto

[emmaegbert]

We lived in a neighborhood with a range of ages of kids-- and it was student housing so mostly the kids of graduate students, so, interesting families for the most part. My son was fascinated by older kids, and we were lucky to have a lovely, kind, outgoing boy about 3 years older who lived next door, and he included DS and played with him often. He was a fabulous model!

My son as a toddler and young preschooler was very verbal and gravitated to a couple of similar kids. I particularly cultivated one friendship b/c the boys got along well (the other boy was about 4m younger) and I liked the mom and her approach to parenting a lot. We did a lot of "swapping" and "drop off playdates" from about 18m on, and they got very comfortable with eachother, and played well and learned many relatively advanced social skills together (like taking turns and cooperating, showing empathy).

Other than that though, I didn't see him begin to develop his own friendships or easily play without a lot of adult supervision until about age 3. At that point, one of his favorite playmates, with whom he almost never argued and literally spent hours a day playing with little or no adult input was not a kid I'd describe as the brightest bulb. But the two of them just had a very easygoing relationship and I was happy to see how well they played.

By age 4 he was socializing well with many different types of kids.

I agree with the above advice- do your best to minimize competition with other parents, do you best to truly honor and notice the other kids as well, and do your best to provide your DS opportunities- even very casual ones- to be around a variety of age kids.

Now I have a 16mo DD and I am remembering how poorly kids this age generally socialize with eachother! She does great with older kids though, having had a big brother all this time.

A preschool teacher told me when DS was 2- and it was helpful advice for me- was to remember that just because his verbal ability was advanced, his emotional maturity can still be right along with same-age peers. While I do think we can help our kids manage their emotions differently if they have more language (i/e we can use more tactics to support them) essentially they are still struggling with the same difficulties as their less verbal same-age peers.

[Mizelenius]

Your son definitely sounds gifted to me!  I will say, though, that while he will not get "less gifted" as he gets older, and he may always feel different than many others, he will not stick out as much when he is older.  It seems when children are younger they are busy acquiring skills that are more easily observable, like walking, talking, and reading.  Once they get to the point where others have these same skills, the differences are not as apparent because they are far more complex.

At his age I would not bother much with friends.  I'd hang out with moms you like and hope for the best with their kids, but do this for yourself and not in hopes of any sort of relationship for him.  (It could happen, but I wouldn't emphasize this.)

[widemouthedfrog]

I echo the mother's helper idea. We live in a townhouse complex where dd has an opportunity to play with all sorts of ages, and her best friend is the little girl next door who is 4 years older. The older ones think that the younger ones are cute and give them leeway to be their age, while the younger ones think that the older ones are fascinating.