I NEED to get DS to fall asleep without nursing...

[crunchy_mommy]

...because the 2-4 hours of constant nursing before falling asleep is making me want to wean cold-turkey. I wouldn't, of course, it's just really making me unhappy with our nursing relationship.

He is 19mos old & is *slightly* consistent with bedtime -- by that I mean that he usually goes to sleep at 11:30pm but sometimes goes an hour or so earlier/later. Please no comments on the late bedtime, that is what works best for him.

Anyway. So starting around 7 or 8pm, he asks to nurse every 20mins or so & by 9pm he is basically just constantly nursing. DH & I can distract him with food, books, toys, etc. somewhat but he still asks frequently.

So by 10 or 11pm I am just exhausted, I have a chronic illness & the toll of taking care of DS plus my WAH job & life in general leaves me barely able to roll over (though I don't actually need to fall asleep for several more hours). Lately I have really resented nursing him to sleep. I just want to rest & be left alone, not rolling back & forth while he switches side 500 times then pops up to ask for a story then wants to nurse again for another hour straight. I just want him to fall asleep some other way, preferably with DH (who is kind of clueless when it comes to getting DS to sleep & sometimes not as reliable with things like that) but would also love if he could just cuddle up to me & sleep or something.

I don't mind nursing 50 times in the middle of the night & love nursing him during the day. I just don't want to nurse him to sleep. Or if I do nurse him to sleep, I want it to be 5-10 minutes & then he's asleep -- not hours & hours of nursing.

Maybe this should go in the BF'ing forum but I guess it's more about NOT BF'ing so... I'll put it here.

Any ideas???

[One_Girl]

He may be overtired and having a hard time falling asleep because of that. It sounds like he may be getting snuggly and tired around 8. Maybe try setting a routine and getting him down and nursing by 8 for a few weeks to see if that helps. I know it seems strange to think that a baby would be to tired to sleep, but I found that this was the case with my dd when she was little and I wasn't ready to give up my late nights yet. Once I gave them up and settled her into a routine with an earlier and stable bedtime her sleeping was very predictable and came quickly.

[RiverSky]

I think the only way to help a child fall asleep more quickly at night is to tucker them right out during the day. Does he get outside during the day? What does your week look like? Do you take him to playgroups at the park numerous times a week? Do you take him for walks in a stroller every single day?

I found that at that age (and many other ages, even now that my children are 9 and 11) that if I take the children to a long field trip, a zoo, a big playground outing, riding bikes around a lake, or keep them busy for at least 3 or 4 hours outside, in the fresh air, as many days of the week as I can, then they all fall asleep so nicely and easily at their fairly regular times each night (even sometimes earlier!).

[crunchy_mommy]

Our typical day looks like this:

10:30am - wake, get dressed, eat, etc.
11am - outing -- often a playdate or we'll just head to the playground (or library if it's raining)
1pm - lunch followed by nap
3pm - another (usually shorter) outing -- a walk, errands, meetup, etc.
5:30pm - DH comes home & plays with DS outside for an hour or two
7pm - dinner
8pm - reading together, playing, DS helps DH with chores, etc. and constant nursing
9pm - snack & more constant nursing
11:30pm - bed

So I think he is getting plenty of outdoor time & exercise... I try to keep our daily routine similar to that although the activities vary a lot and sometimes we'll stay home if DS is having a lot of fun playing with something or reading books.

As far as the bedtime (I knew this would come up!) it took me a very long time to figure out that he NEEDS a later bedtime than most kids. We have experimented a ton & the late bedtime is the only way he will sleep well -- otherwise he is up every 30-45 minutes all night long & won't nap. I don't think the constant nursing is a sleepy thing for him. Actually now that I think about it, I think it's partly that he wants to be with me (vs. DH) -- and if he asks to nurse he gets to be with me & otherwise he is mostly with DH because I'm trying to rest or do the things I didn't get to do all day long because he's a very high-needs kid. But then I think he does get a little overtired and instead of going to sleep around 10:30-11pm it takes him another hour. 10 or 10:30 is often when I get very frustrated with all the nursing and I ask DH to take him out of the bedroom for a bit.

[hollytheteacher]

"this too shall pass"

I KNOW it's hard, but with my ds it was crazy hard until he was 2.5 and then i'd put lots of limits on it. Okay time to nurse for 10 minutes and they we are done (or whatever ammount). Then i would just rock him/pat his back/switch with DH etc.

It did NOT make him fall asleep any faster, but it did keep my sanity with the long touchedoutness of it all.

We (gently mother led) weaned 2 months before his third birthday. Now he goes to bed with just back rubbing.

[meemee]

hey mine never went to bed before midnight. if i tried putting her to bed earlier she didnt sleep that well. so i can relate to you with the late bedtime.

has this nursing for 2 hours at bedtime been happening for a long time? because i think it could be related to growth spurt since he is 19 months old - a time when they go thru many spurts - language, emotional and physical.

another thing. is he getting enough exercise in the evening. i have a high needs high energy 8 year old and she still needs quite a bit of physical activity to help her fall asleep.

from what you write it could be a form of separation anxiety too.

no idea how to help you. i know with my dd once her mind was made up there was no way of changing it.

[crunchy_mommy]

Hmm I guess it's been happening in waves... so maybe it is growth-spurt related? He's eating more table food too (when we can calm him down enough to actually eat it... *sigh*)... I do think separation anxiety might be an issue too. We've dealt with it since birth & it has taken many forms... He was/is very mommy-clingy which was fine for his first year, 1.5 years... not that I didn't occasionally get frustrated with it but overall I just dealt. I don't know why suddenly in the last month or two it's really driving me nuts. Maybe it's having seen him NOT be clingy a few times??? I don't know

[LadyCatherine185]

I remember reading several of your posts about your DS. Did you ever look into the sensory disorders? That could be part of the cause for him to take so long to wind down to go to sleep.

My DS has ALWAYS been a sleep fighter and taken awhile to settle to sleep as well, though not to the extent of your son. What I have found helpful is about an hour before "bedtime" we take away anything stimulating... we dim the lights, turn off the tv, etc and sit down and read or draw with him (quiet but interactive with mommy and daddy). Then we have a "family cuddle" time where we all lay together in bed in the dark, before DH holds him on the bed to sleep and I leave. The last couple months though, he hasn't needed quite so much to get to sleep, and usually we just turn down the lights 10-15 minutes before bed and then DH takes him back to his room and he is out in 10 minutes, so it HAS gotten a lot better for us! I think part of it for my DS is teething too, because he is now finished getting all of his teeth in and he isn't fighting sleep as much and is STTN a lot of nights (I did nightwean about 6 months ago).

[crunchy_mommy]

Wow I remember how badly Liam was sleeping, that's amazing that he's sometimes STTN now!!

I think DS is so backwards. Last night I tried to keep the room darker and quieter for a couple hours before bed. That resulted in a total melt-down, even worse than usual, and ironically to calm him I had to turn the lights on, turn on the TV (background noise, he doesn't watch it) and then nurse him 5 more times (this was at midnight or so).

I did think through all the sensory issues stuff but I've been on the fence on it. I suspect *I* have some kind of auditory processing issue and I'm wondering if he has a similar problem. Before/during his freakout last night he was telling me he heard loud noises ("boom boom" i.e. fireworks or loud truck going by) and things like that seem to really upset him. Some aspects of SPD's seem to fit for him & others don't and because he is on track/advanced developmentally I feel like it would be hard to get any professional to take me seriously, but it's still lingering there in my mind.

[LadyCatherine185]

Yes, Liam has become an amazing sleeper over the last 6 months or so! Well, amazing compared to what he WAS doing! He now goes to bed around 9-9:30 and sleeps through until 5 or so, DH goes in to resettle him, and he goes back to sleep until 6-6:30. About half the nights he sleeps all the way through. It did take some work, though. I night weaned via Jay Gordon when he was about 19 months old (when I got pregnant and couldn't stand nursing at night anymore) but I took it slower (about a month). Then after he was down to nursing 1-2 times a night we moved him to his own bed and had DH take over nighttime. He started sleeping longer and longer stretches. It has been WONDERFUL!

Liam is NEVER happy about the lights off/no sound thing at first, but it is because he simply doesn't WANT to sleep, even if he is tired. He doesn't want to miss anything. He is also very ahead developmentally, and I think in his case his little mind is just going and going and going and he doesn't want to shut it off. That is why as his parent I have to look at the situation and see that he is tired and needs SLEEP and we make him to go sleep. He has always had to be "forced" to go to sleep. I can relate to his issues though, because I sometimes have a hard time shutting off my mind and going to sleep, even if I am tired. So I have to make sure that before I go to bed I am doing something relaxing/low stimulation. One thing that REALLY helped Liam was setting a routine to our day. We get out of the house in the morning usually (errands, playdates, park, etc), then come home for lunch around 11, and nap around 12. Bedtime at the same time every night, etc. Have you read Sleepless in America? I can't say enough good things about that book, and I think it would REALLY help your situation. Even if he fights it at first, some kids really NEED a consistent routine to function well and to sleep well..