Motivation to do homework

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

So dd is in the 4th grade now and has homework every night. So far it has been a reasonable amount unless she has a bad day at school and dosnt finish class work. The problem is that it takes her hours (tonight 3+ hours) to finish what should only have taken her an hour max.

She had:
Write spelling words in alphabetical order (I did this for her)
25 subtraction and adding math problems (I did the last 5 for her since she had been sitting for almost 2 hours without doing a single problem)
English 15 sentences with verbs etc. (I gave her the answer to every one she just had to write out the sentence)

I cant keep her focused she jumps up and down and wants this or forgot that etc. and I cannot figure out how to get her to understand if she would just do the work she would be done and not have to sit there for hours

I even do all the work I can for her so she dosnt have to do it. Like writing her words in alphabetical order and all she has to do is copy them down. I also do that math for her. It isnt that she dosnt know how to do it she just dosnt want to.

I have tried everything from offering rewards to punishment and nothing is working. I am totally lost here.


/rant ahead
I HATE homework I do not agree with it but a big part of her grade is homework and if she dosnt do it then she will fail. I never had homework even in high school I never brought books home. I know things have changed but they are expecting to much of kids now. Kids need time to be kids and an hour before bed time isnt enough /end rant

[FedUpMom]

just say no

Have you discussed this with the teacher? She probably has no idea how long it takes an actual kid to do all that work. The usual rule, which you might get the teacher to agree to, is "10 minutes per grade per night", which would mean your daughter shouldn't spend more than 40 minutes per night on homework.

The homework you describe is an awful lot of writing. I think for a child that age it could actually be physically painful to have to write all that stuff out when they're exhausted at the end of the day. My daughter would have been taking forever with this too.

You absolutely should not let this situation continue. You'll wreck your family life and your daughter will hate school.

If you haven't already, look at these books:

The Case Against Homework, Bennett and Kalish

The Homework Myth, Alfie Kohn

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I did talk to the teachers at dd's IEP meeting and there is no way around homework they wouldnt even really discuss it other than to say that they had to send it home because they didnt have time to do it all at school.

She could do the work in that amount of time if she would concentrate I have seen her do more work than that in an hour when she was in the mood. The problem is she is not usually in the mood and I really cant blame her.

My only option at this point is to have her sit and do as much as she can in about 40 minutes then let her leave the rest. I just hate to see her held back in school and punished by not getting recess because she hasnt gotten her work done.

I cannot opt her out of that either it is a school wide policy and they are very strict about it.

[JollyGG]

Right or wrong, I use bribery and a timer.

My son has the option of 30 minutes of free time, no screen time but most anything else is game (some kids do better with a little down time others do better if they jump right in). It's then time to get to work. He then sets the timer for another 30 minutes (or whatever you think is reasonable). If he completes the work in the 30 minutes he gets a prize from my prize bucket. If he doesn't complete there is no consequence as long as it's done by the time I come home from work almost two hours later. The exception is, of course, if he needs my help with something. I dont' know what the consequences would be because I haven't had to use one since starting this plan.

What used to be an hours and hours long ordeal is no longer much of a fight. For a matter of fact it's resulted in less homework overall as he quickly figured out that the prize was guaranteed if he had no homework since he got it all done at school. So he's more motivated to focus and get it done in class.

It works for us YMMV.

I do have to say though that she may be taking so long to do homework because it gets her out of the work. It sounds like you get sick of how long homework takes and basically do it for her. Therefore she is not at all motivated to do it herself. If she wines and complains and takes long enough she doesn't have to do it at all. If I could procrastinate and goof off and it resulted in someone else doing my work for me I can guarantee I'd never buckle down and finish it myself either. I'm not sure you are doing her any favors by doing so much of her homework for her.

[One_Girl]

My dd isn't that age yet, but when we homeschooled motivation was sometimes an issue. I found that what actually worked best was me taking myself out of the equation. It was stressful and was really creating a lot of negative feelings between us until then. I gave her the work she needed to finish after making sure she knew how to do it and I left her to it. At first she took 2 hours to do fifteen minutes of work. Sometimes she would call to me and complain saying she wanted to play or watch her short dvd and I would tell her she could just as soon as she was done. Usually once she hit the complain point and remembered the dvd she would finish quickly. She quickly realized that I wasn't going to step in and do the arguing or giving in that had been going on and she started completing the fifteen minutes worth of work in fifteen minutes or less. If I reminded her of the dvd it felt like a punishment and nagging to her and it had no effect except to make her drag and resist because it was a battle. By taking myself out and letting her make the choices about how to do the required work I freed both of us from the battle and she was able to focus on doing her work instead of battling me. I suggest seeing if you can restructure you dd's homework time so it comes before doing anything except snack and take yourself completely out of the picture then it may be more motivating. Since your dd is older and probably used to just having to sit and daydream until you do her work for her it may take longer for her to come out of the silent battle mode, but if it works for you the way it did for us I think you will both be a lot happier about homework.

[Holland73]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

My only option at this point is to have her sit and do as much as she can in about 40 minutes then let her leave the rest. I just hate to see her held back in school and punished by not getting recess because she hasnt gotten her work done.

Can you tell her that she needs to do 40 minutes of concentrated, best effort homework? BUT, how she breaks up that 40 minutes is up to her.

She can work for 10 minutes straight, take a break and return for another 10 minutes... whatever works best for her and her concentration level. But, the time she does spend on her homework has to be her BEST effort.

After that 40 minutes, stop. Then, sit with her and talk about how much she got done, what worked best and what could help her even better. She needs to be a part of finding a solution to the problem.

Additionally, speaking with my teacher hat on, I strongly suggest you stop doing her homework for her. It sends the message that she cannot do it, is not capable of figuring it out or unable problem solve to find the answers. A wrong answer is just as powerful, if not even more powerful, as a correct one. It shows me, the teacher, exactly where there are missing links in their knowledge. Additionally, it shows me that she tried. AND, if it takes them too long to get the work completed, that also tells me a great deal of where I need to help the student.

You are not always going to be there to do her work. She needs to find ways to be resourceful and be willing to take risks with a wrong answer. It will, ultimately, empower her.

Btw: my 2nd grader HATES homework and we also have to employ the same time management technique. 85% of the time it works great for him, he feels a sense of control. But, there are still days where I just want to Oh, and I also don't allow any TV or video games until his 20 minutes is completed... it is HUGE motivator for him!

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

I did talk to the teachers at dd's IEP meeting and there is no way around homework they wouldnt even really discuss it other than to say that they had to send it home because they didnt have time to do it all at school.

Wait....

The teachers didn't have enough time to finish it with her in school, but she is punished if her PARENTS don't have enough time to finish it with her at home?

Something is wrong here.

They know her abilities and limits. They know her speed of work. They are dumping their work on you.

I would refuse any homework that was left over schoolwork. If she didn't get it done in school, that is an issue to be handled in school.

I'd ask them "what is a reasonable time for my child to spend on homework each evening". Then ask them "do you believe my child, with her abilities and limitations, is capable of finishing the assigned amt of homework in that time?" See what they say.

[Linda on the move]

Why does she have an IEP?

As part of my DD's 504 plan, assignments could be modified to reduce the amount of handwriting, and she had until the following Monday to complete assignments. Some kids just have to do every other math problems.

Depending on why your DD has an IEP, these assignments may be completely unreasonable *for her.*

This shouldn't just be between you and her teacher, the other members of her IEP team should be part of this. You can request another meeting *in writing.* In the mean time, if her grades drop, her grades drop. Sadly, many schools don't feel there is a problem with the IEP until the child is failing.

[CarrieMF]

Well I wouldn't do homework either if I knew that waiting long enough would get my mom to do most of it so I only had to copy it.

You doing it for you(even if it's writing it down so she can copy or only doing the last 5) isn't teaching her anything. It'd be better to just not do it than for you to do it for her.

If some of it is regular homework & some of it is classwork that didn't get done then I'd do the class work first.

If she's going to miss recess then that's a consequence I'd let her do a few times. She is old enough to know the rules & consequences. Missing 2-3 recesses isn't going to hurt her.

When are you trying to get her to do the work? Is it right after school, after supper, between?

What if you broke it up into 20minute segments. Come home - snack - 20 min of homework - playtime - supper - 20min homework - play time - 20min homework - bedtime.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

Well I wouldn't do homework either if I knew that waiting long enough would get my mom to do most of it so I only had to copy it.

ITA.

Not only that, but by you doing it, you have given her teachers the impression that your DD is perfectly capable of doing it. As a teacher, it would be easy to dismiss a parents concerns that the homework is too much if it is showing up everyday perfectly completed. I think you need to fess up that you've been doing it for your DD, if you want the teacher to take your concerns seriously.

I know you are concerned about her getting poor grades from it, but this is 4th grade. Getting a D in home work in 4th grade isn't going to be seen on her college applications or anything. Just let it go, and let your DD face the consequences, and let the teacher get a more realistic view of what is happening.



Without knowing why she has an IEP, it is hard to say what might help make the work possible for her. A few things that helped me were:

I found having a distraction while working really helped. Once my mother gave up and stopped trying to force me to do it sitting uncomfortably at the kitchen table, I usually had music playing in the background, or even some times a not too distracting TV show going. Sometimes it was just someone else's company, I still need some level of distraction to get through tasks like doing dishes. I know for people who don't work this way (which is 90%+ of the population I'm guessing) this seems counter-intuitive. However, if the task is mostly painful and not particularly challenging, then a little distraction helps make it bearable.

Being able to type anything that involves a lot of writing. In my day, I actually did it on a real typer writer, but you could have her do it on the computer, and just promise the teacher you would supervise it so there was no cut and paste involved.

Doing some sections of the homework verbally. I'm not saying you should in anyway shape or form do the homework, but simply write down what she says word for word. I would write a note to the teacher at the top of the page every time you do this. The note could indicate how many minutes of writing your DD put in before taking that part over. I would carefully avoid any correction while she is dictating. If she says "5+10=25" you write that down without comment or making any faces. You might encourage her to look over what you have written to check for any mistakes, but I wouldn't specifically point them out to her.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

She has the IEP due to some speech issues. Has trouble with a few sounds yet and has been in there since she started school back in pre K.

Thank you all for the suggestions. I will definitely try some of them.

[Emmeline II]

I was going to say request another IEP meeting then go to mediation but I'm not sure if why she has the IEP is related to the homework issue.

My issues with homework at that age were due to not understanding it and possibly ADD, though I think that is too much homework for a 4th grader.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

If she's going to miss recess then that's a consequence I'd let her do a few times. She is old enough to know the rules & consequences. Missing 2-3 recesses isn't going to hurt her.

agreed. if there isn't any reason for her to not be able to do the work, then let her live with her choices, have some negative consequences, and learn from them.

You might be making the problem worse. Not only is she having you do her home work, she's also got you doing her class work. You are taking all the responsibility for it, and it should be her responsibility.

I also think that your attitude is part of the problem. If you felt that the responsibility and extra practice was good for her, she would eventually pick up on that and rise to your expectations. As long as you feel she shouldn't have to do this, then she believes that.

I'd most likely email the teacher and let her know that your have been taking all the responsibility for the homework, but you are going to let your DD start taking responsibility, so it may be bumpy for a few weeks.

What if you broke it up into 20minute segments. Come home - snack - 20 min of homework - playtime - supper - 20min homework - play time - 20min homework - bedtime.

good advice.

I'd also make sure the TV is off and there's no computer/Wii time until after homework is done, though I very big on running around and playing.

One of my DD's liked me to sit with her while she did her work. She liked the morale support, so I sat there and read a book.

[Alyantavid]

My 3rd grader knows he has to do his homework before he gets to do anything else. Granted, he doesn't have nearly that much.

I do sit down with him while he does and I will help if he needs something explained. But I will not do my child's homework for him. What good does that do? You're just teaching her that she doesn't have to do it because you will.

Set a time for her to do it and let her know that you won't be doing it for her anymore, she has this amount of time to get it done or she'll have to deal with the consequences.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I completely agree that doing it for her is not really helping her. The homework you describe seems very reasonable for a 4th grader. If you do it for her, she will never get any better because she's not learning what she is supposed to be learning. She'll get further and further behind as she fails to learn the beginning lessons.

Over the years, we've had issue with getting homework completed with my son, though so far not with my daughter. Here are some things that we have tried. Each time we try something new we give the new routine at least 2 weeks to see if it helps before trying something new or sticking with it. I'm not sure how many of these you have tried, but they are go towards finding a routine that works for your child so are only suggestions and ideas to get your thinking of options:
* Specific amount of outside playtime after school, then settling into homework. For us, the transition was too tough and this didn't work well. But I know it works for others in his class.
* Specific routine for after school. This has helped a lot for both of my kids. They know that the after school routine is always the same. We've settled on: in the door, change to playclothes, get snack, unpack and go through backpacks, settle into homework.
* High protein, high carb snack. This really helps for us.
* Something to look forward to when homework is finished. Our rule is no TV and no electronics until all homework is done and repacked into backpacks. Call in bribery or a reward, whatever. It works for us.
* Limited breaks on days when homework is overwelming. There are some days when there is more homework than others or when DS is feeling unable to do something and gets frustrated. At that point, we agree on a 30 minute break BUT the no TV and no electronics rule still holds. I usually encourage him to go outside and run around or ride his bike.
* The school deals with undone homework. If for some reason DS doesn't finish before bedtime and its not something like illness, he takes unfinished work to school and deals with the school consequences. I will not, under any circumstances, do it for him or make an excuse if its his fault. Now, if there was some major reason he couldn't control then I will write a note. If he didn't understand it, and neither did I, I will write a "he tried but doesn't get it, please help him" note to the teacher.
* We've had some luck with timers occassionally. As in "let's see if you can do this page in 5 minutes". No reward other than having it done, but making it a bit more of a game.

We've also experimented with where homework is done. DS is best at the dining table where I can be around and make sure he's not distracted, rather than in his room. But I know of families where bedroom desks are better. DD does her's in the family room so the kids are separated but I can supervise both from the kitchen while I make dinner.

Some children do better with quiet classical music in the background.

Finally, its their homework. I don't sit with them, I don't do it for them. I remind them to focus if necessary and I answer questions if asked. I don't give answers though, I only coach them through the process.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

She has the IEP due to some speech issues. Has trouble with a few sounds yet and has been in there since she started school back in pre K.

Unless there are related or additional undiagnosed problems, I don't see how speech issues effect her ability to do homework. If you do suspect there is more to her problems than pure pronunciation, maybe you should pursue further testing. Do you believe that she really could finish her HW in a reasonable time frame if she wasn't getting into power struggles?

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I know she can finish the work in less than an hour I have seen her do it with no difficulty. The problem I am having with her is she dosnt want to sit and do it. She makes up things to do so she can get up even going to the bathroom and hiding in there unless I go get her.

At the IEP meeting I brought up some concerns about her that I have always had. They where actually supposed to test her last year for APD (Auditory Processing Disorder) last year but they never got it done so they promised me 2 weeks ago that they would test her but I havnt heard back from them yet so I am going to have to call tomorrow which will be 3 weeks since the IEP meeting and find out if they have done it yet.

The only thing that would have to do with her homework is her not understanding instruction at school to help her do the work at home.

It takes her a while to learn things like the new routine or new things at school and it also takes her awhile to "tune" into her teacher but once she does she does great.

This homework thing is more a stubborn/I just dont want to do it kind of thing for the most part.

[SunshineJ]

This may seem too simple or obvious, but if you haven't tried it you might be surprised how well it works. Expect her to get it done in a timely manner. When she comes home from school, tell her she has a half hour to get a snack and relax, then it's time for homework. Then tell her after she's finished she needs to come help you in the kitchen/with laundry/whatever. Be sure to let her know you need her in there helping you by a set time. And leave it at that. Right now she's whining and complaining and playing around because she can. And you're right there with her, wringing your hands and doing what all parents tend to do - and that's wanting to help your child and make things a little easier for them. We're ALL guilty of that at one point or another. Which is a noble effort, it really is, but it's not actually helping her either. When she comes out to help you (even if you only need her help for 5 min) casually ask if all her homework is finished. If she says no, just mention very low key, "Oh, well you may want to get that done before tomorrow so you don't get in trouble. I don't have time to do it for you tonight." Give her the chance to rise to it. I would, however, be throwing a fit about withholding recess as punishment for anything, as too many studies have shown that to be detrimental to a child's well being.

[CarrieMF]

The problem I am having with her is she dosnt want to sit and do it.

so she misses a couple of recesses. She'll quickly learn what she needs to do to not miss them.

1 other thing you could do is have her do x amount & then leave 1 assignment for her to do in the morning before she goes to school. That'll depend on how much time she has before school.

I'd also ask at the school if it's something they can do before school. Do they have any "study halls" they can participate in? Our school has early dismissal every wednesday. Kids can stay & do their homework during that time.

[meemee]

gosh i can myself relate to hw issues being a student myself.

first thing. as others pointed out - dont help.

i have a feeling she is way overwhelmed with the amount. esp. when you dont like it anything beyond 5 mins is too much. so dont have her sit and focus. dont make her sit down and only get up when hw is done. my dd takes 2 hours to do hw too. its coz she does 10 mins hw then off to play then another 10 mins and then play.

i am so surprised many of you are saying talk to the school. hw is non negotiable. there is a basic amount all kids have to do.

after K and all my frustrations, in first grade (after talking to the teacher) i told my dd that hw was on her. i didnt care if she did it or not. i didnt think she needed it. she could do whatever she wanted. but she would have to deal with the repurcussions. so she said ok then. i wont do hw. she came home the first day excited that she had sat in during recess. she quickly finished her hw and was able to read some. the second day same reaction. by the end of the week she had enough.

mom if i have not sat down to do hw by 6 pm you neeed to remind me. after that experience hw is on her. i help her when she needs help otherwise she is on her own. her motivation is the consequence of not doing hw. she has learnt no matter what she thinks, no matter how unpleasant the task - its something that just needs to be done.

i dont care how she does it. as long as its done by dinner time. dd does her hw wherever she pleases. however she pleases. sometimes in the backyard, in her bed, at the dining table, etc. but never first thing back from school. she needs a mental break from school and some physical time. i dont have any rules that she cant watch tv or cant play.

since midldle of first grade hw has never been an issue in our house anymore. somedays we do our hw together. dd loves helping me.