Interacting with friends who parent differently

[emsparrow]

So... I've been a long time fan of AP, and I'm about to have my first in Oct. A very good friend of mine just had her first 2 wks ago. She's a wonderful person and it's been such a gift to go through pregnancy with her. I hope to learn a lot from her experience in these early weeks, and to be able to support and care for her. What's hard is that she's planning to use Babywise to guide her parenting, and has been talking about starting her 2wo baby on a sleep schedule this week. I have a really, really hard time with BW... I just don't think it's healthy or positive for families. I know that there are kids raised with Babywise by wonderful parents who turn out to be lovely children, so it's not like I think their lives will be ruined. It's just... how do you support and interact with close friends, parenting friends, without hurting or judging them, and without just saying "oh that's great" when you don't really believe it is? It's not like I think I know the right way, esp. since I haven't even experienced parenting yet (!), but I'm concerned about the methods in BW and how they are contradicted by most studies. I'm so new to this, and I want to be loving and supportive, but also honest (she knows I don't like BW, but at the time we talked about it I didn't really know much about the book, so I basically just said I felt uneasy about it but hadn't given it a fair chance. Since then, I've learned a lot about it and feel worse about it). I imagine this sort of thing comes up a lot in friendships, so I'd love your wisdom. Thanks!

[Tway]

I posted something about my confusion over this a few weeks ago. A good friend had a preemie about 2 months back, and she keeps him in a sleep basket all day, FF's him on a strict schedule (and is trying to extend it so she can get more sleep), rarely picks him up, etc. etc. Some people wondered if she had PPD, but she's happy and goes out for drinks at least once a week and seems to go about her life as before and appears to think this is how one parents. And who's to say she's wrong?

She's a great person and I've known her forever, and I know she loves her son very much. I also know there's no one way to parent and no one set of guidelines will guarantee a well-balanced kid. What I have a hard time with is having my Mommy instincts go ape-crap whenever I'm around her and her son. I want to pick him up, hold him, hug him, feed him... and it's hard to just say to myself "It's her babe--and her choice".

I just feel uncomfortable and I feel a distance between us, because the most important additions to our lives are brining us two separate ways.

Anyhow, I'm lurking here to see what others have to say, too!

[The4OfUs]

I have a friend who did CIO with her kids. And I am not a fan. So whenever the topic would come up, I'd say something like, "We really just can't agree on this topic; we both love our kids and I love you very much so let's not talk about it." and she'd drop whatever topic she was talking about. We've remained friends through several different topics like this, and now that our kids are older, it's not as much of an issue anymore.

Good luck!

[Hannah32]

I think the best general course is to mind your own business. If you still want that person as a friend. If you don't, feel free to say whatever you'd like to say.

[EFmom]

I wouldn't bring it up and I wouldn't offer unsolicited advice. If she raised the topic and asked for your opinion, I'd give it, honestly but politely. I wouldn't offer "supportive" comments about what she's doing. I think I'd just say that it's not something I could agree on, and change the subject.

[peainthepod]

Normally I'd say mind your own business and keep your mouth shut, but since the Babywise method has been linked to dehydration and failure to thrive in babies, and since the Ezzos' philosophy is suspect at best, potentially dangerous at worst, I'd probably send her some information about it.

Here's an article about the AAP and Babywise: http://www.ezzo.info/Aney/aneyaap.htm

Ezzo controversies: http://www.ezzo.info/Articles/ezzo-b...oversy-101.htm

To answer the more general form of your question, I think unless there's an obvious safety issue with a friend's parenting (as there very well may be if she's doing Babywise), it's best not to offer unsolicited advice. If she asks for your opinion, by all means give it (gently). But otherwise, take the old maxim "Everyone's a perfect parent until they have kids" to heart. Because few things are more irritating than being told how to raise your children, especially by someone who doesn't even have children of their own yet. No matter how well meaning you are, it just rubs people the wrong way--and with good reason. If the shoe were on the other foot and you started getting "friendly" admonishments about co-sleeping, or extended breastfeeding, or homebirthing, or whatever other thing you do that she doesn't, you probably wouldn't like it much.

I hope you and your friend can come to an understanding that allows you both to feel comfortable.

[Norasmomma]

The sad truth is you may not stay friends. I'm having this experience myself currently. My friend and I were very good friends until we had kids, then the whole array of why we are different came to be. I am a relaxed mom, no cart covers, no bubble wrapping everything, who has a spirited little girl. She's a very control oriented person, every detail of her day is planned, meals, naps, the whole darn day-planned. We cannot make plans for that would rock the boat of her schedule. So sadly we are growing apart, very far apart.

So many things have caused this break-up, but mostly it is because we do parent so differently and our lives just don't mesh well any more. We have completely opposite views. We co-sleep, co-parent, and share most of our child-rearing in our family. She scoffs at my co-sleeping and wondered when we were going to get a crib for DS, she asked me like a million times when pg with him, where's the baby's crib gonna go?! This was even after we co-slept with DD so she knew where we stood on the situation.

It's hard, but you may just grow apart. I'm in the mode of trying to find more moms who parent more like me, right now it's pretty hard.

[Chicky2]

Originally Posted by emsparrow

It's just... how do you support and interact with close friends, parenting friends, without hurting or judging them, and without just saying "oh that's great" when you don't really believe it is?

You seem like a really smart future mama to me. You recognize instinctively that BW is harmful. You don't want to hurt your friend, but are concerned about her baby.

IME, it is really hard to maintain a friendship when something as fundamental as parenting differences comes into play. Or at least if you are around the friend often. There have been several times in the past when I've had to end a friendship because of parenting differences. It stinks. I admit you are in a little different situation, though. You don't already have kids. In my situations it has always been that I had to step back and say, "hey, do I really want this type of behavior/example around my children?" (not that we are in any way perfect, mind you!), and if the answer is no, then I have to do what is best for my kids. Since you don't already have kids, your friend might think your opinion doesn't matter much. I guess it depends on how close you really are to her, and how you approach it. I could NOT sit and watch a child being raised that way. I just couldn't. It goes against everything I believe in my heart is right for my children, and well, all children! They need to be cuddled and loved and all that great stuff that I enjoy doing for/with my own children.

Good luck, future mama!

[bodhitree]

I would have a really, really hard time being close friends with someone who did BW. I do understand that not everyone needs to parent the exact same way I do, and I certainly make my share of mistakes. But I have chosen, for instance, to put more distance between myself and certain extended family members who parent in a way that I consider harsh, disrespectful, and cruel. I just can't be around it. It makes me feel too awful. And last time we were around those family members, I watched my DD's face, and even she found it very upsetting to be around all the yelling and harsh discipline. So yeah, for those who can stay close in spite of parenting differences, more power to you, but it's not something I've been able to do.

[St. Margaret]

Well, I like what Heather/the4ofus said. BUT if this were my GOOD friend, I'd have to sit down and have a focused conversation where I said, here is the truth about the person who wrote this book, and the studies on the damaging effects it has had on babies. I am your friend so I feel the need to let you know. Then I'd take it from there. Perhaps you two can agree to not speak about it (and have her not bother you about your style). But it's true that I personally cannot see remaining true friends with someone who would do that to their baby. It could easily poison the relationship, as I'd lose a lot of respect and have a really hard time loving someone who could be so cruel to a baby, even if THEY don't see it as being cruel. And honestly, if someone is going to refuse to actually investigate something as major as this, or ignores the telling studies... I know science is endlessly debatable, but when it's combined with such a powerful instinct on my part... it's hard to respect that person and feel as close. And if you spend a lot of time together, you and your child might be subjected to seeing her ignore baby while it cries, not feed when baby is frantically hungry... I know I could never stand that. Some people kind of plan to use a schedule but end up being really flexible so you never know, it could be a lot better and easier to remain friends.

[emsparrow]

Thank you all so much for your replies! I suppose I should have said of course I would never offer unsolicited advice or judgment to a friend about her parenting choices (esp. since I'm about 2 mos away from actually being a parent). Ew. It's more 1) the concern that BW is actually unhealthy and sometimes dangerous (and that it doesn't really seem to fit her personality, but it's what she's known), and 2) simply how to interact. My dh keeps saying, if you know this stuff about BW, why wouldn't you tell your friend? And I keep saying, well, b/c she needs support as a new mom, and she needs to not feel judged. But maybe there's a way to gently sit down some time when she brings it up and just say, look, here's what I've read on BW, and I thought you should know. And then tell her I won't bring it up again unless she asks about it. Anyway, thank you. Such new, sensitive territory!

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by emsparrow

. But maybe there's a way to gently sit down some time when she brings it up and just say, look, here's what I've read on BW, and I thought you should know. And then tell her I won't bring it up again unless she asks about it.

I think this is a fantastic idea. Give the information, and let her know you're available to give more, and then let it go. If you see that the baby is OK, then I wouldn't rpess it anymore. If the baby is clearly suffering, then I might have to rethink it. I've heard babywise can go either way - some people just loosely use it but still listen to the baby and nurture them, and the baby does OK (NOT my style at all, in fact it squicks me out), but only if they are really rigid about it does it become medically dangerous. THAT'S when I'd step in. Believe me, I am NOT defending Babywise, I think it's a really lousy idea at best, and negligent and abusive at worst. But if the baby is healthy and not being harmed, and it's just a coldre/more distant kind of parenting than you do, I'd let it go if you want to stay friends, because when the kids get to be school aged I can almost guarantee you the differences will not be as great.

[chicoandthemama]

This is such a tricky situation. If your inclinations lead you to AP and feeling strongly against BW methods before you have children, once that baby comes it's likely your hormones are going to intensify those feelings manyfold. There's so much to discover and learn in the early months with your first that having people who feel as you do to share ups and downs becomes really important. You can find that on MDC if ,like me, you don't know any APer's in real life. If your friend is truly amazing, and as conscientious of maintaining your friendship as you are, you may be able to support each other from a polite distance. I personally wouldn't present a position against BW, because I wouldn't appreciate someone doing that to me with regard to AP. (I know is absolutely unfair to compare them, but not to an Ezzo follower). The furthest I would go in that direction would be to ask if she was aware of any controversy with the author, and see how she responds. If she shows true interest in learning about that, I'd suggest googling his name. That's it.
I was told early on that these differences are most magnified in the very early years. Later, hopefully, differences in style aren't so important. I am not sure if that's true, IME it's about confidence. I know what I've chosen is right for us, and keeping us on a path we hoped to follow. I was not so confident in the first year. Now that DS is 2.5, my 2 closest friends in my town parent VERY differently than me, and it rarely presents a problem for us. I may kvetch to my husband about what I see, or limit time with one kid or another, but my friendships are not threatened the way they may have been earlier on.
Good luck! Remember that relationships can survive breaks if you need one

[Cujobunny]

Originally Posted by emsparrow

gently sit down some time when she brings it up and just say, look, here's what I've read on BW, and I thought you should know. And then tell her I won't bring it up again unless she asks about it.

I think this would be the perfect way to do and say what you want to get to her.

Otherwise, unless it's a safety/health issue (which I do think the BW is) that my friends have brought up for discussion, I give my opinion, or my story of how we do it and leave it at that. I think sometimes new parents bring up these things as a way to find out if there are other options or to see what other parents do. You can often tell in their tone of voice or body language if it's something they're not sure about or if it's something they're dying to try. So if it seems like they're looking for answers, I give my methods. If not, I just say "That's not for me!" or something along those lines and see if they need more than that.

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by peainthepod

Normally I'd say mind your own business and keep your mouth shut, but since the Babywise method has been linked to dehydration and failure to thrive in babies, and since the Ezzos' philosophy is suspect at best, potentially dangerous at worst, I'd probably send her some information about it.

ITA. I'm usually very much a MYOB type of person, but babywise is flat out dangerous I'd probably phrase it more like "Oh, I know you use that and didn't know much about it, so I was checking into it, and I was kind of concerned about some of the stuff I was reading!" with links to stuff like PitP posted, and just say "what do you think of this?"

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by Norasmomma

The sad truth is you may not stay friends. I'm having this experience myself currently. My friend and I were very good friends until we had kids, then the whole array of why we are different came to be. I am a relaxed mom, no cart covers, no bubble wrapping everything, who has a spirited little girl. She's a very control oriented person, every detail of her day is planned, meals, naps, the whole darn day-planned. We cannot make plans for that would rock the boat of her schedule. So sadly we are growing apart, very far apart.

So many things have caused this break-up, but mostly it is because we do parent so differently and our lives just don't mesh well any more. We have completely opposite views. We co-sleep, co-parent, and share most of our child-rearing in our family. She scoffs at my co-sleeping and wondered when we were going to get a crib for DS, she asked me like a million times when pg with him, where's the baby's crib gonna go?! This was even after we co-slept with DD so she knew where we stood on the situation.

It's hard, but you may just grow apart. I'm in the mode of trying to find more moms who parent more like me, right now it's pretty hard.

I'm not for BW or Growing Kids God's Way (I cringe when I stop to think that people are judging Christians by his example) but your post reminded me of the struggles I had in trying to explain why we parented Erica the way we did. From the outside, it looked very much like what you describe your friend's style. From the inside, that was what Erica wanted and needed. So it really was AP. We listened to and took our cues from Erica. She didn't co-sleep, she wasn't held when we were out but was in a stroller until she was old enough for the Gerry backpack (about 6 months when she was sitting up and had good head control). She had a strict nap/bed schedule. If not, she fell apart. On those few occasions when she did fall asleep in the infant car seat (btw, I love the term bucket seat), she stayed in the seat and I carted that into the store or the house until she woke up. I'm just saying that don't jump to harsh judgments on other people's methods of parenting. It could really be all about the child.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by chicoandthemama

If your inclinations lead you to AP and feeling strongly against BW methods before you have children, once that baby comes it's likely your hormones are going to intensify those feelings manyfold.

agreed. Add to that a lack a of good night's sleep for a months, things can feel really intense!

It's also possible that she will try things out and see how they feel to her, and may change her mind about what to do. She may leave her baby to cry a time or two, but then feel in her heart it isn't the right thing to do.

Very few people end up parenting exactly the way they planned on.

I was told early on that these differences are most magnified in the very early years.

this is very true.

If she does end up doing Babywise, I'd try to steer away from conversations about how tired you are or how hard it is to leave the baby, because these kinds of comments can be seen as openings to others to tell you how to parent. It's best to seek support from people who are supportive of attachment parenting.

[Adaline'sMama]

I have a good friend who has chosen to do BW. Our DD's are a year apart. I have taken this oppurtunity to remain a person outside of being a mother. We discuss politics, friends, movies, the best dish soap, ect. We occasionally discuss diapering and clothing, but we have been very firm about not discussing parenting methods. She will tell me how she accomplished something (napping, solid foods, ect.) and I will simply say "Ok, Ill keep that in mind". She knows I AP, and we have just gotten past it. At first I thought she was horrible for the way she did things, but our friendship has reminded me that there is more to a person than how they decide to parent. She was raised that way, and she's a bit older than me, and this pregnancy was uplannned for her, so she has chosen the eaisest way to parent. "Me and all my brothers and sisters CIOed, and we are just fine, thanks..no brain damage here"

*obviously I disagree with the last statement