Why are kids SO inconsiderate?

[LightToast]

I'm sad for my son this morning. We were waiting for the bus at the corner. We were the first ones there. There are about 5 other kids that come to this corner to wait for the bus. Finally, the other kids arrived. 3 are in 3rd grade and 1 is in 5th. My chatty son kept trying to talk to any of them to engage in friendly conversation and NONE of them would talk to him- not even offering one-word answers.

I could tell he was feeling a bit out of place after several failed attempts at getting a conversation going. So, now my heart hurts for my friendly son. Any recommendations? Why are kids SO inconsiderate? If I had to guess, it's because he JUST a first grader and why would anyone OLDER want to waste time with a LITTLE first grader. Seriously, WTH is up with that? What rudeness!

[velochic]

Most kids are tired and still waking up. You're taking this personally, when it's probably just because these kids want to be left alone in the morning as they're still half asleep. You think the others are being rude, but really it is your own dc being rude (ultimately... at this age I would expect the parent to explain it because the little one might not catch the social cues). You (and your child) have to respect personal space... and that includes conversations. Sorry...

[The4OfUs]

Depends.....were they talkignn with each other and ignoring him, or were they all just groggy and not talking to each other either? If nobody was talking to each other then I'd probably tell my kid to back off becasue they all looked tired and were still waking up and getting used ot this after a long summer break. But if they were just talking to each other and ignoring him, then that's another thing.

I have a very friendly first grader, too, and I when he's excluded from bigger kid stuff, I tell him, "Unfortunately, sometimes bigger kids don't like talking to littler kids. I don't think it's right, but it's the way it is. I hope you'll remember how it feels, and talk to littler kids when you're bigger." I used to hate this when I was a kid/teen, and always made sure I didn't do it as I got bigger. It's not the same as playing something a littler kid can't play, I tell my kiddo that big kids play games sometimes that he can't, and that's OK and we shouldn't bug the bigger kids if they're really involved in something he isn't allowed to do. But just standing around, or not involved in playtime, I feel bad for him that he's so outgoing and gets no response. Meh.

[laohaire]

I homeschool but crashing because we experience very similar things. DD will go to the playground or lake, and the majority of children are - well, I can only say "unsocialized." I don't expect everyone to want to play with my DD, but the most common response to her friendly advances are things like outright ignoring her, glaring at her and turning their backs, stuff like that. We've observed it's not related to ages - children her age, younger and older all do it about equally. A few are sociable, and again it's not age-related. The kids that play with her range in age from 3 to 8 (DD is 5).

I was someone who suffered a lot of rejection in school (I wore glasses and hearing aids, and was scrawny to boot, you can't get more lame than me) and it breaks my heart to see it happen with DD. And also kind of confounds me, because even by the most shallow measures, the only thing I can see that would lead kids to reject her is that she is nice. She plays well, she's verbal, she is willing to risk starting an interaction, and she's gorgeous (yup, shallow, but if kids are rejecting because of looks, I can't see how that's a factor for my DD). I am trying to teach her that a lot of kids are immature and not very nice, so if she doesn't get a good response right away she should understand it's about the other kid and not her, and just walk away from them. I just really don't want her to internalize it like I inevitably did. Because honestly, it really is about the other kids, not her, but unfortunately it hurts her and not the other kids. I hate how unfair it is.

[NiteNicole]

This caught my eye from the main page, my daughter isn't in school yet. She is a VERY chatty kid and has been since she could talk at all. She's always tried to introduce herself to other children and most of them look at her like she's sprouted another head. It makes me SO sad. I know not every child wants to be her new best friend, but is "hi" so hard? Do parents really not teach their children that it's polite to speak or at least WAVE when someone speaks to them?

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by NiteNicole

This caught my eye from the main page, my daughter isn't in school yet. She is a VERY chatty kid and has been since she could talk at all. She's always tried to introduce herself to other children and most of them look at her like she's sprouted another head. It makes me SO sad. I know not every child wants to be her new best friend, but is "hi" so hard? Do parents really not teach their children that it's polite to speak or at least WAVE when someone speaks to them?

It's so awkward and sad, isn't it? I mean, I've told my 4 yo since she was 2, "when someone says hi, it's nice to smile or wave back". How hard is that? Bleh.

[GuildJenn]

I'm not there yet but I suspect this is one of those things where when your kid is the smallest, it looks really rude. But when your kid is older, you understand more where they are coming from. I'd give the older kids the benefit of the doubt. Soon enough they may all be chatting up a storm.

[The4OfUs]

I have to disagree. I remember really respecting the older kids who were kind and talked with the younger kids, from elementary through high school, and modeling myself after them. I remember each of their names, decades later. Being older does not have to equal ignoring younger kids to be cool.

Again, if this was first day grogginess and nobody was talking to anybody, that's one thing. But if this was, "it's not cool to talk to a first grader", then it's bunk and the 'kids will be kids' thing is lame.

[Tigerchild]

While (because I'm an adult now) I have learned to cope with them with at least some semblance of noncommittal politeness...gotta tell ya I hate dealing with "friendly conversationalists" on the subway, bus, plane, in line at the grocery store, ect. Esp. in the mornings when I am still half asleep and/or am grumpy already because I must go somewhere (like work or school) that frankly I may be not eager to go to or stressed out about.

I think that while it would be good for older kids to be able to say politely, "I'm sorry, I'm tired/kinda cranky and I don't feel like talking right now", I a) suspect that you would not really like that either and b) it's just as valid to teach your son to say "hi" first and if he doesn't get a response or a minimal response that it means the person isn't feeling very friendly or chatty. Or is he even phased? Your OP doesn't mention your son being upset at all--just you. I have met some kids who are very chatty but don't seem to even notice that much if other people aren't interested, they brush it off and keep going. If he is that kid, then

I'm not sure what you mean by friendly conversation (keeping on after an initial hi with no response?) but chatter can be inconsiderate too if someone is not interested. 3rd and 5th graders (do you know this or are you guessing based on size?) are still learning social skills too, with the added addition of hormonal winding up. Volunteering with older grades has really helped me have more realistic expectations of where kids are emotionally and socially even if they're twice the size of mine.

So...as much as possible, I would really make an effort to not take this personally. Teach your kid that some people are not friendly in the morning and that's okay, you'd love to chat with him and maybe after everyone settles in to school it'll be different--but it might not be. Why allow the older kids to make YOU grumpy? You have absolutely no control over them. So, you can let it go, teach your son to let it go if he's having difficulty; or you can get upset in a situation where you have no power.

[The4OfUs]

I can understand a kid not wanting to have an entire conversation, but not even acknowledging someone who has greeted them is just plain rude. You can smile, nod, wave, any number of nonverbal niceties that get across the message that you don't want to talk. But you have to learn that, and it would seem to not be somehting these kids (and others) ahve learned. Heck, I've told people who were trying to chat me up, "I can't talk just now, I have to work on something. Hope you have a good day." and smiled, and walked somewhere else to concentrate on whatever I was doing (even if it was just being stressed out and not wanting to talk). But at least they were acknowledged.

Now, not that I expect a 10-yo to have that kind of response ready, but a smile or nod or wave I don't think is expecting too much, it's just basic courtesy.

[madskye]

Most big kids have been really nice to my dd, who just started K yesterday. Do you think it is your neighborhood (a general lack of community spirit) or just those kids or could your son need a little guidance in ways to approach bigger kids in order to get a response?

It is hard when anyone isn't charmed or friendly to your child. DD has a memory like an elephant--if she meets you once you are her friend. We had two things happen over the summer where we bumped into kids who just didn't remember her, and her feelings were hurt by that. It's hard to see them reach out and not get the response they want.

[LightToast]

Thanks all! I will try not to take it personally. I am not one to be super chatty in the morning either. However, these kids were all interacting with each other and talking among themselves. DS was just trying to engage them a little. He was just getting the 'I'd really like to ignore you look' from them as if to say, "Why are you bothering me?" I'm not sure they meant to be unkind but it really came across as rude.

It's been so long since I was in elementary school. Now, I think I'm starting to recall why I didn't really care for it very much. I don't know how much DS was fazed by the rejection. However, I think it was starting to bother him. I have explained to him on previous occasions that sometimes older kids don't want to bother with younger ones, i.e. when they are playing games, etc. But I really felt this was just a common courtesy issue. And, I really started to feel weird about how they were excluding him. I'm not going to bring the situation up to DS unless he does.

Thanks again for the reality check!

[Geofizz]

Originally Posted by The4OfUs

It's so awkward and sad, isn't it? I mean, I've told my 4 yo since she was 2, "when someone says hi, it's nice to smile or wave back". How hard is that? Bleh.

Well, I've been telling my 8 year old that at least since she was 2. We're still working on these basic skills. They do not come easily to all kids, even with parents on top of it and actively teaching these social norms.

Originally Posted by velochic

You think the others are being rude, but really it is your own dc being rude (ultimately... at this age I would expect the parent to explain it because the little one might not catch the social cues). You (and your child) have to respect personal space... and that includes conversations. Sorry...

If I'm waiting at the bus stop and someone approaches, I make eye contact and say hello. I might even make conversation based on the social cues I get from that person.

I don't know what this child is doing in attempting conversation, but children riding the bus together every morning and getting on at the same stop might be expected to make eye contact, say good morning, and introduce themselves. Beyond that, it's up to the kids to take the social cues whether or not the reciprocal social cues are open to further conversation or not.

[LightToast]

I'm wondering if these kids just happen to be a shy bunch and therefore I must be expecting too much. They did not say hello to him when they walked up to the bus stop. And, it's not that we don't know these kids. They live down the street from us. We don't know them well, but we do know their names and faces and have seen them several times.

The conversation attempts were non-invasive. He just in 1st grade so he is still learning the ropes. It was just getting awkward because DS was trying to "break the ice" and they weren't receptive. Yet they were all talking with each other, so it was pretty obvious that he was odd man out. Ouch!

Tomorrow is another day.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by LightToast

The conversation attempts were non-invasive. He just in 1st grade so he is still learning the ropes. It was just getting awkward because DS was trying to "break the ice" and they weren't receptive. Yet they were all talking with each other, so it was pretty obvious that he was odd man out. Ouch!

Tomorrow is another day.

Yeah, that's different than what I first assumed. They could have at least said hello... especially since they were already acquainted as neighbors. I agree with you, knowing more of the details now. ETA: I assumed that they were all in their morning fog, not talking to anyone and your chatty ds was talking to them a lot - that they were just not wanting to engage in an early morning convo as they were just waking up. Sounds like that wasn't the case.

[oceanbaby]

This happens with my first grader. We homeschooled until just this year, and he has an older brother (4th grade) and in our homeschool group there was very little age separation, in that my younger son would chat and participate with the older kids no problem. But in school it seems to be very different - they don't usually acknowledge him when we go to ds1's classroom and he says hi to the older kids.

I just kind of shrug at him and say something like "I guess they don't feel like saying hi or talking right now."

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by The4OfUs

I have to disagree. I remember really respecting the older kids who were kind and talked with the younger kids, from elementary through high school, and modeling myself after them. I remember each of their names, decades later. Being older does not have to equal ignoring younger kids to be cool.

Again, if this was first day grogginess and nobody was talking to anybody, that's one thing. But if this was, "it's not cool to talk to a first grader", then it's bunk and the 'kids will be kids' thing is lame.

But those aren't the only two possibilities. I didn't mean my comment in terms of 'coolness' but just - on the first day back to school (if it was) they might be totally excited and not have seen each other. Or any number of things.

[HappyMommy2]

I agree that there could have been *many* other reasons, and not necessarily evil intentions!

Perhaps the other kids are shy, or nervous about the first day of school. Maybe they are scared or nervous. Maybe they are just thinking about something in their heads. Maybe they just saw their parents in a fight. Maybe their dog just died. You just never know.

I, personally, would not tell/teach my kid to assume something bad about these other kids, that they are mean or don't want to talk to little kids. That makes a LOT of assumptions, and wouldn't make me or my kid feel good about ourselves!

[meemee]

well i've been on both ends. i've been the mother of a child who was ignored. i've been the mother of the same child grow up and 'ignore' the other child after acknowleding them.

this is life. this is how it is. little kids follow big kids. big kids try to get away. not all but some. during summer when parks and recs have their program of watching K age children and up - i've seen some 'extreme' behaviour. when my dd was 3 or 4 i've seen most of the kids ignore my dd. and yet i have seen some really love to play with my dd. if they got her to do something funny they called their other classmates to watch and then they joined in. of course my dd would lap up all the attention.

and on the other hand when dd was being mobbed by little kids who all wanted to copy her - thus affecting her play (she had to change so the kids wouldnt hurt themselves) .

i'll admit it would have been nice had they just acknowledged him but i think excitement might have been the key. i am sure the story is going to be quite different in a month or so after they get all used to each other. wont surprise me if at one point if your house is on the way, the older kids stopping by to pick up your child.

one of the things i have brought my dd to accept that sometimes life just is. that's the way it is. there is no question of unfair or rude. our kids are also v. resilient. their hurt might just be a momentary reaction. they move on.

there is no wrong or right in such a situation. it just is. since as someone else pointed out the other kids are learning too.

[Linda on the move]

I don't totally buy the "this is life" thing.

There are kids ranging from 5 to 13 on our street, and for the most part, they all play together.

(Except for the 13 year old, who is VERY unsocial, but she's mine so I can't really say anything too negative about it).

In our street, it's a mix of boys and girls and the girls tend to be the "you gotta play nice or I'll tell your mother" influence. I'm not saying girls are always like that, but these girls tend to have a little more empathy and self control than the boys.

I hope it gets better and I hope he connects with some nice kids in his class. Some one fun to play with at recess is VERY important!