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Do people make you feel stupid for not CIO? - Page 2

post #21 of 56
yes! My coworker used to constantly tell me-- oh you'll change your mind about CIO. What's the deal with people thinking that CIO is something that *everyone* does? I don't know a person in my family that has done that.
post #22 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by odenata View Post
Random people who ask, "Does he sleep well?" just get a vague, "Everything is going fine." It's usually just something to make small talk, anyway.
I totally get where you're coming from, and you're definitely avoiding a lot of headaches that way!

For myself, I always feel like I need to tell the truth--that is, that DD is almost 11 months and still wakes at least 2 X a night, and sometimes has pretty bad nights. I guess I want to put it out there that many, many mothers don't CIO--that it's not the miracle method so many people make it out to be. I also hold out hope of finding other AP mothers that way--as if, by admitting the truth, I'll get the other person to sigh in relief and tell me they, too, were up at 4 in the morning and really need a coffee.

No one's done that yet, though. So maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment.
post #23 of 56
My mom always has the classic argument, "you two (my sister and I) turned out just fine when i did it!" and I tell her "yes, and my son will turn out alright too" Whenever anyone else says anything I ignore it or try to tell them gently that it's not up for discussion
post #24 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tway View Post

For myself, I always feel like I need to tell the truth--

....

--as if, by admitting the truth, I'll get the other person to sigh in relief and tell me they, too, were up at 4 in the morning and really need a coffee.
Yep, me too. I like giving people "permission" to be honest with me.
post #25 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tway View Post
I totally get where you're coming from, and you're definitely avoiding a lot of headaches that way!

For myself, I always feel like I need to tell the truth--that is, that DD is almost 11 months and still wakes at least 2 X a night, and sometimes has pretty bad nights. I guess I want to put it out there that many, many mothers don't CIO--that it's not the miracle method so many people make it out to be. I also hold out hope of finding other AP mothers that way--as if, by admitting the truth, I'll get the other person to sigh in relief and tell me they, too, were up at 4 in the morning and really need a coffee.

No one's done that yet, though. So maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment.
I'd commiserate with you!

I'm not often in a group of people whom I don't know very well, but any time the subject of babies and sleep come up, I am honest. I say that he wakes up several times a night to nurse, which is a natural and NORMAL part of being a human baby. I also try to throw in terms like "nighttime parenting," "following his cues," and "sleeping through the night is a developmental milestone just like walking/talking, etc." He'll do it when he can, without the need for me to abandon him during the night.

We don't get nearly as many comments/judgements from family now w/DS2 as we did when DS1 was a baby. I guess they see that DS1 actually DID learn to sleep through the night w/out CIO, he isn't in our bed anymore and we didn't have to "teach him who is boss" to get him to sleep in his own bed, and he did wean before he was old enough to vote.
post #26 of 56
The only person to suggest I stop feeding my baby if she wakes up in the middle of the night with the underlying implication that I should let her cry (which is rarely now, maybe once a night around 4 or 5) was some lady on the bus who I guess was trying to make conversation and she says "She wakes up because she knows you'll feed her." complete with waggling eyebrows that insinuated my baby was plotting against me, in a devilish attempt to wreak havoc on my sleep cycles. (muwah ha ha ha ha!)

And I said "Yep."

And sort of cocked my head at her. I mean, no kidding. She's not waking up because she thinks I'll play patty cake!

If I or DH can't be bothered to feed a baby once or twice in the night we really should have gotten a pet you feed once a day, like a fish. Or maybe a boa constrictor, they only eat like once a week. But we had a baby, and until they get a bit older they tend to get hungry in the middle of a 10 hour sleep shift...go figure. They have tummies the size of a quarter.

And you know what, sometimes she's not hungry. Sometimes she just needs a wee cuddle. Like I never wake up scared or lonely in the middle of the night, or just cold and shivery and need a little warm hubby to spoon me back to sleep? Sure. And my poop smells like honey cakes and cinnamon.

I think people who believe CIO is a good idea should have to do it themselves. They should walk the walk. They should go to sleep alone in a dark room, in a cage (because can you really even do CIO if you haven't got a crib to put them in?), on a thin foam rubber mattress over a planked surface, with no blankets or pillows (god forbid you run the risk of SIDS while your baby cries him or herself into a snoty nosed hysteria), in stuffy footed pijamas or a sleep sack, about an hour before they are really tired, while their best friends are in the living room having what sounds like a really good time, and they should be forced to stay there, all alone, for ten - twelve hours with no food or water, no entertainment, no light, and no one to talk to or books to read, no warm body to snuggle into, nothing. See how well they sleep.

Just once and I bet it will cure them of CIO for life.

I mean really...why should your baby suck it up and go with it if you can't?
post #27 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy212 View Post
My mom always has the classic argument, "you two (my sister and I) turned out just fine when i did it!" and I tell her "yes, and my son will turn out alright too" Whenever anyone else says anything I ignore it or try to tell them gently that it's not up for discussion
I always tell my mother when she starts in with that crap: "Is that why my sister in therapy since she's 15 and I have a range of eat disorders that plague me to this day? Because we turned out alright? Do you think that's why I need opiate strength sedatives to 'soothe myself to sleep' most nights, or why my sister needs to have a man in her bed to get any sleep? because we turned out A-okay? hmmmm, interesting logic, mom."

DH tried that line with me after a visit with his mom who spent most of the vacation pushing her views of spanking , he says "My parents spanked me and I turned out okay! I don't see what the big deal is."

I finally stopped biting my tongue and rolling my eyes one day and said "Honey, I love you, but you are not okay. I know I am not perfect either, but you are FAR from being okay, and I do NOT want our children to grow up with the communication and relationship issues that you have as a clear and obvious result of your being physically and mentally abused throughout your childhood. You are not okay, and you can stop feeding into that myth now, you're almost FORTY!"

Grandparents have an amazing gift for rewriting history to suit their own justifications. Doesn't mean we have to believe them, KWIM?

I'll proudly say it:

My baby wakes up in the middle of night. Sometimes lots. Sometimes it feels like as soon as she has a run of nights where she sleeps straight through, that's when my FIVE YEAR old will suddenly have a bout of nightmares and need constant water and back rubbing and lullabyes. So much so that even when they both sleep through the night, I'm still up checking on them every four or five hours to see their chests rising and falling. It happens.
post #28 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakeber View Post
The only person to suggest I stop feeding my baby if she wakes up in the middle of the night with the underlying implication that I should let her cry (which is rarely now, maybe once a night around 4 or 5) was some lady on the bus who I guess was trying to make conversation and she says "She wakes up because she knows you'll feed her." complete with waggling eyebrows that insinuated my baby was plotting against me, in a devilish attempt to wreak havoc on my sleep cycles. (muwah ha ha ha ha!)

And I said "Yep."

And sort of cocked my head at her. I mean, no kidding. She's not waking up because she thinks I'll play patty cake!

If I or DH can't be bothered to feed a baby once or twice in the night we really should have gotten a pet you feed once a day, like a fish. Or maybe a boa constrictor, they only eat like once a week. But we had a baby, and until they get a bit older they tend to get hungry in the middle of a 10 hour sleep shift...go figure. They have tummies the size of a quarter.

And you know what, sometimes she's not hungry. Sometimes she just needs a wee cuddle. Like I never wake up scared or lonely in the middle of the night, or just cold and shivery and need a little warm hubby to spoon me back to sleep? Sure. And my poop smells like honey cakes and cinnamon.

I think people who believe CIO is a good idea should have to do it themselves. They should walk the walk. They should go to sleep alone in a dark room, in a cage (because can you really even do CIO if you haven't got a crib to put them in?), on a thin foam rubber mattress over a planked surface, with no blankets or pillows (god forbid you run the risk of SIDS while your baby cries him or herself into a snoty nosed hysteria), in stuffy footed pijamas or a sleep sack, about an hour before they are really tired, while their best friends are in the living room having what sounds like a really good time, and they should be forced to stay there, all alone, for ten - twelve hours with no food or water, no entertainment, no light, and no one to talk to or books to read, no warm body to snuggle into, nothing. See how well they sleep.

Just once and I bet it will cure them of CIO for life.

I mean really...why should your baby suck it up and go with it if you can't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakeber View Post
I always tell my mother when she starts in with that crap: "Is that why my sister in therapy since she's 15 and I have a range of eat disorders that plague me to this day? Because we turned out alright? Do you think that's why I need opiate strength sedatives to 'soothe myself to sleep' most nights, or why my sister needs to have a man in her bed to get any sleep? because we turned out A-okay? hmmmm, interesting logic, mom."

DH tried that line with me after a visit with his mom who spent most of the vacation pushing her views of spanking , he says "My parents spanked me and I turned out okay! I don't see what the big deal is."

I finally stopped biting my tongue and rolling my eyes one day and said "Honey, I love you, but you are not okay. I know I am not perfect either, but you are FAR from being okay, and I do NOT want our children to grow up with the communication and relationship issues that you have as a clear and obvious result of your being physically and mentally abused throughout your childhood. You are not okay, and you can stop feeding into that myth now, you're almost FORTY!"

Grandparents have an amazing gift for rewriting history to suit their own justifications. Doesn't mean we have to believe them, KWIM?

I'll proudly say it:

My baby wakes up in the middle of night. Sometimes lots. Sometimes it feels like as soon as she has a run of nights where she sleeps straight through, that's when my FIVE YEAR old will suddenly have a bout of nightmares and need constant water and back rubbing and lullabyes. So much so that even when they both sleep through the night, I'm still up checking on them every four or five hours to see their chests rising and falling. It happens.
I these posts.
post #29 of 56
My daughter is older - I saw this in new posts - but when she was a baby, CIO was recommended a few times and I used a tactic I heard here on MDC. I'd say "Oh, no, that's not acceptable in our family. I mean, we'd never do that with an adult who needed our help. You'd never tell granny or your sick dad. 'Hey, you're old/sick so you just need to learn to lay there in the dark until morning hungry or wet or upset. I really need my sleep! You just have to learn to deal with the situation on your own.' That's just so cruel!"
post #30 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby2 View Post
People are insane. That's the only logical solution that I can come to on this subject.
Me too. Reading through these posts is deeply heartbreaking. I find it such a pathetic commentary on our culture that *we* (non-CIO users) are the odd ones and represent an "alternative" way. It really reminds me that CIO, among other common parenting practices, is one of the subtle but deep roots of so much ill in society (at the very least, the epidemic level of adult sleep problems). I know that sounds like a grandiose statement...but I truly believe that many common, average, mainstream parenting ways are just creating such broken, wounded souls out there who then go and pass on the insanity because it's all they know.

In my husband's case, he has always had this odd melancholy in the evening, which starts at sunset. He also to this day has a really hard time getting himself into bed and to sleep, even when he's exhausted, and then gets insomnia pretty frequently. Now that we have a baby and we started discussing how sick CIO is, it clicked with him that he was CIOed and he believes that is the root of his sleep disturbances and evening sadness. In his case, his father forced his mom to put the babies down at night, close the door and not go back til morning. She says that he would lock the door to keep her from going in there, and once she had to physically fight him and break down the door to get to them. So, so sad.
post #31 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakeber View Post
The only person to suggest I stop feeding my baby if she wakes up in the middle of the night with the underlying implication that I should let her cry (which is rarely now, maybe once a night around 4 or 5) was some lady on the bus who I guess was trying to make conversation and she says "She wakes up because she knows you'll feed her." complete with waggling eyebrows that insinuated my baby was plotting against me, in a devilish attempt to wreak havoc on my sleep cycles. (muwah ha ha ha ha!)
For me, it was our family doctor who said that at 6 months DS does not need to eat during the night and he'll never learn to sleep if I don't leave him in a room by himself and let him "self soothe" when he wakes. My parents at least suggested that I make sure he is not hungry before leaving him to CIO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy212 View Post
My mom always has the classic argument, "you two (my sister and I) turned out just fine when i did it!" and I tell her "yes, and my son will turn out alright too" Whenever anyone else says anything I ignore it or try to tell them gently that it's not up for discussion
I have figured out that the only thing people mean when they say "turned out just fine" is "survived infancy/childhood." My recent CIO conversation with my parents have made me realize where a lot of my longterm sleep issues have come from. Of course it doesn't help that DH sleeps very well, despite being a CIO baby.

I generally don't like talking about sleep with people and I never bring it up unless they are complaining about their little one's sleep. But I get asked all the time and although I try to deflect the questions, I am generally honest. However, I cringe whenever my DH mentions anything about our sleep habits to anyone because of course that opens up the topic for discussion. he says he wants people to realize that our baby does not sleep alone for 12 hours and that is normal. So his intentions are at least somewhat good (although sometimes it's just to complain) but usually these discussions end with the other parties telling us that we are doing it wrong and we should just let them CIO. I just wish he was better prepared to defend our position.
post #32 of 56
I all of your responses!

I just have to add that the CIO issue is so much easier to deal with when you're on your second (or more) baby. Just hang in there and stick to your guns with your first and it will get easier.

For someone to make me feel "stupid" for not CIO I have to actually care what they think... which I don't.

My DD, who is 3, still wakes 1x per night and gets in bed with DH and I around 3:30 AM. My DS, who is 3 mo., of course wakes 1-2x per night to be fed (more if having a growth spurt). We meet their needs at night, the same as we do during the day. It works for us. End of story.
post #33 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jecombs View Post

For someone to make me feel "stupid" for not CIO I have to actually care what they think... which I don't.
They don't really make me feel stupid, I guess, I just want them to know I'm not and I really do know what I'm doing!
post #34 of 56
No one has suggested cry-it-out to me (yet), maybe they assume I am doing it or they don't want to piss me off (I intimidate a lot of people ). However, I have had several people respond with surprise when I mention my 9 month old is still waking at night and like the OP, occasionally many times a night. Typically it is 1-2 times now, but when she is teething or just off for whatever reason, yup still have those 5 times a night ones here and there. But yeah, folks surprised at 1-2 times, which seems like it should be the norm to me honestly, aren't their babies hungry enough to still wake once? My DD has never been thrilled about sleeping though, so that's definitely part of it too. At least one of the parents I work with though commiserates as his daughter is 6 I think and still wakes up fairly frequently at night and was like mine as an infant, so he gets it at least
post #35 of 56
I had people asking if she was sleeping through the night and I'd just cheerfully reply 'nope, not yet! she still wakes x amount of times' and most people asking were people who knew me so they knew better than to suggest ways to stop the waking because they'd get an earful about how I'd NEVER leave her completely alone for 12 hours a day because she NEEDS me physically, mentally and emotionally and therefor treat her the same at night.

I generally avoid strangers as I have social anxiety so the people I am in contact with knew my position long before kiddo was even able to cry. I'm pretty sure my husband is the only one who brought up CIO... that didn't last long either.
post #36 of 56
Not here either. When DD was little we stated that we have a "no-cry policy" in our house. That has changed a little now she's older - now we say we have a "no babies crying" policy - because 5-year-olds cry for different reasons and I can't honestly say that I always drop everything to soothe her if, for instance, she's in tears because she can only find her GREEN hair clip...

I find if I'm confident about stating how we do things, there's not a lot people can say. Granted our families tend to not be TOO pushy!

We also of course have our DD to point to when people say "you're creating a monster" or "you'll be sorry" in reference to the fact that we choose to co-sleep with DS. She DID "turn out fine" (so far!) and sleeps through the night, unless there's a very good reason not to.
post #37 of 56
I agree, these sort of people do not make me feel dumb, they make themselves look dumb and neglectful... Mostly no one approachs me with this sort of thing because my beliefs are widely known by everyone in my circle. Also if I debate this sort of thing I ALWAYS win the argument with science based research and facts.
post #38 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by P.J. View Post
In my husband's case, he has always had this odd melancholy in the evening, which starts at sunset. He also to this day has a really hard time getting himself into bed and to sleep, even when he's exhausted, and then gets insomnia pretty frequently. Now that we have a baby and we started discussing how sick CIO is, it clicked with him that he was CIOed and he believes that is the root of his sleep disturbances and evening sadness. In his case, his father forced his mom to put the babies down at night, close the door and not go back til morning. She says that he would lock the door to keep her from going in there, and once she had to physically fight him and break down the door to get to them. So, so sad.
I am so sorry about that with your husband. However, I do have to say that DS, who NEVER CIO'd, is the same way! There could be a genetic component.
post #39 of 56
My mom, who can NOT understand my parenting choices ("You just make things so much harder for yourself") has not said anything to me specifically in a long time about letting my DD CIO. She does throw in little digs here and there by saying things like "Jim and Cindy are such good parents. Their baby is so well trained".

I know at least two children that were 'sleep-trained' based on the "BabyWise" book (for those not familiar, it puts babies as young as 8 weeks, maybe younger, on a very strict feed/play/sleep schedule). Both of the children, one is 10 yo and the other is 3 yo, are now extremely insecure and have some serious issues. The 10 year old has been described as sad, lonely and almost dark. The 3 year old is extremely insecure, cries all the time and clings to her mom for dear life. And both their mothers still push "BabyWise" claiming it is a must...such a disconnect. And these are the mothers that look at me like I'm stupid...

DD is almost 10 mo and I couldn't imagine placing her in a crib and shutting the door behind me, saying 'good luck, see ya in the morning'. I don't know how people do it....I don't want to know! I'm going to go hug my little girl now!
Happy Friday!!!

-Nicole
Mama to DD (11/09)
post #40 of 56
Oh man, I needed this thread!!

Ds is 8 weeks old on Monday. He's sleeping from 9:30pm-4am then from 4:20-ish am-7am. Every damn person tells either me or Ds what a 'good' baby he is. As if him being asleep during hours x,y,z means anything!!! What I wouldn't give for an extra wake up during the night to get a nice chunk of afternoon with a napping baby!!

This weekend I had an evening with two mamas of 13-15 month olds who swear by CIO. Their kids that can 'sleep anywhere' and were CIO'ed at 12 weeks were put upstairs at a house they'd never been to, the door was shut and they were left for the hour I was there to scream and cry. They were still awake and screaming crying when I left.
The other mama there has a baby a few hours younger than Ds. She's doing babywise. Her little one was fed a paci as it wasn't three hours since her last meal. Meanwhile all the crying babies had my boobs leaking through layers of bra, nursing pads, a shirt, and the moby.

It's sad that a baby's worth is determined by how long they sleep.
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