5 year old doesn't like kindergarten - Page 2

[angelandmisha]

Originally Posted by LauraN

I agree with pps who say pull her out since you can. If she chooses, or you want her to, she can try again in a couple of years when maturity brings independence more naturally. I'm a big believer in not teaching hard lessons about things that will come more easily with maturity. Independence is one of those things. I now have two very indepentent kids (ages 6 and 8) and one still-dependent 3 yr old.
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[babyjaguar]

Thanks guys! I also agree with LauraN. My son never wanted to go to school and this year he decided to give it a try and his independence just amazes me. He just turned 7 yesterday. He used to be extremely attached and shy and I never pushed him to do anything and one day he was just ready. My daughter thought she was ready and clearly is not. Part of me wants her to give it more time but I agree with what one of the other mothers said about CIO. How is this any different? I don't want her to say she likes it just because she feels defeated. I am curious about the comment made by the 2nd grade teacher who plans on homeschooling. What sort of experiences in particular, as a teacher, made you come to this conclusion?

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by babyjaguar

Thanks guys! I also agree with LauraN. My son never wanted to go to school and this year he decided to give it a try and his independence just amazes me. He just turned 7 yesterday. He used to be extremely attached and shy and I never pushed him to do anything and one day he was just ready. My daughter thought she was ready and clearly is not. Part of me wants her to give it more time but I agree with what one of the other mothers said about CIO. How is this any different? I don't want her to say she likes it just because she feels defeated. I am curious about the comment made by the 2nd grade teacher who plans on homeschooling. What sort of experiences in particular, as a teacher, made you come to this conclusion?

I don't really have strong feelings that you need to keep her in, just to be clear.

But no, I don't think crying at school is the same as CIO, if the teacher is reasonably compassionate. A kindergarten aged child first of all does understand object permanence and that mummy and daddy love her and are at home when the school part is over, and all that.

Second, she's not alone abandoned in the dark. She's in an environment that offers a lot to do and experience. If her teacher mentioned being sad about her upset, that's a good sign that the teacher really is paying attention and cares.

So to me it's just - not the same. You do still have to decide what's best but I don't think we need to draw these kinds of comparisons.

[babyjaguar]

Yes GuildJenn, you are right. I definitely see the difference. I also just received an email from her teacher saying NO TEARS TODAY!!! I think it is because I told her Monday is a short day so she wasn't so worried about missing me. She tells me all the time how her teachers are the "nicest ladies in the world" so I'm definitely not worried about a lack of compassion the only issue is she misses Mom.

[MJB]

I sent my oldest to public K at 5.5 and while he didn't have such a hard time, he was exhausted when he got home and crying when I got him up every morning. After a disappointing parent-teacher conference (where it became clear to me that the teacher didn't know my son at all; she hadn't even assessed his skills 6 weeks into the year!) I pulled him out and HSed the rest of the year. We put him in public 1st the next year and he did great, didn't have any trouble at all. We moved this year and he didn't like his new school (and after observing the class, I understand why) so we are back to HSing for 2nd.

My youngest is in K now and is doing great, but I would pull him out if he was miserable.

[TiredX2]

I'm glad to hear she had a no cry day today.

While I know the teacher wants to minimize anxiety by quick drop-offs, I think you and she may need to evaluate if that is actually minimizing your DD's anxiety. When DD started school (6.5 and 2nd grade) that was also the teachers policy. Drop-off at the door and no parent volunteers for the first 3-4 weeks while everyone got settled. The teacher saw within the first week, though, that that was NOT going to work for DD. We talked with DD about what was hard for her and she said that it was mostly how very long it was to be away from her family (it was full day). So, she figured that she could deal with 3 hours max away from her family. Since DS was with me, DP started going in every day for lunch and recess. I picked DD up from school every day and if she needed a drop in, I would do that as well. Knowing she would see one of us within 3 hours made it so she could handle the day. Within a few weeks she wasn't crying at all and eventually she told DP he didn't need to come to lunch every day anymore (well, he actually asked because she had started completely ignoring him). I really appreciated the teacher recognizing that it was something DD needed to ease into.

Is there anyway you could do something similar? Does DD have snack at a consistent time? Is there a story time, or something like that you could come in for? I noticed with DD that no other kids were jealous OR decided to act up because they just didn't have that *need*.

I totally encourage you to homeschool, I just don't want your DD to get the idea that you don't think she is *able* to do it. If you decide you are ready to homeschool, I would just explain that YOU made a mistake letting her go before your FAMILY was ready for her to go and emphasize that if she would like to try it when she is older, like DS, then she can then. And then... enjoy!

[angelandmisha]

Well, I'm the 2nd grade teacher who plans to homeschool and the mother who brought up CIO.

My point of comparison to CIO is really this: the same stress hormones must flood the body/brain of a child who is distressed over being in K, and comfort by a teacher, while obviously better than being left alone in a cold, dark room, not knowing whether your parents are coming back or not, is still not the same as the comfort and presence of a parent. So given that stress is detrimental to babies, setting up their brain chemistry differently if exposed to it frequently enough, and harmful to the health of adults, who are quite able to understand the subtle dynamics of most any given situation, stress must also not be the preferred state for a young child to find themselves in. The connection just occurred to me as I was reading this thread and thinking about another thread I read(elsewhere) about dropping a child off at preschool and most of the responses to the concerned mother were that all kids cry lots at being left at school, but they'll get over it. Somehow, even though that's the general consensus/experience it just didn't feel right to me. So I thought I'd pose the question here where I know mothers are adamantly against CIO.

Now as to why I'm homeschooling. I felt generally unprepared to teach in the classroom and not because I wasn't diligent. What I expected to find in teaching was that there would be a very clear expectation for what the students should be learning and that there would be consistency across the classrooms of any particular grade level. What I found was that while a district may have very particular notions about what should be going on in the classroom, the reality of each classroom varied widely. For the district's ideas to be implemented, the classroom teacher needed to buy in to what they were trying to do. I didn't see that happen much. What mostly happened was that teachers taught the same things in the same ways they always had. Not to say that they weren't well-meaning or even good teachers, but I realized that it's really a crapshoot as far as your own kids go. Their educational experience will depend greatly upon which teachers and which school they go to and can vary greatly from year to year within the same school. I wasn't able to get to know the kids particularly well, and saw that the general approach really didn't seem to work for lots of the kids. The most intellectually curious kids didn't really have the opportunity to explore their ideas, interests and the struggling ones weren't really able to receive the one on one time and attention that they needed to succeed. The pacing of the day(time requirements to be spent on each subject area) didn't seem to give kids enough time to really delve into their interest in a subject or explore as much as they needed or wanted to. The children didn't have much ability to be in charge of their own learning and pursue what interested them about the subject matter. I didn't see a very integrated, interdisciplinary approach. And this was all before I had a child or started reading about homeschooling and unschooling. I feel that for me and my family, homeschooling will be a much better and satisfactory fit for our educational desires. I have also begun to question exactly the purpose of a state administered education and am resistant to it. I think necessarily it will promote the purposes and viewpoints of the state, which may or may not align with what I want my child to learn or how to think. So, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that there is no way I will send my child to a public school and don't really see us trying a private school either. And honestly, the more I think about it, read about it and observe my own child, the more convinced I am of that and alarmed by what is going on with our society, beginning with the schooling experience. So, those are just my personal thoughts, but you did say that you lean towards homeschooling/unschooling, so you may share some of the same concerns or may have other reasons for wanting to pursue homeschooling for your family.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, I think if you trust your instincts, you'll make the right choice for each of your children.

[angelandmisha]

Originally Posted by TiredX2

I'm glad to hear she had a no cry day today.

While I know the teacher wants to minimize anxiety by quick drop-offs, I think you and she may need to evaluate if that is actually minimizing your DD's anxiety. When DD started school (6.5 and 2nd grade) that was also the teachers policy. Drop-off at the door and no parent volunteers for the first 3-4 weeks while everyone got settled. The teacher saw within the first week, though, that that was NOT going to work for DD. We talked with DD about what was hard for her and she said that it was mostly how very long it was to be away from her family (it was full day). So, she figured that she could deal with 3 hours max away from her family. Since DS was with me, DP started going in every day for lunch and recess. I picked DD up from school every day and if she needed a drop in, I would do that as well. Knowing she would see one of us within 3 hours made it so she could handle the day. Within a few weeks she wasn't crying at all and eventually she told DP he didn't need to come to lunch every day anymore (well, he actually asked because she had started completely ignoring him). I really appreciated the teacher recognizing that it was something DD needed to ease into.

Is there anyway you could do something similar? Does DD have snack at a consistent time? Is there a story time, or something like that you could come in for? I noticed with DD that no other kids were jealous OR decided to act up because they just didn't have that *need*.

I totally encourage you to homeschool, I just don't want your DD to get the idea that you don't think she is *able* to do it. If you decide you are ready to homeschool, I would just explain that YOU made a mistake letting her go before your FAMILY was ready for her to go and emphasize that if she would like to try it when she is older, like DS, then she can then. And then... enjoy!

These sound like really good ideas as well and I agree about talking with her about your mistake and your family not being ready. Good ideas.

[pregnant@40]

I don't believe that keeping her in a few more days is akin to CIO. Rather, it could be that she will miss out on something she could eventually really love if you take her out prematurely. However, you know your kid best & in your gut you will know what to do.

[Marimami]

I do believe that for some kids it is very similar to CIO. My daughter attended a wonderful preschool and pre-K. This place is everyone's dream school. Holistic, child-led, emphasis on outdoor exploration, organic snacks, small classes, everything you can imagine hoping for your kids!

She had a difficult transition in preschool but she bonded well with her teacher and we got through it because I thought she enjoyed herself. Pre-K was in the class right next door, same kids, etc. and she was never happy to be there. Never. Sure, she had long since stopped crying, but when I finally pulled her out of pre-K (for many reasons), we only then really learned how she really felt. She had been trying so hard to put up a strong front but nearly every moment at school was causing her tremendous anxiety. Her teachers never saw it, and it took us too long to realize it.

I have never once regretted pulling her out! It's been 1.5 years now, and DD still talks about how unhappy she was the whole time. Yes, she had some fun times and good memories, but overall it was a horrible situation for her. I don't think her teachers really believed that she was as miserable because she always put on the good front to just get through the day. She would fall apart when she came home every. single. day.

So, I am very sensitive to the people who claim that kids just get over it and that it's not CIO at all. Based on my experiences with my child, I believe that her stress reaction was actually quite like CIO. She eventually quieted down and was a "good girl" but that's just what CIO does for babies too, right?

I really regret sending her, and I have never once regretted pulling her out. We will happily homeschool for as long as she needs it. After 1.5 years, she is only just now able to take classes on her own without me or DH in the class with her. She truly was suffering some post-traumatic stress, and we got through it by bringing her in more closely to us and homeschooling, not by forcing her to stay in school.

If she decides to go to school again, we will support her. But, for now I feel like we are all just finally whole again after that experience.

Good luck, OP!

Holli

[camracrazy]

When I started out, I was the only member of my family who homeschooled. I had other family members try to throw a wrench in the works by saying stuff to dd like, "When you go to school ...." or "Next year you'll go to school". DD kept talking about going to school. Most of her preschool class was going to school (we did have one homeschooling family in her preschool the second year she was there). The books we saw about starting school focused on public schoool.

I asked her what exactly she thought she would do at school. It turns out that she 1) wanted to ride the school bus (that wouldn't happen as we are only 3-4 blocks from school) and 2) she saw the playground outside and thought that they spent a lot of time out there.

I knew that she would need interactions with other kids, because she likes to be social. We joined a HS group, HS Daisy Scouts, and a soccer league. From those groups we made friends that we branched off and did other things with. Now dd is in the 4th grade and she had been perfectly content with HS'ing.

There is so much "glamorizing" of the going to K experience that I can see how a little kid would think it was great. And for some it is. I'm sure it sounded great to your dd, but for some reason the reality isn't clicking with her. I wouldn't have a problem with pulling my kid out if I was in your position. I think all day for K is too much anyway!

[babyjaguar]

Oh, the "glamorization" so true. She also wanted to ride the school bus and play at the park! Part of me is glad that I sent them just so that they can see they really aren't missing out, that I'm not just some crazy mean Mom that wants them to miss out on all the fun. All of my kids friends in the neighborhood go to public school so they were always trying to sell my kids on the idea of school, which I think was a big factor, yet when I asked these same kids if they liked school it was always a resounding "NO". I guess misery really does love company. Our families sound so similar camracrazy. Monday was o.k. for her but it was a half day. Last night my son 7 just said very matter of fact "Mom I don't really want to go to school anymore. I want to stay home. This is where I belong". Could the glamour already be wearing off for him as well. I do worry if I pull my daughter out she will soon forget how much she missed me and want to go back. I just can't wait to go pick up my kids. I guess I should mention I have a husband, who, would like to see her stick with it at least a month because he thinks she will change her mind.

[BellaClaudia]

Dear Babyjaguar, biiiiiiiiig hug, you are such a sweet person and great mom that I have no words. I know that only you can make a right decission
here is what I think if it was me (and it might be me as my daughter is set to go next year)..

I am very instinct based and tuned into my daughters feelings and my own experiences from the childhod that for me it would be too traumatic to keep her at this point. I would pull her out immediately. Being rational:
- this is not the end of the world, she wanted to try and you let her so
you did not stop her and you supported her want.
- keeping her misery for longer might actually make deeper mark in her
personality and turn her of in the future from school

I would think to myself that there is always next year and she can come back to school when she will be indeed ready for it just as your son seem to be.

I personally think that 5 is way to young to separate an attached child from a parent to full time school day and I myself am keeping my for another year altoghether at home with delay school start.

Lastly, I feel you are greatest mom and you know what is best for your kids,
you know them best and nobody else should have decide for you and for them what is the right thing to do, if you feel this is right then do what you feel or you will resent yourself and those who advise you. If you stand your grounds then you are true to yourself. There is and will be always tons of people around you and YOU JUST CANT PLEASE ALL OF THEM. and so
you don't have to. You are responsible to your chidren, yourself and God of your choices you make and you want their good and best and nothing less.

If you were to keep your daughter for another week then if it was my situation I would clearly state to her that this is the last week that she is attending and after this week she will be staying home as before.
It is amazing how much I was able to easy up situations with my DD once she knew that she has a choice and she only has to do something for very little time.. it was like flip of switch. once she did not have to she wanted to..

this is reverse psychology .. but not exactly as I am not threatening or forbidding her.. I just say "okay, if you don't like it then it is fine by me we don't have to continue this, but since we paid for this and this lets do one more class or so and then we are out of here okay?" and then she goes to the next class like without a heavy load and is just so happy and then she really has clear mind to decide if she wants or not to continue..
sometimes she does sometimes she does not.

I think that this age is too young just to keep them hostages of their uninformed decissions. She had no idea what she was subscribing too when she bought this backpack.. She had some "mental model" in her mind of what will be happening and wha is happeing is not the same. Therefore she is dissapointed and she wants out. I doubt the week will change much but
the same.. let her know she does not have to be there and she might flip the decission or be curious to do one more week without commiting.

I believe in exposing kids to new environements before hands so they have heads up, with K this is not possible as there is no K testing grounds and no preschool can be the same and espeically homeschooling parents have the challenge of sending a child to new envrionement that they are not familiar with and this is just a lot to deal with for little one.

On a little note about myself: I was so super excited to go to school knowing all my friends from the yard were going and so my older sibblings.. going to that "magical place called school" .. doing homework and all that thing..
and then my mom took me..

I got petrified when the door closed behind me.. all new faces, I did not know anybody, the teacher -some cute lady with sweet smile.. so what. she was not MY mom and I di dnot know her and I had no idea what to do and I was just scared. In my days there were no options of homeschooling
but I defenetely was not school ready back then. I did not know enough of what it really ment to be in a room of strange kids and strange teacher
without my mom at my side and continue for eterninty (aka whole 7 hours ) the only thing that helped was to make a friend. I made a friend at school and ever since I was going to school to see her and I was able to block out everything else and just follow what she was doing and do the same till I learned to breath on my own. That was really really really scary time for m.

[~PurityLake~]

I may be reading this wrong, but it sounds to me as though you're very negative about public school and your fears are sensed by your daughter, despite her initial interest. I also can't understand how you don't know what is going on at school. Why don't you go with her? Be a volunteer. This is highly encouraged in the public school my daughter attends. They want parents involved. Have you gone to open house? For your daughter to be so withdrawn while surrounded by other children and in a stimulating environment makes me wonder how much she was affected by your dislike of public school.

[babyjaguar]

I know it seems like I don't like public schools (due to some of my sarcastic comments, oops) but that is not true. There are definitely some aspects that I am unsure of (like a 7 hour day for a 5 yr old) but if I didn't like school at all I would have never let my kids go. If I think something is bad for my kids they can't do it, period. I think there are many wonderful things about school and I was very enthusiastic the first day because my kids were too, but when she started crying everyday, of course I was hesitant to send her I think any concerned parent would be. I still was very encouraging and hid any fears I might have because I knew that wouldn't help the situation and I was still hoping that these tears were normal for the first week and that she would start loving school. As far as me saying I don't know what's going on let me explain. Yes, I went to the open house and I speak with her teacher daily in person and via email and phone to keep in the know. I have offered to be a volunteer and my school encourages this also. All of these things are completely different than being with my child at home 24/7. I have a very general idea of what is happening compared to how it use to be having her at home. There are two teachers in her classroom and they are not going to allow me to be in the room everyday all day. I didn't mean I don't know ANYTHING that's going on I just meant I don't know EVERYTHING, every detail like when she is at home, and that is an adjustment. I hope this isn't coming across rude I just thought I needed to clarify my previous vague somewhat dramatic statement. She is a very attached girl, introverted, and finds being surrounded by a lot of other kids overwhelming. I knew she might cry a little and be a little afraid, I just wasn't prepared for her to react so intensely. I kept reminding her about how excited she was to start school and all the cool things she was looking forward to. The only thing she may have sensed from me is that I was sad to see her so sad. But I don't speak negatively about school. The only thing I really emphasized in the beginning was that it was going to be a really long day away from me because I knew that was going to be the big issue and huge adjustment. I am happy to report that yesterday was another no tears day!!!! Her teacher said she was all smiles and when I asked her what her favorite part of school was today she said everything!!!! This morning she had no problem going to school. What a relief. When she was still anxious I told her we were going to give it a couple weeks, which my husband and I agreed on, so maybe that made her feel better knowing she still had choices like one of the other mothers suggested. Thank you so much again for all of the support it has been extremely helpful! In the end I have learned to always trust my instinct as a mother.

[babyjaguar]

Another tear free happy day!! I'm glad I gave her a little more time. She really seems to be lovin' it!!

[pregnant@40]

Sensitive kids just find transitions of any kind tough, it's normal and requires time to adjust. These struggles do not correlate w/ the quality of the school, teacher, or program. All kids have to eventually deal w/ that separation from Mom, and sometimes giving them this space can lead to incredible growth, confidence, and self-esteem.

Kindergarten is a nurturing place, and teachers are trained to help kids adapt to this transition. I'm glad that my child has not only a fun school environment, with a teacher that places psychosocial development before academics, but exposure to new ideas and skills. For us, attending public school K has been a wonderful choice.

[~PurityLake~]

Originally Posted by babyjaguar

Another tear free happy day!! I'm glad I gave her a little more time. She really seems to be lovin' it!!

I'm glad she's adjusting and there are no more tears. I didn't say before, but I completely understand the difficulty in no longer knowing everything 24/7 because my 5 year was/is a very high needs, emotional, introverted girl, too.

[Cascadian]

Originally Posted by pregnant@40

Sensitive kids just find transitions of any kind tough, it's normal and requires time to adjust. These struggles do not correlate w/ the quality of the school, teacher, or program. All kids have to eventually deal w/ that separation from Mom, and sometimes giving them this space can lead to incredible growth, confidence, and self-esteem.

Kindergarten is a nurturing place, and teachers are trained to help kids adapt to this transition. I'm glad that my child has not only a fun school environment, with a teacher that places psychosocial development before academics, but exposure to new ideas and skills. For us, attending public school K has been a wonderful choice.

times a million. I really am sensitive to the transmutation of a child's anxiety into denigrating public schooling. Pros and cons to everything.