Please tell me nightweaning gets easier!

[Comtessa]

We're using Jay Gordon's night weaning method. It seems gentle and sensible. We cosleep and DD (16 months) has been nursing all night. It's just not working for me, esp. now that I'm pregnant -- the constant nursing is super painful and it's keeping me awake all night. I'm exhausted all.the.time and something has to change. I don't want to wean altogether, but nightweaning seemed to be a sensible idea at this point.

I thought that this gradual, gentle method would be ok, but boy did I underestimate my determined little toddler. I was in tears for most of the night. The first time I popped her off the breast and tucked it away, she looked at me in horror, pushed her hand into my face and started signing "Milk" in absolute panic. (Like "Maybe Mama just doesn't understand that I need to nurse...") Then, when I said, "we can have milk in the morning, mama's breasts are going night-night now," she absolutely lost it. She must have cried for half an hour, big heartbreaking sobs, and kept trying to pry my breasts out of my shirt to nurse. It was awful... and it repeated every couple of hours All.Night.Long.

I've never ever refused to nurse her before. I feel like the worst mama in the world to distress my baby so much. Please... somebody... just tell me this gets easier and she won't be permanently harmed by it!!!

[porcelina]

They say you need several nights of consistency before behavior will change, so I'm sure it will get better. I totally know how you feel with being pregnant!

That said, we tried to nightwean DS with this plan at 15, 18 months and I think 22 months. Each time, he was up for 2-3 hours at each waking, screaming and crying most of the time. When things didn't improve on the 4th night, I gave up each time. Finally, at around 25 months, he was able to deal with it, and went back to sleep with stories and distraction within about 30 minutes at each wake up (we did "cold turkey" instead of gradual, at that point). Granted, he was waking every 2 hours all night long until then, always wanting to nurse. However, he still held out for the feeding wake-up between 4.30-5.30. We tried on several occasions to get rid of it, but after several weeks of him screaming for an hour between those hours, and often just waking for the day, I gave up. Even pregnant, it was easier to give him that feeding. Now I do 2 mins each side at that wake up and then soy milk, and that works for us.

The weird thing is that he totally gets it during the day -- he tells us, if you wake up at night and it's dark, you go back to sleep. Nursie in the morning! But, at 4.30-5.30 in the morning, there is no rationality or intellectual understanding, it's just an emotional need and he protests adamantly.

Now expecting #2 in a couple of days or weeks, and not sure how it's going to all work out, but know this is what this guy needs for now.

[LadyCatherine185]

We nightweaned via Jay Gordon as well, but we took about a month to do it rather than 10 days. Also, DS was 19 months old and he is ahead verbally so he really understood what was going on.. ("mama is very tired, let's go back to sleep" etc) He never cried once, so I know he was ready. Your DD may not quite be ready, but I understand your exhaustion (we also nightweaned due to pregnancy). I would keep at it, she will eventually "get it" and stop crying, if this is something you really need to do. I will say that nightweaning worked AMAZING for us. DS went from waking every hour to only waking 1-2 times a night by the end of the month, and now (6 months later) even STTN most nights. We also moved him to his own bed and had DH handle wakeups after we nightweaned.

good luck!

[dosergirl]

I have no words of wisdom for you other then thank you for letting me know some things to expect. DD is going to be 12 months next week and night weaning is something that has been crossing my mind now that she is getting older, much like your LO I think she will not handle it well at all.

You are not a terrible mother! I know I would feel the same way because I too have never refused her. Hugs for you mama. Please keep us updated with your progression because I am learning from you all!

[Shanny2032]

I don't know the details of the plan as I have never read it and we did cold turkey. For us it worked SO much better than I thought it would. It was literally like the first time I said "no more milk at night" and stuck to it a light bulb went off for her and she fought the whole thing VERY little. I don't know if it would have been any different had we tried earlier (she is 21 months) or if it was easier because she is very verbal and really can be talked to about things or what but it has been 2, maybe 3 weeks and she is now sleeping through the night - something I wondered if I would ever say! Good luck - I know I just made it sound like a picnic but we did have a few rough nights but sticking it out was so worth it to so I hope it is for you too!

[rzberrymom]

Could your DH help out with cuddling her back to sleep? I found that helped when I nightweaned my DD, since being with me meant nurse nurse nurse.

The first night was the worst for us, but it got better quickly.

[MamaLaura2]

Hi Comtessa,
This will be long! I'm in need of help as well with this same issue. It looks like this age group has a hard time sleeping and I need to be patient in the process. Dont we all wish there was a quick fix? I dont know where we get more patience, but somehow we keep trying. I find that some days one thing works and the next day it doesnt work. Maybe you have heard Elizabeth Pantley call it a dance of 1 step forward and 2 steps back. I feel like that. It feels like a lonely place when you're in it but it must get better.

I'll share with you what I've done so far. My son is 17 months old and breastfeeding to sleep. I'm 4 months pregnant and want to be done nursing him to sleep. I've thought about CIO many times but it wouldnt work. My strong-willed child just cries forever and it goes against my instincts and hurts me too much. I dont want a disconnected child so I choose to stay attached. I'll tell you that I continue to try to help my son to sleep instead of ignore him because there are so many ppl out there telling me it gets better, this too shall pass and evidence from happy kids I know. I've followed Elizabeth Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solution plan off and on and just read her Toddler and preschool book. It is very encouraging and helpful to understand babies sleep and how to establish a routine for both nap and bedtime. But it takes much longer with my son than what she says. Here is the latest.

Since being pregnant, I can only nurse for 5-10 minutes until it hurts. I have been very gradual with weaning him and shortening the feedings and eliminated feedings during the day. We stay busy during the day and out of the house if possible so he doesnt ask for it. Sometimes he was okay with a shorter nursing but recently he knows I'm going to take him off and pushes my hand away. At this point, I dont feel like I have any say in the matter when it comes to taking him off. He wants to nurse forever if we lay down to nurse. I read in Pantley's book that I can nurse in a different place rather than the bed as a way to break the association with nursing to sleep. This worked for the first few nights while I implemented Dr. Gordon's plan.

I followed Dr. Gordon's plan and it helped night wean to some extent. It's been 11 days since we started his plan but we got sick after 4 days and I resorted to nursing in bed when he woke. We co-sleep to put him to bed and then I move him to a mattress on the floor next to our bed once he is asleep a few hrs later when we come to bed. I didnt nurse from 11-5am. It was hard to have my son cry when he wanted to nurse at 2 or 3 am and we were tired but by the third night he wasnt crying as much. He didnt like it that I wouldnt nurse him but would eventually lay down and go to sleep if I pretended I was asleep. Sometimes he took a cup of water as a last resort. Then he got sick with the stomach flu and teething and he is waking up around 4 or 5 am and has to nurse to go back to sleep unless I want to be up at 4am for the day! We at least got the 2am waking eliminated with Gordon's method! I will go back to not nursing him in bed if he wakes before 5am. It will require more long nights of telling him to go to sleep, give him a cup and then pretend I am asleep but I have a dilemma I'll explain next.

I also changed to nursing on the couch in the living room before bedtime as part of his routine and then we go read a book in bed and then lay down and sometimes he goes to bed within the next 20 min. It took him a few nights to adjust. Some nights he would get back up and play. If he isnt ready for bed he will go back to the couch because he wants to nurse again. So based on his temperament, I nurse him again and then take him back to bed or tell him we are done nursing for the night and it's time for bed.

He is waking around 4 or 430 or 455am and gets up and immediately goes to the couch! He is wandering down the hall in the dark to get to the couch which isnt what we want. How do I break him of this? He wont come back to bed and go to sleep. We have now closed the bedroom door and he just cries at the door and wont come to bed. We have tried to hold his blanket in bed so he will stay in bed and he gets so mad that we wont release his blanket. He wont give in and lay down and try to go to sleep. This wakes him up completely. I want to be done nursing during night and early morning hrs but I've resorted to nursing him in the bedroom again just to put him to sleep so I'm not sure how Dr. Gordon's plan suggests weaning that 5am feeding. My next issues is that I've tried nursing him in bed at 5am which I didnt want to resort to but this doesnt put him back to sleep either for another hour so there is no point in offering to nurse him. This is also the case for naps. If I lay down and nurse him, he wants to nurse for a much longer extended nurse and wont let me remove the nipple.

Naps are another struggle right now. I am proactive in giving my son a lot of exercise throughout the day so he is ready for a nap and bedtime. He takes one nap at 10:45am-12:15. I cant push this nap later or he wont take a nap. He has no problem napping in the car but I cant continue to give him a nap with the car running in the AZ heat. I would love to have him nap at home around 12 but havent had success.

Since he was getting up, I tried to have him nap in a packnplay next to me while I laid down in bed and pretended I was asleep. He wouldnt settle down and attempt to lay down. He was so mad that he wasnt able to leave the room. So after becoming exhausted from crying, I knew he would fall asleep nursing while laying down so that's what we did. But I cant let him cry that hard just to exhaust him. I want to teach him that we nurse on the couch for a little bit before nap or bedtime and then we go lay down and relax and fall asleep together.

On another note, I really like the book, "Mothering Your Nursing Toddler". It helps me understand that I cant rush things and this relationship is special and doesnt last forever. But it does tell me that What it may come down to is my toddler just might not be ready to give up nursing to sleep, nursing at night, or cutting back on nursing sessions. At the same time, I am pregnant, and it may be hard for me to continue to nurse so much. Some moms stop trying to implement a new routine and wait a few months to see if their toddlers are ready then. Some moms set just a few limits on nursing and slowly introduce more as their toddlers adjust. This is basically what I'm doing and I feel Now is my time to cut back on nursing to sleep and he will eventually get used to it. It is just going to take a long time.

Hope this can help a little. Let me know if you have anything to add or questions about something I said. I'd love to help if I can...or maybe just relate to your situation.

Maybe there is someone else out there who has had success?

Laura

[BabyMae09]

I don't think she's ready. And she told you that pretty bluntly. I truly think you should wait for now, I really, really do. My DD was driving me crazy too, but I decided to give it another few weeks before trying to nightwean (after realizing she wasn't ready) and guess what? A few weeks later, in the course of TWO nights, she went from waking 8-12 times a night to nurse, to waking no more than 2 times. And it's been that way for a few weeks now.

Please, listen to your daughter I know it's hard, I know your boobs hurt, but from the severity of your daughter's reaction, I'd have a hard time finding any reason to justify continuing to nightwean at this point. You're the grown-up, she's just a baby

I'm sorry if I sound harsh; I'm not trying to. I really do know it's hard, and I really do know you can continue to nurse her at night. Although I am not pregnant, I was planning our wedding while DD was having her waking 8-12 times a night, and I was dealing with health issues as well.

You can do it, I KNOW you can

What helped for me was remembering that she'll only be little once. And so every time I got frustrated, I smiled at her, told her I loved her, and tried to imagine what she'll look like as a teenager THAT made me hold her close and pray for her to stay little

[BabyMae09]

Originally Posted by porcelina

They say you need several nights of consistency before behavior will change, so I'm sure it will get better. I totally know how you feel with being pregnant!


Now I do 2 mins each side at that wake up and then soy milk, and that works for us.

Better for who, the Mama or the Baby?

Soy milk has many negative attributes that a lot of people are not aware of. It's one of the most common allergens, can cause elevated levels of estrogen in anyone who consumes it regularly (leading to fertility problems later in life for men, and breast cancer in women) and on top of all that, vast swaths of the Amazon rain forest are being cut down in order to grow more soybeans.

I'll get off my soapbox now

[BlackSheepPDX]

We nightweaned at 18 months. Our strategy was pretty much "cold turkey," with three nights of me sleeping in another room, and DH taking care of her through the night. She was used to getting comfort from him at night, so that wasn't an abrupt change, and it simply made more sense to remove me from the equation, so he could just offer comfort and water and get her back to sleep. It really wasn't stressful for any of us, and we were able to get away from nursing several times a night, and down to maybe a nursing around 5 am (which in part was due to my rowing schedule of leaving at that time a couple of times a week).

I was going to lose my mind from exhaustion with the multiple times a night nursings from a child who definitely did not need any nutrition during the night. Comfort and a beverage were what she needed, and we were able to provide both without involving my boobs.

[BabyMae09]

Originally Posted by BlackSheepPDX

I was going to lose my mind from exhaustion with the multiple times a night nursings from a child who definitely did not need any nutrition during the night. Comfort and a beverage were what she needed, and we were able to provide both without involving my boobs.

Yes, it was when I introduced more solids to DD's diet that she started sleeping better through the night. And also, when our routine calmed down a lot after our wedding and honeymoon (she was with us on the honeymoon) she went *literally* from waking at least 8 times a night to, the night after we got home from the honeymoon, waking only twice!

So, less stress around her or more solids, one of the two worked!

[RomanGoddess]

I tried Jay Gordon's method one night and gave in after DS sobbed/screamed for half an hour. For me, this method is too long, too drawn out, and misses the point that a 16-month old baby simply can't understand why, if mommy is right there, she can't just give me the breast.

We have a new method and it has worked well from the get-go: I sleep in a different room. When DS wakes up, papa tells him that mommy is not here and that he should go back to sleep. DS does a 2-minute (max) complaining cry and goes to sleep.

We did this 5 nights in a row and it got to the point where DS was just waking up once at about 4AM. Then DH left on a business trip, I'm back in the room with DS and we are back to square one. But I'm not worried. We'll just do the same thing again.

[Super~Single~Mama]

That sounds tough mama! I totally understand why you need to nightwean! And, I think you can be successful - but we didn't use Jay Gordon's method. So I'll tell you what we did, and it worked FAST - and I still think it was pretty gentle. But, my son's was 19mo, and understands every single thing I say to him. His biggest issue was also that he was getting so many calories at night, that was biggest adjustment - him eating tons more during the day.

We just stopped nursing at night. between 12am-5am I would say no, that nursing went night night, and he could have more in the morning. The first night was AWEFUL - b/c he was hungry. But, if I had nursed him, it never would have gotten better. And I was right there, trying to cuddle him, patting his back, shushing him, the whole deal. He woke up twice between 12-5. The next day he ate a TON - which was great! Then he woke up once, and it was still not fun, but not nearly as bad as the first night. The third night, he slept all night. I always offered him a sippy of water at first, but now he never takes it so I don't offer it unless he asks for it.

He doesn't always sleep all night now, but I don't have to nurse him back to sleep. I just cuddle him close, and shush him and we fall back to sleep together.

[Beauchamp]

Comtessa,

Hey there! We were DDC buds. I am soooooooo thinking about night weaning via Jay Gordon, too. We have canines coming in now, and I still nurse to sleep for every nap and bedtime. So, I am so hesitant. I have no advice, just a and I hope it does get better for you. We are TTC again, too.

My major hangups are that I *know* my DD will not understand logic at 3am, and I wonder if she still needs that night time milk, plus I don't want our nursing relationship to really change because she is still my "little baby"...and I worry my supply will tank.

Sigh.

I hope it's going well for you. Keep us posted!

[Astraia]

I've been thinking about nightweaning via Jay Gordon as well, and was coming on here to ask questions about it... Between the two kids I'm up an average of 7 times in an 8 hour period, sometimes less sometimes more (highest count so far is 22 wake ups).

It would be one thing if she was up, nurse briefly, roll over and go back to sleep. But sometimes it's like, 20-45 minutes of nursing and then when I try to leave she starts freaking and shrieking and we're back to square one again... and then her brother wakes up... and then I have a meltdown. And then the entire day sucks because I'm still mad at her and I'm exhausted and she's exhausted. UGH.

(of course, some days I think about weaning entirely- like when she spends the whole day following me around screaming "BOOB!" and crying)

But after reading through.... Yeah, she's not ready. She can barely handle a "please wait" on a good day, nevermind a "Yes I'm here and no you can't" at 2 am. As desperate as I am for sleep, as angry as I can get after being awake for 3 hours in the middle of the night, I think we'd just be awake even MORE if I tried.

[BabyMae09]

Originally Posted by thyra

The first night was AWEFUL - b/c he was hungry. But, if I had nursed him, it never would have gotten better.

Um, if he's hungry, how does nursing him make it *not* any better?

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but not feeding your baby when you know he is hungry is, um, not okay. Ever. Unless you meant he got actual food, not boob.

OP - your daughter isn't ready for nightweaning. She will be, very soon. I promise! Especially if you start offering more solids during the day

My DD likes hummus, bananas, avocado, quinoa, cheese, among other things, and all five of those are great first foods! Unlike the Gerber crud that has high fructose corn syrup in it

PS - When I did try to wean her using the Jay Gordon method, she freaked out too. She was just too young (15 months) to get it. Every Mama who has posted on you thread said they had much better luck at 18, 19, or 22 months. My DD is now 16 months, and voluntarily went from 8-10 times a night to 2, like I said earlier. But it happened because she was READY, and she was ready because she was eating more solids.

[Marissamom]

this may seam like a harsh way to do it, but we stuck my 16 month old in her own room to sleep, and for the first time in her life she slept through the night. and has every night of the two weeks since. I knew we couldn't night wean in the same bed, and if she was in our room she would wake up to climb into our bed after a few hours and help herself all night. I think it was actually the easiest way for her. if she had woken up we would have brought her into our room, and were really expecting that to happen, but it never did. she's sleeping better in her own room then she was in ours, and I don't have her laying across me all night, which was really getting hard on my back as I'm entering my second trimester of pregnancy. It does put my mind at rest too, because I was worried about having both a toddler and a newborn wanting to sleep in my bed.

[LadyCatherine185]

Originally Posted by BabyMae09

Um, if he's hungry, how does nursing him make it *not* any better?

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but not feeding your baby when you know he is hungry is, um, not okay. Ever. Unless you meant he got actual food, not boob.

Some babies get used to having those calories at night, even if they don't necessarily "need" them. At 18 months they can certainly get all of their calories during the day. If you continue to nurse them at night, they will continue to get calories and their body will continue to "need" calories at night. Once their body gets used to not eating during the night, they can sleep much easier.

Once we started nightweaning, my DS started eating a LOT more solids during the day. And once his body got used to not getting calories at night, he didn't need them anymore and he stopped waking up.

[Astraia]

Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185

Once we started nightweaning, my DS started eating a LOT more solids during the day. And once his body got used to not getting calories at night, he didn't need them anymore and he stopped waking up.

This is part of why nightweaning doesn't work for us, I think.... Nigella eats basically nothing during the day despite my best efforts (I always have food out for her, I'm constantly offering things, I'm always trying new foods to see if something really appeals to her, etc) and then is up every 2 hours at night to nurse, and nursing +/- every 2 hours during the day as well. Grr.

And I know if she would NOT nurse at night she'd eat more- once or twice she's slept really soundly and eats like a normal kid the next day- but I can't MAKE it happen.

[LadyCatherine185]

Originally Posted by Astraia

This is part of why nightweaning doesn't work for us, I think.... Nigella eats basically nothing during the day despite my best efforts (I always have food out for her, I'm constantly offering things, I'm always trying new foods to see if something really appeals to her, etc) and then is up every 2 hours at night to nurse, and nursing +/- every 2 hours during the day as well. Grr.

And I know if she would NOT nurse at night she'd eat more- once or twice she's slept really soundly and eats like a normal kid the next day- but I can't MAKE it happen.

for us the only way to make it happen was to stop the nursing at night... "luckily" for me, my milk had started drying up from pregnancy so he gradually got used to less and less milk at night. It didn't take long for him to go from waking every HOUR at night, to only waking 2-3 times... like, within the first week. If it is working for you to nurse all night, don't change it, but if it isn't working, you CAN change it.. it just may take some time/effort and a few tears.