work requiring flu/H1N1 vaccine *update post # 66* - Page 4

[ParisApril]

I hope you win this fight. Only you should have the right to decide what goes into your body.

[minkajane]

Popping in to offer support. I am about to complete school to be a medical assistant and I don't vax. IMO, there is no valid reason whatsoever to try and mandate any kind of medical treatment or medication, period. We shouldn't HAVE to fight so hard and provide paperwork and get lawyers just to exercise our legal right to refuse medical treatment! I can't be forced to donate a kidney to benefit someone else, why is it considered acceptable to try and force me to take a vaccine which supposedly benefits people I'm in contact with?

I don't get the big hooplah with the flu vax anyway. Why is that one specifically pushed so hard? That's arguably the least effective and one of the most dangerous vaxes. Why not push pneumonia or tetanus or whatever. Is it because it has to be done every year and it's easier to get someone to get a pneumonia vax every few years than one they have to get every single year?

[neetling]

Any updates? I'm rooting for you ladies and your coworkers.

[wish]

I am planning to try for the religious exemption since they have made changes to it to include "all" religions. But they are still saying it will go for a board to be decided on. That is just so wrong to me. I don't know how someone else can "approve" my religion. So while I may be able to keep my job for this year I'm not sure what next year will bring. It still has many people at work upset and it seems as though there will be more to things come. I'll keep you all updated!

[swl73]

I'm in a similar position to several of you. I work at a hospital in Maryland and an e-mail was sent to all hospital employees last week announcing a new mandatory flu vaccine policy for all employees. I am so upset - I LOVE my job and hate the thought of leaving it, and yet I really am not comfortable with getting the vaccine.

The e-mail stated that the only exceptions will be for documented medical or religious reasons, with the appropriate documentation included. And even if the exception is allowed, I would have to wear a mask every day for the duration of flu season. Wearing a mask would definitely make my job very challenging. Not to mention, it would be like having a scarlet letter.

My husband and I are also considering trying for another baby soon, and we definitely don't want for me to get the vaccine while I am pregnant. Does anyone know of any evidence regarding what period of time would we
need to wait following my vaccination before trying to conceive, if we
don't want there to be any chance of the baby being exposed to the
vaccine?

Thanks...

[wish]

*update*

Finally a bit of an update from our senior managment group! This was all discussed today in an employee forum.

Starting today exemption forms are available but I will need documentation to support that the exemption is consistent with your religious beliefs/practices. This can be a personal statement. It goes on to say that this request (for exemption) is based on sincerly-held religious beliefs and is not merely a personal preference.

The exemption form will go before an "ethical committee" consisting of human resources, a "spiritual leader", compliance and legal. They will review. If it is approved, I'm ok for this year. They did state to plan that next year no exemptions will be allowed.

If I'm not approved, then yes, they start the termination process.

SMG went on to say it was like saying if the hospital was 100% vaccinated we could save 10 people from dying of the flu. If we make any exceptions to that it's like saying only 8 or 9 people will live. Ugh, nevermind that we have rights!


What do you all think??

Does anyone have a good "personal belief statement" they would share? I'm not going to try a strict religous statement as we are not religous and it would just be too weird.

[ma2two]

Originally Posted by wish

It goes on to say that this request (for exemption) is based on sincerly-held religious beliefs and is not merely a personal preference.

If I'm not approved, then yes, they start the termination process.

Does anyone have a good "personal belief statement" they would share? I'm not going to try a strict religous statement as we are not religous and it would just be too weird.

It sounds like if you want to keep your job, you are going to have to deal with the "weirdness" of saying the vaccine is against your religious beliefs.

[ChristaN]

Thanks for the update. I won't be able to make it to employee forums due to my work/teaching schedule. So, they said that they intend not to allow religious or medical exemptions next year? I guess that I'd better start looking more seriously for another job!

[not now]

I didn't see it mentioned here: Joint Commission (formerly JHACO but they hate being called that) is pushing big time for all staff to receive the flu vax. Has no one heard of the Flu Vaccination Challenge? We all know hospitals bend over backwards to make Joint Commission happy. If the facility has enough of it's staff vaccinated for the flu then JC will "recognize" the facility and we all know how hospitals like recognition.

Physicians aren't required because they aren't staff. Same with vendors and students. Numbers won't be effected if anyone in those three groups don't get the vaccination although most students get it anyway.

[13Sandals]

I was curious if they were making a determination between the flu mist and the inactivated virus? Since the flumist insert states: "FluMist contains live attenuated influenza viruses that must infect and replicate in cells lining the
nasopharynx of the recipient to induce immunity. Vaccine viruses capable of infection and replication can be cultured from nasal secretions obtained from vaccine recipients." and "Virus shedding was evaluated for 21 days by culture of nasal swab specimens"

Its hard to believe they are solely interested in patient safety if they are not taking this into account, especially around immunocompromised individuals. I doubt they are asking employees who take flumist to stay home for a few weeks.

[wish]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

Thanks for the update. I won't be able to make it to employee forums due to my work/teaching schedule. So, they said that they intend not to allow religious or medical exemptions next year? I guess that I'd better start looking more seriously for another job!

SMG just said to expect that there will be no exemptions for next year, but didn't specifically say no to all medical or religous. Seriously, even if they eliminate all the religous exemptions (which I doubt they can), how can they force it on someone with a true medical condition (ie: allergy to eggs)? I too am also looking around for new employment. Even if I keep my job through this season, it is clear I will be out next year.

To me this is just continuing to spin more and more out of control. I feel like our SMG just isn't listening to the other side of the story or taking our rights into consideration. There is a new excellent post on the blog if you get time to read it. If anyone is interested in reading the blog, please pm me and I will direct you to it.

Also, I think Not Now totally had it right....we love when we get on the good side of Joint Commision.

[wish]

Originally Posted by 13Sandals

I was curious if they were making a determination between the flu mist and the inactivated virus? Since the flumist insert states: "FluMist contains live attenuated influenza viruses that must infect and replicate in cells lining the
nasopharynx of the recipient to induce immunity. Vaccine viruses capable of infection and replication can be cultured from nasal secretions obtained from vaccine recipients." and "Virus shedding was evaluated for 21 days by culture of nasal swab specimens"

Its hard to believe they are solely interested in patient safety if they are not taking this into account, especially around immunocompromised individuals. I doubt they are asking employees who take flumist to stay home for a few weeks.

They did not say if the flu mist was going to be available. As someone just said on our hospital's blog, once they forcefully inject employees, we also become patients. Why do we not have the same rights? And you are totally right, they would never dare ask the employees to stay home after having flu mist.

[rabrog]

I'd be hiring a lawyer and finding anyone who wanted to sue with me. That's just ridiculous. Hospitals try to pull this crap every single year and there's so much other "in house" stuff that's much more likely to infect a patient than the flu.

What do your state laws say?

Jenn

[Jadzia]

I hope the first person who is inevitably injured by a employmer mandated vaccine sues that pants off that employer. Vaccine manufacturers are shielded from lawsuits, but private employers who would require a medical intervention would not be immune from liability.

In fact, I wonder what these employers would do if you first gave them a document to sign that they acknowledge the risks and would be held responsible for damages should they occur. I am pretty sure they would be racing to make sure they have proper exemptions in place in order to cover their behind.

[ChristaN]

I applied for the religious exemption a few days ago. We are told that we will get a written response allowing or disallowing the exemption within five days of the receipt of our request, so I expect to hear in the next week or so.

My supervisor said, and the CEO's note to employees on the employee website also says, that they will evaluate how many exemptions are issued this year and then determine if they intend to do things differently next year. My supervisor's take on it was that, if they got a sufficient %age of us vaccinated this year, they will likely keep things the same for next year but, if they feel like there were too many exemptions, then they will be pushing to remove exemption categories. I guess that they will be willing to fight the legal challenges in that case, then.

[wish]

ChristaN~glad you are still following this! I think I'm going to be in one of your classes coming up this next month Just in case I BLS for my new job someday.

I submitted my religious exemption last week. I handed it in the the nurse in employee health. She was coming out of the office and said "can I hand this in now, or do I need to wait for the first?" She did a half smirk thing and said "you can hand it in now, but no one will look at it till next week". I told her I understood. Hopefully I will hear something next week.

I also did hear that our employer will be providing the flu mist this year. I think a pp pointed out that if employee's have that they will be spreading the vax for a few weeks. Of course that is ok, somehow that doesn't put our patients at danger, unlike us crazies who are refusing the shot.

In the letter from our CEO, he stated that this year they are allowing religious, medical and personal conviction exemptions. Posted along with that was the new policy. I read through the policy and nowhere does it state that you can have a "personal conviction". So, screw it, I emailed the CEO directly. And sure enough he didn't have an answer for me and had to forward it to human resources. When I heard back from Human resources, they thanked me for pointing that out. Needless to say I felt like I still had to do the religious exemption just to cover my butt.

I'll keep everyone updated on what happens this next week. Thanks for the support!

[shoes]

So sad to read others are dealing with this too. I just got a call from my husband at work. He was just approached and told he had to get the flu shot at that very moment or be terminated on the spot. We are in a very bad place right now financially and so losing his job is not an option. He's pretty upset about it. He said he feels violated being forced to have that crap injected into him. I'm so sad about this. He's been working there 3 years now and it has never been an issue before.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by shoes

So sad to read others are dealing with this too. I just got a call from my husband at work. He was just approached and told he had to get the flu shot at that very moment or be terminated on the spot. We are in a very bad place right now financially and so losing his job is not an option. He's pretty upset about it. He said he feels violated being forced to have that crap injected into him. I'm so sad about this. He's been working there 3 years now and it has never been an issue before.

That's BS....you would have a major lawsuit on your hands. No job can tell you succumb to a vaccine on the spot or be fired this very minute. It may be a long drawn out issue like the OP is describing...much is involved including a lot of red tape and politics, but your husband succumbed to bullying and intimidation, whoch is I'm sure what they were counting on. Sorry he felt he needed to give up with no fight

[ChristaN]

Does your dh work in the healthcare industry as well? I'd file a complaint with the EEOC if he has moral or ethical objections to the vaccine and suggest that he has been intimidated or harrassed based upon his beliefs, which are considered religion in the EEOC's interpretation and are, thus, a protected class. If they suddenly demote or fire him they'd be liable for retaliation which is also illegal.