Other kids getting DD (2.5) excited about school.. help - Page 3

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by karne

If I had a philosophy that my children were not allowed to attend school under any circumstances, I would have been honest enough to not downplay their natural curiosity, but rather tell them that despite that, they would never be allowed to choose school. Not being snarky, just saying that I personally feel that if our choices for our children's education are paramount, then we should just be upfront about it because it means that the child's views or wishes essentially do not count, and won't count. You can present it anyway you want to, but in the end, the parent controls the decision making, so why worry about what other kids are doing? It won't ever really matter if there aren't choices or conversation. JMO.

I think this is somewhat fair. If you do not expect to allow your child to go to school, be upfront about it. It may save you and your family a lot of angst-filled hand wringing on whether to try school or not.. FWIW, I think many of us have age limits around such things - I would not allow a child under 10 to choose school unless HSing was clearly not working (and even then it would not be their choice but a family decision), but I would allow an older child. Yes, the same holds true if they were in school. If I as the parent genuinely believed school was for the best, I would not allow a young child to choose HSing.

OP, I must say I slightly regret letting my youngest child (in particular) watch as much TV as she has. All she watches are shows that promote school as great and I find it grating. She has never expressed interest in going to school, but I do find the constant promotion of school grating. It is such a school dominant culture we live in.

I would not limit exposure to generally positive people, though. I would be careful not to link doing worksheets with school - indeed many worksheets are done at home by HSers! I would also not limit contact with friends who talk about schooling, but I would endevour to give a balanced view as time goes on.

[Needle in the Hay]

Originally Posted by Stacey B

As a side note I am also getting tired of how harsh people are in this sub-forum. For me the concept of unschooling was about accepting what was right for each child, if that is true why doesn't extend to other people as well. We are all going to approach our children's learning journeys differently, because of our children, ourselves, and our community. It seems strange to me that the area that is supposed to be discussing the most freedom often has the people with the most narrow views.

Well, the harsh replies seem to be mostly from people who do not unschool, or even homeschool their children, but are keen to point out any perceived hypocrisy they find here. While I think it's fine for people who don't unschool to post in this forum, I do get tired of people who don't unschool coming here to tell us how we're doing it all wrong.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by WindyCityMom

I totally agree. I think I'll go back to being a lurker in this thread and continue reading through previous posts.

Please do not be scared off. Stay!

[Stacey B]

Originally Posted by Needle in the Hay

Well, the harsh replies seem to be mostly from people who do not unschool, or even homeschool their children, but are keen to point out any perceived hypocrisy they find here. While I think it's fine for people who don't unschool to post in this forum, I do get tired of people who don't unschool coming here to tell us how we're doing it all wrong.

In looking back I see what you mean. Honestly I'm just tired of all the angry people I've interacted with in all parts of my life in the past few months...makes a woman want to find a mountain top to live on.

But lets not derail this thread.

[flower01]

Originally Posted by Needle in the Hay

Well, the harsh replies seem to be mostly from people who do not unschool, or even homeschool their children, but are keen to point out any perceived hypocrisy they find here. While I think it's fine for people who don't unschool to post in this forum, I do get tired of people who don't unschool coming here to tell us how we're doing it all wrong.

As someone who is honestly thinking about Unschooling and seeking real advice, honest opinions, and practical tips this is so frustrating. I personally think argumentative comments should be removed. They are not helpful.

[intentfulady]

I think the emotions are similar on each "side"
in discussions/misunderstandings about homeschooling, schooling and unschooling.

Fear being one emotion that is part of the current, much of the time.

Of course This fear is ANOTHER discussion.

It does seem to make sharing and learning more difficult.

However; when I acknowledge the fear as an aspect of the discussion, I find I am able to be as empathetic as I would like and enjoy each perspective.

[baby-makes-3]

This discussion is about a 2.5 year old. At that age, my child wasn't even weaned. She wasn't even totally potty-trained. That's still a baby . It's not at all unreasonable for a mama to want to keep a child that age close by, at least for now. Who would really challenge that?

Parents make decisions every day regarding the welfare of their children. OP wasn't asking for help making one of those decisions at all. She was asking for suggestions in supporting a decision she has already made.

[Linda on the move]

disclaimer: we no longer homeschool/unschool. I clicked on this from the main page. However, when my kids were 2.5 we were planning on unschooling. (they started school when they were 10 and 12)

Anyway.....

Originally Posted by baby-makes-3

This discussion is about a 2.5 year old. At that age, my child wasn't even weaned. She wasn't even totally potty-trained. That's still a baby .

She is a baby, and it's difficult to explain these philosophical ideas to one so young. Rather than trying to explain what your are NOT going to do, focus on what you will do, what "school" will look like for her. Homeschooling/unschooling groups tend to be very open about families with young children attending.

(Once, one of my DDs was asked where she would be going to school the next year, and she said the park! We'd been going to park days for a few months and she thought that seemed better than school. )

Check out and see what your city offers for homeschoolers. In many places, the zoo, science museum, etc. have special opportunities for homeschooled kids. "you'll take classes at the zoo!" might make sense to a 2 year old.

And yes, at some point, ALL kids should get to decide where they want to be educated. We could argue over the age for that decision, but no one could seriously think it's 2.

[Piglet68]

Originally Posted by flower01

I personally think argumentative comments should be removed. They are not helpful.

I will admit that I've been prone to judgemental-ness in the past, and probably still am to a certain extent, but it's something I've really worked hard on. What I find is that, if someone really has a concern about a parenting style or philosophy, it would be so much more helpful if they would just ASK "So does the issue of X come up? How do you handle Y?" rather than "Parents who do that end up with kids who are X and do Y!"

In other words, if you hear about a family where the kids get to decide what they eat, instead of being all "I think it's abusive to let kids eat popcorn and lollipops all day" why not ask "do you find your kids get a balanced diet? how do you handle refined sugars and fats, which we are not evolutionarily equipped to deal with in unlimited amounts? how is nutrition approached in your family?".

As I practice this myself, I find it's so much easier to have a discussion where everybody feels comfortable. It's also okay to say "that wouldn't work with my kids because of A, B and C". That's different from declaring someone's practice as abusive or "un-parenting". Often times we make snap conclusions based on something we've heard "They say they do X and Y, therefore their kids must be Z". Rather than stopping and saying to ourselves "Well, no reasonable parent wants their child to be Z, so I wonder how this works for them?" and then ask.

I have no problem with non-homeschoolers or -unschoolers coming here to learn and discuss, even to share perhaps why it didn't work for them. but I don't like being judged and I sure don't like it when that judgement is based on ignorant conclusions that don't even apply to our lifestyle.

[flower01]

Originally Posted by Piglet68

I have no problem with non-homeschoolers or -unschoolers coming here to learn and discuss, even to share perhaps why it didn't work for them. but I don't like being judged and I sure don't like it when that judgement is based on ignorant conclusions that don't even apply to our lifestyle.

Well said. I never mind a debate - it's the name-calling and judgements that really turn a good discussion into an energy-sucker.

Love the comment about the 2 1/2 year old still being a baby. I think so many rush their little ones and we forget that they are still babies.

[intentfulady]

UPDATE

after 3 trips to the PS playground, (which IS in reality Unsupervised,,,I SPIED FROM A DISTANCE) 

HS/US DD shared her feelings of heartbreak from BULLYING.

Needless to say, she will no longer be joining her "friends" on the ps playground as it has been discovered an "unsafe" place for her at this time.

This lack of "safety" was determined mutually after discussion.

She is in the process of discovering many of her choices lead her to places/people where she is not respected or "safe".

painful, but powerful.

[greenthumb3]

It was one comment from one person. She has her opinion and way of doing things, but she in no way represents the unschooling subforum and all the other people here.

I hope you will stay and continue commenting because the unschooling subforum needs your brand of honesty and forthrightness as well as your parenting ideals and day-to-day experiences.

There is a lot of room for all kinds of voices here!

Please stay.

I am enjoying this thread and seeing the perspectives shared in this thread.

[WindyCityMom]

Originally Posted by intentfulady 

UPDATE

after 3 trips to the PS playground, (which IS in reality Unsupervised,,,I SPIED FROM A DISTANCE) 

HS/US DD shared her feelings of heartbreak from BULLYING.

Needless to say, she will no longer be joining her "friends" on the ps playground as it has been discovered an "unsafe" place for her at this time.

This lack of "safety" was determined mutually after discussion.

She is in the process of discovering many of her choices lead her to places/people where she is not respected or "safe".

painful, but powerful.

 Aw I'm sorry mama. Hugs to you and your DD.

Well, I'm back :) I was poking around the US subforum and noticed my thread got bumped.  DD is now 3 and MIL buys her numerous things "for school", as in "HERE GRANDCHILD THIS IS FOR YOU FOR SCHOOL!!".  I'm incredibly irked (MIL is a whole 'nother post...) but my DD has decided that the backpack is for the beach.  My DD is very interested in school, but I think her interpretation of it is the "school" that her aunt and grandma go to- which is High School and a Community College.  Now that DD is 3, the questions are flooding in... "When will she start school?"  and "Where" and "Aren't you excited?!".  I am now wondering how to handle the "Aren't you excited" questions and comments, because they're implying that school is "Zomg the best thing since sliced bread!!" and although it very well might be just that, I would like to somehow lessen the prompting for excitement, if that makes any sense.  It's late.  If anyone can decipher that, please respond :)

[greenthumb3]

When ppl asked us about school when my first child was 3, I just said, we are planning to home school. Or I'd tell them about the fun co-op we did with other moms and kids at home.

Most ppl will not continue the conversation much further as they usually don't know what to say! It is usually one of those things where they are looking for common ground in conversation, so often I just return the question and ask them, and what about you? Aren't you excited for school? Is your child excited? It's the typical status quo rite of passage and everyone assumes everyone else does it. That's all.

Sometimes the parent just wants to gush on and on about how excited they are for "their own time" now that school is starting and their child is going off to school....I just smile and nod and remember come November that same parent will be complaining about how their child doesn't want to get out of bed in the morning and how homework takes so long at night yada yada yada.

When my kids talked about school, (my oldest was the only one to ask) I would ask what they thought would be exciting and fun. Then, I'd tell them what school is really like. He was surprised it wasn't like TV! There are rules and you can't talk to the person next to you, have to wait to get a drink, eat or go to the bathroom until the teacher tells you to, have to sit at a desk and not get up unless the teacher says you can, have homework to do at night, etc etc.

It changes. Now that my kids are the ages they are, they rarely care when ppl ask about school. In fact, my 5 yo says "I choose to homeschool and I get to play video games all day!" LOL

That reply of his grew out of an experience we had at a local park.

There were some school aged kids at the park who asked him what grade he is in. When he replied "18" (he loves numbers!) they started making fun of him. Until I walked up, friendly like, asked them what grades they were in and what they like about school ("lunch", "recess"). I asked them what video games they like to play and then commented that the video game was also a favorite of my son's (trying to help them find common ground). Then, I pointed out that we homeschool and he gets to play video games during the day and doesn't have homework. The conversation turned pretty quickly into "Wow, you are lucky!"

It is just normal to my kids now. Don't worry--you are just beginning establishing that family culture and in a few years, this most likely will be a non-issue.

You know, I wonder if you and your kids (and nosy extended family members :) would like this book. It was helpful to my kids and the pictures are cute, too.

"I Am Learning All the Time"

[WindyCityMom]

Thanks! And thanks for the link :) That all makes sense.  I just don't want my DD to be thinking "Excited?  I'm supposed to be excited.  Mom, why am I not in school?  I am so unexcited."  I have no doubt that she'll love being at home, but I don't want her to feel like she's missing out on the best thing ever right off the bat.

[mattemma04]

I have done all types of schooling.More so with my dd who did preschool.Even preschool can be a drag these days with the required busy work of tracing/writing letters when you don't want too. The thing about school is you have to do what the teacher tells you to do whether you want to or not. Not much fun if you want to play or paint.You eat only at snack time.And using the toilet outside of the usual times is discouraged.

K used to be about playing and singing(for me),but for my ds it was about learning to read,keeping your cloths pin in the green zone(be good),and get your busy work homework done.Sure there are the fun times of lunch(if you are allowed to talk that day) or recess if no one beats you up that day.

Even what I thought to be fun primary at Montessori still has parents pulling their crying kids out of the car.They are probably ok after a while,but seeing it daily at drop off makes me sad.

Pile up that school stuff MIL gets and just reassure your child that school will start where and when you feel it is best. You are hopefully moving soon and will be able to get through this with less MIL input. The pressure can be hard to put kids in something at 3-4 and then people get really antsy about putting a child in a formal K program at 5.  I caved at times to the pressure. I like the option of allowing a child to attend classes when they want too,but once you are in K level you have to follow the mandated school schedule,and face truancy issues if you miss too many days.

Kids won't really know what schooling out of the home is like unles they attend.It looks like all fun,games,and friendship on tv but it is often just an average daily grind of doing what you are told day after day. Ofcourse there are some exceptions,but my kids have yet to attend those types of places.Some kids love school no matter what-they just love it.

You will help your child find her way as the years go on. Don't stress to much right now. Just enjoy your time together and realize the lengths society go to in order to *excite* children about school is (for now) the norm.Just smile and keep doing things the way you want.I always reminded my kids that there are many different ways to school and child..some do public,some online,some private,and some homeschool.We did different things at different times and each is perfectly fine.

[lemonapple]

I think it all boils down to why do you want your child to remain at home? Be upfront about it...to your child and those who are hyping up school.

For our family, attending a formal school is out of the question. I know we may be extreme, but both dh and I see formal schools as something akin to prison. I do not think well of them, and I highly doubt that I ever will. If ds ever enters a education facility, it will be after MUCH talk, and I will HAVE to be made to believe (BY HIM) that he has a full understanding of schools, the way they work, their alternate purposes, and that he still wishes to attend. Obviously, that sort of conversation simply cannot happen for years.

However, since we are so completely against schools, we are VERY upfront about our opinions. There simply is no tolerance for someone hyping up school to ds. DS has already observed children during recess, walking in lines, ect... and we have pointed out these restrictions as we see them. When we run into stories that discuss school, we avoid them...or create alternate stories to go along with them...or occasionally read them while explaining the obvious infringements upon the student's liberties that even the happiest school book discloses! We often walk around our local schools on the weekend, and have pointed out the gates, locks, keep-out signs, etc... 

I wouldn't say we're extreme. We may be extreme to other adults, etc... but WITH ds, we only point out in simple language the lack of freedom that exists in school. As such, he (though very young...only just turned 2!) does NOT think of school as a fun place. Therefore, he does not wish to attend (at least for now!)

Obviously, these are our views. I'm sure they are not shared by everyone, and I do not mean to say that they should. But, if you opinion on schooling falls somewhere along the, "I hope my child never ever attends a formal school." line of thought, then BE UP FRONT. Stop it before it becomes a larger issue. I'd especially be concerned about close family members. That would be a big no-no to me, and I'd have warning bells ringing!

Oh, and I guess we do RU, but this is one of the issues where it's like walking in the middle of the road. I wouldn't let ds do it because he may die! I wouldn't send my child to school before he met the above qualifications because it's VERY similar IN MY OPINION. 

[A_Random_Phrase]

I hope this isn't OT, but I mostly allowed my children (older than your dd) decide if they wanted to go to ps - and - I allowed them to decide if they wanted to leave ps and return to hs'ing (I admit that I did my best to sway dd#1 to return home her last couple of years). This made me somewhat of an irritant, if not downright enemy to the schools my children sporadically attended. If I had to do it over again, I would have been more firm about them staying home.

My middle child told me that she counted up her total ps'ing time and they came up to ten months. She is unschooling now - totally responsible for her own learning and her latest "craze" is learning Japanese.

It's rough when a grandparent or other kids say something. When dd#2's friends used to try to convince me to let her go to ps, I would tell them, "No. I like myself too much." (long story - she hasn't been in ps since 6th grade and it wasn't anywhere near a full year). It is possible that you can fend off the pre-k stuff and perhaps be in a more conducive environment for home/unschooling by the time she's five.

[A_Random_Phrase]

Originally Posted by KittyDanger 
To me, the AP thing to do here would be: When your child reaches school age, if he or she still wants to try school you allow it. Then, if your child decides it is not right for him or her you explore other options.

Ha! I did this with dd#2 in kindergarten and she lasted one day. Apparently, she thought she was only going to go for that long. When I took her the next school day, she wouldn't get out of the vehicle. Another mom told me that she had to go to school some day, so I should just force her to do it "now". I said nothing, but inside I vehemently denied that lie (and I knew the mother was simply repeating what she had been taught to believe).

Like I said in my previous post, I would do things differently now. I'd still let them try out ps, but I would make them wait until they were about ten years old.