Update #17 - Denied to foster due to bio kids not being vaxed - Arkansas

[larkish]

DH and I went to speak with a private agency about fostering and they said we can't foster or adopt cause our kids aren't vaxed. They said there is only one case recently where the state allowed an exemption. The parents had one son who got sick while being vaxed and the Dr said he had to stop, but they plan to continue once he's well enough.

The lady at the agency said that they are not willing to do the work or risk their license by trying to support anyone seeking an exemption at this time.

DH and I have been praying, talking and thinking about this for a long time... really since before kids, but especially recently in the last few months. We have many friends here fostering and adopting through the state and we were thinking we'd fost-to-adopt. We talked to friends fostering, our family and decided to move forward within the last few weeks and I was thinking we'd be placed with a child in the spring.

I couldn't believe that they would actually just shut the door like that! I figured we'd have some hoops to jump through, but didn't expect this.

I just feel so sad now and unsure of what to do next... I feel like they just crushed my dream

[Polliwog]

Have you tried calling your local social services office and see what their foster care people say?

[larkish]

Not exactly, but it doesn't seem hopeful...

DH stopped into DHS and they said the people to talk to were not in and sent us to their website. I located the handbook for fostering online and it says the children in the home must have up to date vaxs.
The woman at the agency indicated that to get the exemption you have to state your case in front of the board. And stressed that this other family was "planning to finish the vaxs." We haven't done any and haven't planned to do any in the future at this time....

This just reminded me that we had a similar issue when DH was going to attend a state university here and they said he HAD to have his vaccine records or they wouldn't admit him, no matter what! Thankfully he was able to take the test to show his titers.

[MissinNYC]

I think that's true in my state, too, but I THINK they accept a regular school type waiver, or a doctor's note that the vaxes are inadvisable at this time.

OTOH, many kids in foster care have been exposed to places with funky germs (shelters, hospitals, sub-par daycares, abandoned houses, etc) and may pose more of a threat to your unvaxed kids. And your kids may pose a threat to kids with weakened immune systems.

In fostering, it's been my experience that you have to be really flexible and willing to change a lot and fit into a system which is really messed up. I hope you can find a good solution!

[Drummer's Wife]

I was wondering about just this last night, as one of the agencies I was looking into stated immunizations were required for all children in the home before being allowed to foster or adopt. I'm not sure if the state program is similar, but the reason I am interested in the other agency (which is non-profit, if that matters), is that it's the only way to go about being certified for treatment foster care, which is something I have been considering.

I was definitely wondering if they would accept the exemptions my children already have approved through the dept of health here.

[marsupial-mom]

I get the feeling that each agency deals with that kind of thing in it's own way. Definately sho around. Most of those rules are just guidelines, not laws.

And straight up adoptions from foster care are probably a little more likely to be lax about rules like that.

I don't have bio kids but the same requirement applies to pets: they must be vaxed. Our cats weren't up to date since they never go outdoors or have contact with other cats. So we got them all up to date. But it turns out that the only document they needed was a vet note saying they were in good health and proof of rabies vax, no other vaccines.
So... I would get clarification of what actual documents are needed, not just what the case workers say. They might need a shot record or they might just need a doctors note.

[Sierra]

When we got licensed in our new state, this came up. They took our religious exemption. My kids are "up to date" to the extent of our religious allowances.

[heatherdeg]

I don't know what to say. Religious exemption exists in Arkansas but that is to protect you from less optional scenarios like school and welfare for people who can't afford to homeschool, etc. Fostering and adoption and college are not like that.

In NJ, they don't deny you being a foster or adoptive family over your vax status, BUT, if and when they place a child with you for adoption--you have your 6-month live-in wait where the child is with you pending an adoption but you do not yet have parental rights. The state does. As a result, that child will be vaxed and if not, can be removed from your care. In NJ, we had a legal battle going on where the state was involved in the removal of a child and the child was being adopted by relatives. Both the birth family and adoptive family had the same religious beliefs and both agreed that vaxing would be against those beliefs. But because the state legally had custody, they got the final say about it. I'm not exactly sure where it ended up, but the fact that it went on at all in a state that allows for religious exemption for foster and adoptive parents is saying something.

Of course, it is never allowed that we decline vaxes for foster kids. The issue really arises with adoptive scenarios. So if you were planning to adopt from the state, that could be the potential issue: that the child is placed with you with the state having parental rights, you declining the vaxes and the adoption being disrupted--which is something they'd never want to happen... and to that end, they may not want to bother with the expense of licensing you.

FWIW, I've had kids come out of some really nasty environments health-wise and it's never affected my non-vaxed (and immune deficient) son.


ETA:

Originally Posted by marsupial-mom

And straight up adoptions from foster care are probably a little more likely to be lax about rules like that.

Nope. My daughter was a SafeHaven baby--so we got matched at 7 days and she was in my home at 12 days old. I had to have 2 doctors certify that it was medically inadvisable and unsafe for her to have vaccinations and even then it did NOT go over well. They stated lack of parental health history combined with lack of personal health history (she hadn't been ill at all yet for them to see how she handled illness, etc.) and neurological complications (she had some issues). So it wasn't just one thing. They didn't care. She was under 6mo and I had to provide documentation about her not getting a FLU SHOT (it had been mandated in NJ the year before for children in licensed daycare/school settings) even though she wasn't in daycare and the shot can't be given to kids under 6mo.

We'd been foster parents for 3 years before her placement with letters of recommendation written on our behalf by different supervisors in different counties about how well we managed medical care for some of the kids and advocated for them. As I understand it, that had some role in the placing of our daughter. But it absolutely bought us NO slack for anything; and we still had to fight for them to acknowledge two board-licensed medical doctors--one of whom taught at TWO medical schools. >

[Drummer's Wife]

See, I could understand completely requiring foster kids and even adopted kids to be fully vaccinated - but the issue is that our bio kids would have to be up-to-date before being licensed. I'm not sure if NM is similar to where Sierra lives, and that our religious exemptions would hold up - but it sounds like the OP is saying in Arkansas that is not likely possible.

[mran]

We submitted the School/Child Care Personal/Religious Exemption form for our bio children for our initial home study, and for our 2nd, renewal homestudy, added the same type of exemption form for the child we adopted from foster care. Nobody batted an eye. We do vax our foster children up to date, where medically appropriate...

We're in AZ.

[larkish]

my understanding is that most states "require" the existing children in the home to be vaxed, but that they are also open to exemptions. Does anyone on here know if in their state where they allow exemptions if they say so in the official fostering documentation?

I also am under the assumption that the foster children in my care would HAVE to be vaccinated.

(FWIW, we recently moved back here from MI and the laws here in AR on homebirth and homeschooling are much stricter as well. AR seems to be behind the times like 10-20 years)

I know for sure this agency WILL NOT accept any exemption because they believe (and feel experienced in this belief) that the state will not allow any "easy" exemption.
They said that we can do 72hr respite care or after our children are 6 years old we could do foster care (so they do seem pretty knowledgeable on this information). They also said that the requirements for adoption are even more thorough so that is not possible either.

I contacted another agency online to see what they say. And I'll see about contacting DHS, though I hear they're very hard to get ahold of, to see what they say. But DH has peace that maybe it's just not meant to be....

[Sierra]

Just to make sure I was clear, I was not saying that we did not vaccinate our foster kidos. They got their vaccinations.

What I was saying was that in my current state, we came up against the issues of our legal children not being fully vaccinated when we went to get licensed. The state I am in requires all children in the home to be vaccinated, however, in my state with the agency that did our homestudy, the lack of vaccines for our legal children was noted and then our religious exemption was accepted.

I was speaking from personal experience in my own state and am sure folks could have very different experiences elsewhere. Just wanted to post my experience because early on in the conversation we got discouraged, but in our case there was reason to persevere.

[Sierra]

P.S. After I got licensed I realized that by asking right away about the vaccination requirements, it sent up alarm bells for the agency. Had I just submitted the exemption with our paperwork, after the agency had already invested in us, I think it wouldn't have caused nearly the pause that it did.

[larkish]

(thanks everyone for your support and information. hoping I'm not sounding snippy, I just like to get straight to the point

We didn't raise the issue, the CW asked us directly during the interview.

We have some friends who went through all the paperwork at this agency recently and told us that to get the vaccine exemption we just have to go through the board to get approved. Then we've noticed they haven't been placed with a kid and just thought it was that there wasn't a child in need. Then at this meeting found out that it's due to this family having a "special" situation (aka the families children not fully-vaxed). Still haven't spoken with these people, but our understanding is that they went through the whole process with the assumption they could get an exemption. Then on Aug 24th, there was the case that went in front of the board (in #1). The Agency said they were waiting to find out the results of that. After hearing that the child #1 - got sick from vaccines and got a Dr's exemption and #2 - the family is "planning" to resume when the child is well enough, the agency has changed their policy. They are no longer going to go through the whole process with you only to find that you then can't foster full-time, if that makes sense. I think cause it's so recent and they already are having issues with this, they are asking upfront.

Hope that clarifies it all...

[larkish]

I guess I was thinking that we could just adopt through another state that would be more friendly to the exemption... but I just saw online that then you have to abide by the laws of both states. Hmmmm, I'm going to have to investigate this further since DH and I are still on the adoption path. There's no way the state can totally stop us from adopting I'm thinking....

[Lisa1970]

That is so odd. What state are you in? The state I am in (Texas) There are several private agencies handling foster care so if one says no, you can just go to another.

[Smithie]

I'm glad you and your DH found peace on the issue, larkish.

My biokids were already partially vaxed and I decided to get them fully vaxed rather than raise the issue with social services. I was tired of lying to get the religious exemptions renewed anyhow. But I can totally imagine that decision going the other way if any of our biokds had had seriously negative vax reactions at any point or we had a family history of ASD.