trouble, trouble, and more TROUBLE!

[BritneyB]

My daughter, Jamie, just causes trouble all the time. It seems like it's either fun for her, or she's just a trouble magnet. School has been back in session for a little over a week, and already Jamie is on suspension, for punching some kid in the face. She claims it was because he tried to untie the lacing of her corset while she was standing in the middle of the school lounge during lunch. Last year there was a total of 7 suspensions, the year before that she was expelled from her school for possesion of weapons.
And if that wasn't enough, she's also in a band, which is fine in and of itself, but she comes home at all hours after shows and practice. Also, with being in a band, she is often surrounded by men who admire her (kind of like groupies) and never has consistent boyfriends, just, for lack of a better term, "boy toys". As a result of all of this attention, she dresses almost like a stripper every day - corsets, leather, short skirts, thigh high boots, heels etc - even at school.
Now, the latest, and probably most dangerous, thing - Body suspensions. Well Jamie decided to sneak out of the house at 5 in the morning and go out of town with a friend of hers. He knows a guy who does body suspensions, and Jamie volunteered her body to model at an exhibition. Body suspension involves inserting hooks into the skin and a person hangs by their flesh. Jamie came home wearing a tank top and had strange puncture wounds across her back. If I hadn't seen those she probably wouldn't have told me about it. There is something so disturbing about seeing some on, especially your child, hanging from hooks in their flesh.

What do I do about this? I work, and I'm a single parent. I cant deal with this nonsense!!

[nextcommercial]

I have no idea.

You are in way over my head. When you said "band" I thought you meant marching band. So, I'm of no you use to you.

But, I wanted to pat you on the back for being so calm and level headed. It sounds like you are pretty realistic. All the trouble and suspensions at school are her own bad choices, and you aren't trying to blame everybody else for them.

I hope you get some good advice here.

[mom2ponygirl]

I'm so sorry things are so tough! How old is she? Perhaps knowing how old she is will help me brainstorm a bit.

[BritneyB]

Jamie is 16 years old

[LynnS6]

Has she ever had an evaluation by a psychologist? Does she have learning issue?

I don't think 16 year olds punch people just to be bad -- there had to be something else going on. At very least, something in school is really not working for her.

If she's punching somebody at 16, it sounds like she's got impulse control problems. Does she have symptoms of ADHD? Any chance she's self-medicating for something?

How long has she been sexually active? Dressing like this? If it's been a few years, is there any chance she was ever sexually abused? I don't think that a 16 year old dressing provocatively is necessarily a sign of abuse, but for a young teen, I'd worry.

It sounds to me on the surface that she's really seeking attention (especially from men) and that school is not a good place for her. What other schooling options does she have?

As someone else said, this sounds like more 'trouble' than can be easily solved over the internet. It's way out of my league.

[BritneyB]

Jamie was evaluated by a psychologist when she was 14, and he found nothing wrong with her mentally, she has never shown symptoms of learning disorders, ADHD or anything else. She is extremely aggressive and does have limited martial arts training (courtesy of one of her band members). Like I said, she claims that the boy attempted to untie her corset lacing, and if that is true I don't blame her. She does drink, mostly when she does shows with her band, but I do not think she is self medicating.

The clothing style has been evolving for 3 years really, adding more leather and vinyl, chains etc. As for how long she has been sexually active, a year (that I know of). She hasn't been sexually abused, or abused at all, in any form.

We don't have a lot of schooling options, just public or private schools. I don't want to send her to a private school because they are all faith based (Catholic etc.) and, being an athiest, I wouldn't be able to send Jamie to one of these schools. Unless I wanted to send her out of town to a military school, which I don't think I could afford to do, those are my only options.

Ah, well I was hoping there was at least one person who had been through this before, because no one I know has experienced anything similar.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by BritneyB

She does drink, mostly when she does shows with her band, but I do not think she is self medicating.

Take this with a grain of salt because I don't have a 16 year old...... but you need to be her mom. Not her friend. She needs rules, and fast. Clothing needs to be appropriate for school. "Band" needs to be stopped, especially since she's drinking (!!!) while doing it. She goes to school, she comes home. That's it. No friends house, no dates, nothing until she can prove she is mature enough to handle it.

When my parents found out that I was drinking (they found out when I was 17) I was grounded until my 18th birthday. I went to school (with a parent driving me). I came home (with a parent driving me... I didn't have my license at that time). I went to work (again, parent drove me to and from). That's it. No friends houses. Nothing. I can't say it really worked other than giving me a lot of time to think. LOL!

[Pariah]

I have experience with this, except as the daughter, not the mom. I started dressing like that at a younger age, and I still do at 26 except at this point I've learned that corsets and thigh high boots aren't necessary for the grocery store, just the clubs and gigs. But at 16, these clothes are new and fun and I can totally relate to your daughter wearing them everywhere. What girl, at almost any age, wouldn't want to feel pretty and sexy? I don't think that's unusual at all. Getting older and more mature will make her understand when crazy clothes are appropriate and when it is in her best interest not to wear them due to the attention they can bring (like the pulling of the corset strings at school).

I also had a hard time at school, though I didn't get in trouble too much, but I was picked on terribly and ended up finishing school through an accredited correspondence course. I graduated and started college early, which I loved. I felt much more at home and had an easier time making friends through college art and photography classes with older peers. Could that be an option for your daughter? PM me if you want the name of the course I used; I really liked it and ended up using it when I taught my homeschooled sister.

I don't agree that she should quit her band. Making music and DJing brings me an immense amount of joy that nothing else can. I still do both even as a mom, and again, with age and maturity, I've toned down some aspects of it to reflect how my life has changed, but I certainly won't elimiate music from my life entirely. It has always been like that, and taking it away would be devastating. My ex-husband tried to do that to me in order to keep me on a short leash, and it is one of the reasons we're divorced now. I agree that drinking at her gigs can get her into bad situations, so I'm not sure how you'd want to find a balance with these activities...hm.

I have been into music, clubs, etc for many, many years. Drinking never got me into any trouble, but that is probably rare. I also started my body modification at 16, which in my opinion is not a problem if done by an experienced professional. I would actually like to do suspension but haven't had it become a possibility for me until recently. I can see how it can be disturbing to some people, but I highly suggest checking out suspension.org for more information about it. It is not at all the same as self injury or self mutilation. Different people do it for different reasons. Have you asked her about it and why she did it? For myself personally, I got into body modification after having a very sickly childhood spent making myself physically ill in fear of pain, blood draws, needles, etc. I felt that I needed to face those fears, and I started with a simple piercing as a teen. I've since had a number of piercings and tattoos. Having a homebirth was part of this process, too...facing the fear of pain and learning to trust my body. I decided that if I were able to handle a homebirth and manage the pain myself, that I would do a suspension. To me, that is the next and probably final step in knowing that I have overcome my fears and that I will not let fears "win."

Feel free to PM me if you want to talk.

[EFmom]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen

Take this with a grain of salt because I don't have a 16 year old...... but you need to be her mom. Not her friend. She needs rules, and fast. Clothing needs to be appropriate for school. "Band" needs to be stopped, especially since she's drinking (!!!) while doing it. She goes to school, she comes home. That's it. No friends house, no dates, nothing until she can prove she is mature enough to handle it.

When my parents found out that I was drinking (they found out when I was 17) I was grounded until my 18th birthday. I went to school (with a parent driving me). I came home (with a parent driving me... I didn't have my license at that time). I went to work (again, parent drove me to and from). That's it. No friends houses. Nothing. I can't say it really worked other than giving me a lot of time to think. LOL!

I agree mostly with this. She needs a mother, not a friend.

I would allow the band stuff to continue, but only if she goes directly to practice and returns directly afterward. I would be there for performances. The first drink or the first time she's 10 minutes late, and band would stop, period.

Honestly though, it sounds like she's been allowed to do whatever she wants for a long time, so I don't know how effective you can be at this point, but I'd give it a very serious try.

The sexually suggestive clothing at school is inappropriate and I would put a stop to that immediately. School is a place for studying, not partying.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by EFmom

I would allow the band stuff to continue, but only if she goes directly to practice and returns directly afterward.

See, I would take a different approach though. She's already proved she's not responsible enough to do the band thing (since she's drinking while there). I would take it away and make her EARN it. Once she's proved that she's more responsible and she can do the band thing without drinking, then I would allow her to do it.

[EFmom]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen

See, I would take a different approach though. She's already proved she's not responsible enough to do the band thing (since she's drinking while there). I would take it away and make her EARN it. Once she's proved that she's more responsible and she can do the band thing without drinking, then I would allow her to do it.

I guess that would depend for me what expectations were already in place. If she knew that it was a violation of existing rules that she hang out and do other stuff, then I'd agree with you. But from the OP, it's not clear to me that clearly defined expectations existed in the past.

[laohaire]

I recommend the book Hold Onto Your Kids.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen

See, I would take a different approach though. She's already proved she's not responsible enough to do the band thing (since she's drinking while there). I would take it away and make her EARN it. Once she's proved that she's more responsible and she can do the band thing without drinking, then I would allow her to do it.

The problem with this approach, however, is that there will likely not be something to go back to. The band is unlikely to "hold" her spot for her. Whatever she does with them, there will be a hole when she's pulled - and the rest of the band members will look to fill it. I would be loathe to pull that outlet out from under her. I DO think that supervising her involvement is something to consider, making it clear that drinking (or doing drugs) will result in her loss of the band.

I'm not huge on the whole modification thing, but if this were MY 16yo daughter (and yes, I do have one), I would try to get her to explain to me what it's all about for her, why she's doing it, etc. And not just platitudes like "I like it" or "IT's fun!"... but really - what does she get out of it emotionally, spiritually, physically.

Yes, she needs a parent... but... sometimes one needs to be a friend along the way. A *parent* is more likely to tell her why everything she's doing is wrong... a *friend* is more likely to listen and understand why she may be doing these things and then offer input. You may have more credibility if you take the time to be a friend first. It's how I parent my 16yo (and my 18yo), and so far? Pretty smooth sailing with both.

[BritneyB]

I probably should have made it more clear that, in the family that I come from, drinking is more accepted at a young age. I was 14 when I was given wine or beer at home. My thinking is that as long as it's only a little bit of alcohol, and as long as she isn't falling down drunk, drinking is ok. Just the way I was raised, I respect everyone's right to disagree.

I've always been a fan of letting kids explore, and Jamie was always very mature for her age, so she did always have less severe rules and expectations. I should have guessed that would backfire some day. On school days, in theory, she is to be home by 10 pm, weekends, if she isn't going to make it home by 12 then she can stay with a friend or has to be really quiet when coming in the house. I've tried to raise her the way I was raised, but I guess it doesn't work the same way in this time period, or with Jamie's personality.

I did talk to her about the suspension, and she said that "it's fun", and by doing this she hopes that some of the men in other bands will take her more seriously, rather than viewing her as a joke. I guess Jamie thinks it's a mark of endurance that will gain her respect?

[proudmomof4]

Originally Posted by BritneyB

I probably should have made it more clear that, in the family that I come from, drinking is more accepted at a young age. I was 14 when I was given wine or beer at home. My thinking is that as long as it's only a little bit of alcohol, and as long as she isn't falling down drunk, drinking is ok. Just the way I was raised, I respect everyone's right to disagree.

I've always been a fan of letting kids explore, and Jamie was always very mature for her age, so she did always have less severe rules and expectations. I should have guessed that would backfire some day. On school days, in theory, she is to be home by 10 pm, weekends, if she isn't going to make it home by 12 then she can stay with a friend or has to be really quiet when coming in the house. I've tried to raise her the way I was raised, but I guess it doesn't work the same way in this time period, or with Jamie's personality.

I did talk to her about the suspension, and she said that "it's fun", and by doing this she hopes that some of the men in other bands will take her more seriously, rather than viewing her as a joke. I guess Jamie thinks it's a mark of endurance that will gain her respect?

I think that part troubles me the most. I do have a 17y old daughter but I'm probably way too "normal" (for lack of a better term) to have much experience with self-modification - apart from earrings, that is.
Anyway, I don't like Jamie's reasoning for trying suspension. Doing this to yourself just to "be taken seriously" makes me very uneasy.

[CarrieMF]

The drinking, as long as she wasn't driving, getting stupid drunk wouldnt' bother me. the OP is in Canada & depending which province she's in her dd is legal to drink in 2 or 3 years, less if she's turning 17 soon.

The dressing - outside of school it's her choice, but if she's wearing short skirts to school she may have issues there. Could you take her shopping for more acceptable attire for school that still fall within her style?

The band - her curfew is 10 on school nights & 12 on weekends, is she coming home then or later? Does she call & say she'll be later?

Suspension - I'd talk to her about safety & making sure they're using proper equipment to do it so she doesn't get hurt or infections.

What are her consequences to not getting home when she's supposed to? or sneaking out? or being suspended?

[BritneyB]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

The drinking, as long as she wasn't driving, getting stupid drunk wouldnt' bother me. the OP is in Canada & depending which province she's in her dd is legal to drink in 2 or 3 years, less if she's turning 17 soon.

The dressing - outside of school it's her choice, but if she's wearing short skirts to school she may have issues there. Could you take her shopping for more acceptable attire for school that still fall within her style?

The band - her curfew is 10 on school nights & 12 on weekends, is she coming home then or later? Does she call & say she'll be later?

Suspension - I'd talk to her about safety & making sure they're using proper equipment to do it so she doesn't get hurt or infections.

What are her consequences to not getting home when she's supposed to? or sneaking out? or being suspended?

I think the school administration has actually given up on enforcing the dress code on Jamie. At this point its just lucky that she bothers to show up at all, so they stopped caring what she looks like. If you think the clothing is wild, you should see the make up that goes with it. No wonder she take 2 hours to get ready every day. Jamie gets part time jobs every once in a while and earns money with her band, so she buys her own clothes (a method of bypassing my rules).

The weekend rules, yes she follows those. Weekdays... not so much. There have been times when she comes home on a Tuesday night at 1 or 2 am, even tried sneaking boys in the house! She never calls, and blames it on poor cell reception in the area (may or may not be true).

She knows more about suspension safety than I do, and understands the risks, she just doesn't care.

You know, I don't have a lot of punishment options. Since she bought her own laptop, I can't really take computer privilages away. I don't want to take away the band unless it's really required. The only thing I can take away really it her cell, and that's almost more of a punishment for me. I also suspend performance privilages, like she can't book shows for her band for a month or 6 weeks etc. There was one period of 6 weeks where she couldn't leave the house unless I was with her, and that annoyed me more than it did her.

[Violet2]

You have your hands full and your DD sounds like a very strong person who is going to always be on the razor's edge of disaster until she matures a bit.

I don't have much to offer but 2 things stood out to me...

1. I think you absolutely can take away her computer. I don't care if she paid for it or not.

2.I would focus on school. Can she homeschool via a virtual academy? Can she test out like the US GED? Maybe she needs to do something differently. Since finishing early would free her up for more gigs, she might be really motivated to do it.

And I would maybe seek the advice of a child psychologist. Don't necessarily send your DD, but for you to go. I am not sure your sense of boundaries and consequences is helping, I think it could be enabling her behavior and you need to evaluate that and what you are willing to change/not change.

FWIW I know a mom who did the band thing at your DD's age and was pretty rebellious. She is an amazingly talented artist--writes songs, draws, is a published author (with an agent and NY contract and everything). Some people just march to the beat of their own drum and there's not much you can do.

Good luck.

V

[mtiger]

Just to clarify - I have nothing against drinking. I enjoy a glass of wine or two in the evening, and have no issue with either of my kids having a drink. My oldest doesn't drink, my youngest likes a cold beer now and again, but mostly at home. Most of her friends drink, and as she puts it "One of us has to be responsible, Mom - so I don't drink to make sure they stay safe." Not going to argue about that.

[EFmom]

Sure you can enforce rules about what is and isn't allowed in your house, including computer time and clothing, regardless of who paid for it. Your house, your rules.

And yes, sometimes punishment for kids is an inconvenience for parents. But nobody ever said kids were convenient.