A very uncomfortable question...

[fishmom]

I don't know if I'm over reacting or if I need to listen to my instincts. I don't want to ask any of my IRL friends or DH, b/c I'm afraid of tainting their image of my dad if I'm totally wrong about this. I love my dad and he is a great guy and loves his grandkids, but it totally weirds me out that he massages my just-turned-10yo daughter's feet. Ok, there I said it.

He never abused me or anyone that I know of, but he does this to her even if she tells him to stop. She doesn't like him to take her socks off, but he does anyway and says it's better that way. God, as I'm typing this he sounds like a perve to me. Is this a foot fetish? Should I confront him or talk to my mom about it. Do I even let her be alone with them at their house? Am I being ridiculous in even giving this any thought? Please give me some balanced perspective here. Thanks so much.

[mamazee]

, but he does this to her even if she tells him to stop. She doesn't like him to take her socks off, but he does anyway and says it's better that way.

No you aren't overreacting, and that's the reason right there. I would stop it by whatever means necessary. And no, I wouldnt' leave them alone together. It does sound like he is grooming her to me.

[hildare]

i would simply tell him that you are trying to teach your daughter that other people have to respect her body, her wishes, and her words. when she says to stop, that means everyone is expected to stop whatever it is she's referring to, whether it be tickling, massage, headrubbing, whatever. explain further that this keeps children safe- letting them know that they have the right to say no touching.

[Norasmomma]

If she says no and he's doing it anyway, I totally would be confronting the situation and not leaving them alone. He's violating her wishes and not listening to her, that is a big red flag to me.

Do what you need to do mama. Trust your instincts.

[limabean]

What do you do when he ignores her requests to stop? I would say, "Dad, she said no. Leave her alone" and invite her to come sit with me if she wants to.

Yes, it does sound creepy to me.

[LaLaLaLa]

Simply the fact that it's your DD's body and she has asked him not to touch it in a certain way and he continues to do so means that you need to step in and stop him.

I'd think, if he really is a great guy who loves you and your DD, then a stern "DD doesn't like her feet touched. Please STOP." should work. And teach your DD to say strongly and loudly "I don't like having my feet touched!"

Your dad might just not understand that anyone could possibly not like a foot massage. He does need to listen to and respect boundaries, though.

[Catubodua]

Originally Posted by hildare

i would simply tell him that you are trying to teach your daughter that other people have to respect her body, her wishes, and her words. when she says to stop, that means everyone is expected to stop whatever it is she's referring to, whether it be tickling, massage, headrubbing, whatever. explain further that this keeps children safe- letting them know that they have the right to say no touching.

think of it this way - the person getting touched gets to decide who can do the touching and how the touching happens. it's never ok to ignore a child's wish to stop being touched. the only exceptions are in an emergency (like pulling them out of the way of traffic).

if he makes a big deal about it, you make a big deal right back. your daughter needs to know you are there to defend her. you don't want to teach her to give in to things that make her uncomfortable just b/c she may care for the person doing them.

[Adaline'sMama]

I would not leave them a lone together. I think you should tell him that when she says no, she means no and ask him to help you teach her that her body should be respected. Have you thought about asking your DD any questions to find out if anything has happened? There have been several members of my family that were abused by one man (not saying your dad is like this at all), and it took three generations for it to come out. That being said, while what you typed might sound kinda pervish, I know Ive had family memebers that sounded way weirder than things actually were. If you think everything is ok, I would still ask your DD, and have a conversation with her about others respecting her body and make sure that she knows that no matter what she can tell you if anything ever makes her uncomfortable. I know my sister didnt tell for years because she was afraid that my mother would be mad at her or not believe her, because it was my mothers father.

[Linda on the move]

I agree with the others. Time to put a stop to it.

Whether or not it is perverted, it's setting her up. It's teaching her that if someone touches her in ways she doesn't like, she is powerless to stop them.

Draw some boundaries. You are teaching her how to handle situations with men, with boys she dates, her future boss, etc.

Talk to him, and if he doesn't listen, then he doesn't get to be around her when you aren't there.

[rhiOrion]

I think you should tell him to stop just because no means no. But I absolutely don't think it means anything sinister (not that it's not possible, but I don't think it MEANS it). My dad loved to tickle my sister and me. He never understood that no meant no. But he NEVER EVER EVER touched us in any inappropriate ways. He just didn't get that even though we were laughing we HATED it.

Probably your dad just doesn't get that anyone would dislike a foot massage. But he should be told that it's not cool.

[fishmom]

Ok, thanks for the quick feedback. I come from a family with very poor communication skills so this will be hard. I know I have to talk about this with them. I'm also uncomfortable with physical affection (DH's family is totally opposite of mine).

I have talked to dd about it and we talk freely about inappropriate touching and behaviors, etc. She even said this morning that "he isn't doing anything inappropriate, is he? I just don't like having to put my socks back on."

Kids are so innocent and I'd hate to have to further explain this to her, planting yucky thoughts or fears. I did tell her that if she tells anyone to stop touching her in any way then they need to listen.

My dad is a totally oblivious kind of guy and hard of hearing. Very absent minded; and I mean very. I can see this being innocent, but I just can't leave it at that...there's too much at stake. I was abused by a friend of my older brother in our own home and could never talk about it until I was an adult. As a result I am pretty overprotective, dd almost never is without me or DH.

Come to think of it, this is probably why I had/have issues with affection. I remember that once I hit puberty I wouldn't sit on my dad's lap anymore, etc. Then around 13, 14yo I turned to boys for that affection...but I guess that's another story...ugh...I just don't want my dd to be messed up like I was/am.

[Adaline'sMama]

Originally Posted by fishmom

I was abused by a friend of my older brother in our own home and could never talk about it until I was an adult. As a result I am pretty overprotective, dd almost never is without me or DH.

Come to think of it, this is probably why I had/have issues with affection. I remember that once I hit puberty I wouldn't sit on my dad's lap anymore, etc. Then around 13, 14yo I turned to boys for that affection...but I guess that's another story...ugh...I just don't want my dd to be messed up like I was/am.

As someone who was also a victim of abuse, I just want to say that I am proud of you for this bolded statement. That is a hard thing to admint, and its great that you are looking out for her.

[Catubodua]

Originally Posted by fishmom

I did tell her that if she tells anyone to stop touching her in any way then they need to listen.

it's great to tell her that, but it's even better to show her how to handle it. right now, she's saying no but it's not making your dad actually stop.

so, practice with her. pretend to be your dad and go over what she should do. "next time he does this you should xyz" - get up and move away from him; refuse to have your socks off - as in, pull them back up/on; kick his hands - and yes, have her kick his hands and say "stop that, i don't want you to do it"

give her permission to be stern / harsh in her "no".

don't treat it as "he's bad", may-be treat it as grandpa is being annoying and needs to get hit over the head with a brick to get the point.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Catubodua

don't treat it as "he's bad", may-be treat it as grandpa is being annoying and needs to get hit over the head with a brick to get the point.

YES! And its totally OK for you to answer for her. Or to help her if he won't listen to HER saying no.

ei, Grandpa starts annoying behavior, dd say's, "stop" and he doesn't. Thats when you respond with, "Hey dad, she said no and meant it. DD comes sit by me."

It doesn't paint the behavior as grooming in anyway, it doesn't paint grandpa as a bad person, it just shows that he needs to listen to what people say. I bet you do that a few times and he stops.

[texmati]

Originally Posted by rhiOrion

I think you should tell him to stop just because no means no. But I absolutely don't think it means anything sinister (not that it's not possible, but I don't think it MEANS it). My dad loved to tickle my sister and me. He never understood that no meant no. But he NEVER EVER EVER touched us in any inappropriate ways. He just didn't get that even though we were laughing we HATED it.

Probably your dad just doesn't get that anyone would dislike a foot massage. But he should be told that it's not cool.

this. i doubt anything is wrong. My dad used to pull on our toes. it sound weird now, but it was a game. sometimes we loved it sometimes we hated it. I would just emphasise to your dad that no means no, and put a stop to it each and everytime you see it happen. give your dd the words/power to tell him, nope, I"m not taking my socks off.

[JudiAU]

If other people are around, I don't think anything is wrong with it. My grandfather used to give everyone awesome food massages.

[meemee]

does she have any foot issues? high arch or flat feet? is she into a lot of physical sports that tire her legs out?

i do think instead of you talking have your dd tell him to draw the lines. if he wont listen to her then you step in. but have her talk to him in a way he understands.

when i first read your post the first thing that came to mind was a 'simpleton' who was trying to help. not pervert. a 'simpleton' who doesnt understand no.

[crunchy_mommy]

Oh my gosh I just got goosebumps because I'm facing a very similar dilemma. I don't feel comfortable allowing DS to be alone with my dad -- and it breaks my heart to have to admit that (and would break my dad's heart too if I told him that straight out). It's been weighing heavy on my mind since we saw them last weekend... tormenting me really.

Someone recommended that I read Protecting the Gift & I'm in the middle of it now. I think it would help you too if you haven't read it. We need to trust our instincts, they are there for a reason.

I think a foot massage is a gray area (I'd be uncomfortable with it but to others it might be no big deal) but the fact that he won't stop when your DD says no is a HUGE red flag to me, and no, I would not leave them alone together and I would not allow him to continue the foot massages if your DD doesn't like them. I don't know if this is more like tickling (where kids sometimes scream 'stop' but often are loving it) or if your DD is truly uncomfortable but if it's the latter you need to help her clearly communicate the "no" and make sure your father respects it.

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by Catubodua

it's great to tell her that, but it's even better to show her how to handle it. right now, she's saying no but it's not making your dad actually stop.

so, practice with her. pretend to be your dad and go over what she should do. "next time he does this you should xyz" - get up and move away from him; refuse to have your socks off - as in, pull them back up/on; kick his hands - and yes, have her kick his hands and say "stop that, i don't want you to do it"

give her permission to be stern / harsh in her "no".

Also wanted to second the above!

[fishmom]

Originally Posted by meemee

when i first read your post the first thing that came to mind was a 'simpleton' who was trying to help. not pervert. a 'simpleton' who doesnt understand no.

OMG, that's my dad in a nutshell.