dh puched a hole in the wall last night - Page 2

[Wild Lupine]

Originally Posted by AbbieB

I don't think it's fair to make someone promise that they will never get mad and loose it. Humans get mad and act out when under a lot of stress and dealing with lack of sleep. It sounds like in the OP's husband's family, this kind of thing is what they do.

I've had less then proud parenting moments where this kind of language came out of me. I vent/process verbally so sometimes I cuss like a sailor.

I think that, like others have said, the situation the OP described is understandable. An honest, heartfelt apology and an open ended discussion about dealing with strong emotions would be my suggestion. I like to teach my kids that everyone makes mistakes, everyone has low points and bad days. What's important is the way we move on and what we learn from it.

Awesome suggestions on this thread. It sounds like many of us know very well the effects of sleep deprivation and stress.

I'd just like to add that while it's not fair to ask someone to not get mad and lose their temper, it is fair to ask that they try very hard to recognize what is going on and take every step possible to get away from a child if they are about to lose it. Even if a child isn't physically hurt, it IS scary to watch a parent lose control. Maybe the OP can ask her DP to ask for help or take a few minutes break to cool off if her feels himself loosing it. Kids can handle a parent saying, "I'm getting upset, I need to go somewhere and cool off." In fact, it's very good role modeling.

[AllisonR]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

I don't think her DH has anger issues. I think her DH is overworked and overtired, and with stress added to that it's a good thing all he did was swear and punch a hole in the wall!

This. And a child that won't sleep, when you would give a million dollars for that luxury can be really really really frustrating. Not saying it is logical, but humans aren't always logical, especially when they are tired, stressed or both. BTDT. When DS was young and I was so sleep deprived, and DH was gone, I probably could have punched a wall out, only I was afraid of breaking my hand in the process! I've had to walk out of the room though, out of frustration and rage. And even smoke a cigarette, and I wasn't a smoker! Young kids and lack of sleep is a crazy time. This is one of the toughest stages, imo. You'll both get through it though.

[honeybee]

My dh is the most hands-on, amazing father.

But, yeah, he yells, occasionally uses bad language, and twice (incidents quite spaced apart) he punched holes in the wall. But he has never hit the kids in anger (and I have spanked once or twice in anger, despite my very anti-spanking philosophy, so I can't even say that!), and spends so much time with them, changes diapers, walks wakeful kids to sleep, and is a true parenting partner.

Parenting gets stressful, and we all make mistakes. Dh and I always apologize to the kids when we are out of line, and we try to take measures to do better. I think we're still doing a much better job than our respective parents (who were not terrible by any means, either), and overall our kids live in a stable, loving home where they feel safe.

I would try to make sure your dh knows you forgive him (as it sounds like he knows it wasn't the best reaction and feels bad about it), and you know he is trying his best for his family. When I screw up, I am so grateful when dh does not condemn me for it.

[Bluegoat]

I've flipped out inappropriately a the kids with these kind of stressors. Once, in a non-child related incident, I even broke a cast iron frying pan in half. Apologize, fix the hole, and remember for the next time. Also, I agree with the pp who said your ds should also know he didn't behave appropriately either.

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by Bluegoat

I've flipped out inappropriately a the kids with these kind of stressors. Once, in a non-child related incident, I even broke a cast iron frying pan in half. Apologize, fix the hole, and remember for the next time. Also, I agree with the pp who said your ds should also know he didn't behave appropriately either.

This. There are two holes in our walls, and they're both from ME (and yep, I was sleep deprived and stressed beyond my limits both time). Totally not okay, but I'm only human, and so is the OP's dh. Dh punched a hole in a door at our old house once when he working third shift (12 hour shifts, at that). Sleep deprivation can seriously mess people up, and I know that dealing with kids who refuse to sleep stresses me out worse than just about anything.

So yeah, tell your ds that it wasn't okay for daddy to do that, but I wouldn't make a huge deal about it. Tell your dh that you appreciate that he was trying to give you a break, but that you know how hard it is to handle stress when you're tired and you'd rather he just got some sleep. I think it's reasonable to ask dh to apologize to ds for scaring him, but I wouldn't demand he promise it never happen again.

[suziek]

I think you've received some good advic and support here, OP. And I concur with most of it: understand the stress DH is under, but also consider how frightening this is for DS; fix the wall; help DH find better ways to manag his stress, etc.

I will respectfully add one more suggestion, and this is something you can do to help the situation: rethink DS' bedtime so it is less of a struggle. I realize I know nothing about how you live and what different schedules and needs you might be balancing. Please forgive what may come off as presumption. This really is just a respectful suggestion. IMHO 10 pm is a very late bedtime for a 3 yo. I would think 7 would be a better time to settle the guy down. Perhaps it is a struggle at 10 pm because he is overtired. In any case, I have found (through trial and error) that gentle, quick and undramatic early bedtimes do wonders for the whole family.

Lots has been written on this issue, on these boards and elsewhere. I'd suggest No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantly if you chose to go this route and need a place to start.

Good luck.

[homemademom]

Originally Posted by suziek

I think you've received some good advic and support here, OP. And I concur with most of it: understand the stress DH is under, but also consider how frightening this is for DS; fix the wall; help DH find better ways to manag his stress, etc.

I will respectfully add one more suggestion, and this is something you can do to help the situation: rethink DS' bedtime so it is less of a struggle. I realize I know nothing about how you live and what different schedules and needs you might be balancing. Please forgive what may come off as presumption. This really is just a respectful suggestion. IMHO 10 pm is a very late bedtime for a 3 yo. I would think 7 would be a better time to settle the guy down. Perhaps it is a struggle at 10 pm because he is overtired. In any case, I have found (through trial and error) that gentle, quick and undramatic early bedtimes do wonders for the whole family.

Lots has been written on this issue, on these boards and elsewhere. I'd suggest No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantly if you chose to go this route and need a place to start.

Good luck.

YES to the early bedtime. It's how we all keep our sanity at my house.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by Bluegoat

Also, I agree with the pp who said your ds should also know he didn't behave appropriately either.

We're talking about an adult vs. a child. This is a non-equal power situation. Given that dad punched a hole in the wall, ds should not be told that he did anything wrong, lest he feel guilty for the resulting hole in the wall.

[taramoon13]

just wanted to say everyone has really made me feel better knowing i'm not the only one who has been in situations like this. just to address a few things, dh did apologize to ds right away and we are trying to just move on and not dwell on it, i took someone's suggestion to cover the hole with a picture until it's fixed. also, for the record ds' bedtime is 9-9:30, meaning start mellowing out at around 8. he's been this late for a while unless he had no nap he just isn't ready to fall asleep until then. i had started getting him in "sleep-mode" that night at around 8 as always & like i said he just got a second wind when dh came home. we have a new one on the way in feb., i just hope his sleep gets better by then!!!!!!

[Smithie]

Two holes in the wall and one busted armoire in this family so far. No injured children yet, and I don't think that we're at a higher risk because inanimate objects have occasionally been damaged. And the repair skills dh has gained have proved useful on many non-anger-related occasions.

But it does serve as a wake-up call that the limit of emotional endurance has been reached and a change needs to be made. Bath at seven, bed by eight is what I'd try with a toddler. If your dh is walking in the door at 10 p.m. after working all the hours God gave the day, then it's really really really best if ds is solidly asleep. Time to make that your first priority, beyond dishes or laundry or anything else.

Other posters may differ, but by the age of three I insisted that my children remain in their beds. I sat outside their doors and led them back to bed five million times if necessary. For my middle child in particular, this was an awful phase that really tried my patience, but she has great sleep habits now. My
insistence that she stay in her bed did not hurt her. She doesn't fear sleep, her bed, or me. The arrival of the next baby actually helped matters - the baby started sharing a room with her once she night weaned, and they both enjoy the company. So don't dread your upcoming happy event - this new little person may actually solve your problem!

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by A&A

We're talking about an adult vs. a child. This is a non-equal power situation. Given that dad punched a hole in the wall, ds should not be told that he did anything wrong, lest he feel guilty for the resulting hole in the wall.

I agree with this, especially if this type of thing isn't something he sees frequently or is something that terrifies him. I have yelled at my dd a few times in her life and that has been a very scary experience for both of us. I can't imagine how terrifying having your father punch a hole in the wall near you and swear at you would be. His behavior was three year old behavior and letting it go in the face of a very traumatic event isn't going to do long term damage. Even letting it go won't really do harm on occasion. You don't have to talk over 100% of the negative behaviors a child has, it really turns out okay to just do 90.

I think it would be a good idea for you and your husband to sit down together and discuss how you want to teach your son to manage his anger. If you are fine with him punching things (which you mention has happened before) and swearing then just addressing the stress and finding ways to reduce it makes the sense. If you want your son to learn to manage his anger in a different way then maybe you can all pursue something individually or as a family. There is a book called Raising a Thinking Child that has some wonderful activities for working together to recognize and work with emotions as a family. There are also sometimes anger management classes geared only towards men, which can be nice for some men who want to focus on their anger but aren't comfortable fully expressing their emotions even in front of their wives (my step-dad did one that made a big difference). I don't think you need to leave him and I do think that he had every reason to be angry and a good excuse for losing it. If that isn't what you want to continue to live with and isn't what you want your son to see as a model for his anger then I think you need to work with him to find a way to reduce his stress so he will be able to succeed at finding a more effective way to manage his anger without destroying things and lashing out verbally at people.

[Marsupialmom]

Originally Posted by A&A

We're talking about an adult vs. a child. This is a non-equal power situation. Given that dad punched a hole in the wall, ds should not be told that he did anything wrong, lest he feel guilty for the resulting hole in the wall.

I don't think guilt is always a bad thing. I DO THINK in this situation you have to know your child. BUT at the same time I do think a little guilt could help build a little empathy and understanding. Developing guilt does not mean guilt tripping. We develop guilt when we say you squeezed the bug to hard and it died that is not the best way to treat bugs -let me show how. You develop a little guilt but teach differently. Relationships can be the same way you establish a behavior that a person should fill guilty over and work towards treating better.

Kids do not easily connect parent is working 60 -80 hours a week just so we can have food. Their long hours and being away is one way that person is showing love and taking care of him. Of course I would also talk about all the ways we take care of each other and each others responsibility. Children to parents and parents to children.

In the case the best way for a child to say I love you -- Is hugging, cuddling, and settling down.

Talking about this is not with out talking about parents behavior and how we all make mistakes. Parents make them to but not hitting walls is an expected behavior that you work towards. Hugging, and calmly cuddling down is a goal to work fork. Both behaviors are most respectful to all.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmom

I don't think guilt is always a bad thing.

The child is 3, and the size of a 3 year old.

Think about someone several times larger than you swearing at you and punching a hole in a wall near you.

Then think about it occurring when your cognitive and psychological processes are not yet fully formed.

"Guilt" is the last thing this child needs.

OP, I kindly suggest that you and dh read the book "Unconditional Parenting."

[Wild Lupine]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmom

I don't think guilt is always a bad thing. I DO THINK in this situation you have to know your child. BUT at the same time I do think a little guilt could help build a little empathy and understanding. Developing guilt does not mean guilt tripping. We develop guilt when we say you squeezed the bug to hard and it died that is not the best way to treat bugs -let me show how. You develop a little guilt but teach differently. Relationships can be the same way you establish a behavior that a person should fill guilty over and work towards treating better.

Kids do not easily connect parent is working 60 -80 hours a week just so we can have food. Their long hours and being away is one way that person is showing love and taking care of him. Of course I would also talk about all the ways we take care of each other and each others responsibility. Children to parents and parents to children.

This may be going in a direction that the OP doesn't intend, but I am doubtful if age three is the right time for this lesson. From the OP's description it sounds like her son was overtired, and overtired kids have a hard time settling down. That's normal kid behavior to me. Heck, even adults get insomnia and cannot sleep sometimes. It's hardly a punishable offense.

Yes, I totally get that Dad was exhausted, stressed, and had an un-proud parenting moment; I'm not out to condemn him and have a lot of sympathy for his situation. But to give any hint that the way he handled his anger was in any way the child's responsibility would be very damaging to the child.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by taramoon13

just wanted to say everyone has really made me feel better knowing i'm not the only one who has been in situations like this. just to address a few things, dh did apologize to ds right away and we are trying to just move on and not dwell on it, i took someone's suggestion to cover the hole with a picture until it's fixed. also, for the record ds' bedtime is 9-9:30, meaning start mellowing out at around 8. he's been this late for a while unless he had no nap he just isn't ready to fall asleep until then. i had started getting him in "sleep-mode" that night at around 8 as always & like i said he just got a second wind when dh came home. we have a new one on the way in feb., i just hope his sleep gets better by then!!!!!!

This kind of sleep schedule was an issue with both my kids around that age. If they napped, they couldn't sleep til 10 or later, if they didn't, they crashed in the middle of supper.

It's a fine line, but in the end as bedtimes creeped up, I got rid of the naps most days, and made sure I could give them an early supper if they looked too tired for a later one. It made for some cranky late afternoons for a while, but they seemed to adjust after a few weeks. Dd2 will still have a nap on occasion, but mostly she is not and in bed by 7:30 or 8. I think a lot of three yer olds are ready to lose the afternoon nap.