Carpal Tunnel Signs Side effect from a VAX?

[MommytoB]

In Jan my mom ended up getting a HIN1 shot so a few months later she started to struggle with her hands as in both of them which she Never ever has had problems with her hands before .

She is in constant pain with her hands that she is only doing One Hand Driving .

So I am wondering if there is a connection with that shot ?

If so and she gets another shot that is the H1N1 shot a year after she got her last one?

Could that effect her legs this time ?

[Iucounu]

Originally Posted by MommytoB

In Jan my mom ended up getting a HIN1 shot so a few months later she started to struggle with her hands as in both of them which she Never ever has had problems with her hands before .

She is in constant pain with her hands that she is only doing One Hand Driving .

So I am wondering if there is a connection with that shot ?

If so and she gets another shot that is the H1N1 shot a year after she got her last one?

Could that effect her legs this time ?

If you ate a ham sandwich, and a few months later you were hit by a car, would you suspect that the ham sandwich caused the car to hit you?

[PlayaMama]

has she been to a doctor to have it checked out? it could be arthritis that comes with age. i have a hard time seeing it as linked to the vax.

[ema-adama]

If the ham sandwich contained neurotoxins and was injected, I would not be so quick to dismiss it. It is impossible to dismiss something over the internet without any knowledge of the medical history of the person involved.

That said, just because vaccines can be associated with lifechanging negative side effects, does not mean that every unusual symptom is a result of a vaccine.

OP - there are lots of reasons why people get CTS. And there are ways of managing the the symptoms and regaining independence in daily tasks.

Ideally I would think it a good idea to find a doctor who is familiar with negative side effects (as in does not discount them as a matter of course) of vaccines and can assess your mother accordingly. It very well could be related to lifestyle or something other underlying medical condition.

[Iucounu]

The full analogue would include false research posted in an overseas journal causing mass hysteria about ham sandwiches, prompting some fringe organizations to draw links between ham and developmental disorders, though well-accepted research pointed to the contrary and no well-accepted research supported the fringe ideas. In such a situation I would continue to repeat the ham sandwich analogy (and in fact I plan to).

[heathergirl67]

If you believe the claims that vaccines injure the immune system, then yes, they can be implicated in literally every type of physical malady. However, there is no evidence that vaccines harm everyone's immune systems. Many people claim that even those who don't "react" negatively are still having damage done to them that just can't be seen yet. They say it over and over enough that some may come to accept that. But that is just a guess and there is no proof of that. That's why it's so important when considering vaccines to learn about the difference between causation and correlation.

[ema-adama]

Iucounu, I think it is a fair assessment that you would go so far as to support mandatory vaccination? IMO, this attitude is often accompanied by an a belief that vaccine reactions are so rare as to make them next to non-existent. And an outright dismissal of any correlation between a vaccine and a dramatic change for the worse in the life of the patient. The patient questioning the vaccine is given as evidence that the patient cannot think clearly.

This is overall a very popular opinion, and you are certainly not alone. However, I find it fascinating that you can be so sure of yourself as to dismiss someones symptoms over the Internet without actually knowing anything really about her medical condition. Also, you will find that discussions that push for mandatory vaccination are not encouraged here. There is no shortage of places to find this opinion on the Internet and parents who are looking for that opinion can find it elsewhere. Discussions on making individual choices for vaccination are of course welcome. The more the discussion focuses on issues pertinent to each disease and each vaccine, the more helpful the discussion, IMO anyway.

Heathergirl, no, there is no evidence that vaccines harms *everyones* immune system. That is certainly not a belief I ascribe to. I do think vaccines can be implicated in the deterioration of some peoples health. Just like any drug that can and does have unwanted side effects. The standard line of 'that would never be possible' and 'we have no evidence in the medical literature to indicate that this is indeed a problem' is brushing aside real concerns and questions that people/parents might have.

I think it is worth noting that until not too long ago, any claim that neurodevelopmental disorders had an environmental element in the etiology was mocked and dismissed as parental hysteria. Today scientists studying these issues know that it is not only genetic. Now, before anyone gets all jumpy - I am not saying vaccines have been implicated. There is no shortage of toxic chemicals in our environment, unfortunately.

Knowing that there is very little done to study the safety of chemicals in our environment, including neurotoxins in vaccines, does not reassure me. Just because it is not in the literature saying it is unsafe, does not make it safe. If the safety has not been studied, it is easy to say that there is no literature and we can all heave a sigh of relief? Think of the mess trying to figure out if thimerasol is safe or not, even after it had been removed from vaccines. For decades it was used without it's safety being studied. No one thought of it as unsafe, so it just was assumed it was safe.

I think this whole debate comes down to how willingly you accept the possibility that *in some cases* the risk for the vaccine outweighed the benefits for *that individual*.

There are reasons to vaccinate - mandatory vaccines is not one of them IMO.

OP - as I posted earlier, there are many reasons why someone can develop symptoms such as you described. While the Internet can be a good tool for getting information, with medical issues, often I think it is better to consult someone who is qualified and experienced to address your concerns. It is next to impossible to convey the whole picture over the Internet, and certainly not to a group of strangers who have strong opinions that are likely to cloud their ability to be of any real help (me included).

[heathergirl67]

Ema-adama:

I don't know where you got the idea that Iucounu supports mandatory vaccination. I've never seen her say anything like that at all. To the point where it makes me suspicious that you're just trying to get her punished by a moderator because it's just pulled that out of thin air.

I never said that you believe that vaccinations harm everyone. Nor was I trying to infer it. I'm not sure where you got that impression, either.

Thimerisol has been studied to death and found to be of no concern for most people when it's vaccines at the amount it was. That's why people have now shifted the blame to aluminum.

Saying "'we have no evidence in the medical literature to indicate that this is indeed a problem" doesn't sound like it's dismissive to me. To me, it sounds like saying, "I have nothing to prove this," not, "This is not true." If I remember correctly, scientific theory cannot prove a negative.

I think this whole debate comes down to how willingly you accept the possibility that *in some cases* the risk for the vaccine outweighed the benefits for *that individual*.

Perhaps, but I haven't seen anyone engaging in that debate in this thread. This thread seems so far to have been very focused on the question of the OP: Could vaccines have caused her mom's carpal tunnel syndrome?

In summary, I think you went off on a couple of tangents here. Which is not to say that your points aren't valid, just not something specific to this thread. I've done that before too. Someone says something that reminds me of something that someone else said.... and it ends with someone calling me out and me realizing that the basis of my butt hurt was conjecture, or something from my imagination. At which point I tuck my tail in between my legs and say, "Well, yeah, but..." while backing out of the room.

[ema-adama]

OP- I am sorry this has gone so off topic. I do hope that you are able to find someone who can answer your questions.

Heathergirl. Telling the person who is asking a question that a ham sandwich has as much likelihood of causing a neurological problem as a vaccine is precisely saying that that vaccines never cause any problems and that thinking they *might* be involved is pure fantasy. If Iucounu wishes to clarify just what that comment meant, it might help this discussion.

If you want to discuss Thimerasol and the history of the preservative and what is known and not known about it, it would probably be best to open a new thread.

I was concerned that the OP would feel like her question was not being taken seriously with such a response. I was not saying the vaccine and her mothers symptoms necessarily have anything to do with each other, just that outright dismissal is not helpful.

[Iucounu]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

OP- I am sorry this has gone so off topic. I do hope that you are able to find someone who can answer your questions.

Heathergirl. Telling the person who is asking a question that a ham sandwich has as much likelihood of causing a neurological problem as a vaccine is precisely saying that that vaccines never cause any problems and that thinking they *might* be involved is pure fantasy. If Iucounu wishes to clarify just what that comment meant, it might help this discussion.

Sure thing. What I meant was that it makes about as much sense to suspect that ham sandwich in the example of causing the car crash as it is to suspect a vaccination of causing a disease or disorder, just because someone has had the vaccination in the preceding months or years.

In fact, vaccines can cause severe problems or even death in extremely rare cases (though this doesn't change the fact that no evidence of causation is still no evidence, and no assumptions should be made on the basis of extremely rare serious side effects in others). I've never said or written anything to the contrary, as far as I can remember. I understand you're frustrated that I point out the lack of causation with such a pointed analogy (ripped off from another thread here), but raising straw-man arguments doesn't mean I'm in the wrong somehow.

That's the sort of problematic assumption that seems to crop up here often-- that vaccines are at fault simply because someone has had one. There should be some sort of stronger link than just that someone, like a great number of people today, happened to get a vaccination previously in time at some point.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by Iucounu

That's the sort of problematic assumption that seems to crop up here often-- that vaccines are at fault simply because someone has had one. There should be some sort of stronger link than just that someone, like a great number of people today, happened to get a vaccination previously in time at some point.

Oh, I completely agree. Just because you had a vaccine and now your health is impaired does not necessarily mean the one caused the other.

However, it is also not beyond the realm of reason. I guess where we would disagree is on just how plausible it is that a vaccine is associated with a decline in health.

IMO outright rejection of the idea of a vaccine being part of the picture when it comes to a deterioration in health feeds the concern/hysteria. Obviously if I started to have trouble controlling my eyes blinking I would be hard pressed to link that to the tetanus vaccine I received 20+ years ago. But there is a lot that falls between my eye blinking problem (my eyes are fine - this is just an example) and a case of anaphylactic shock.

Listening to people and their concerns and answering specific questions (while not assuming they are idiots, even if they are not educated as medical doctors) goes a long long way to improving communication.

I do not think vaccines are evil, or the best thing since sliced bread. They are a drug, and administered across a population are likely to have side effects. It does not make sense to assume every person will respond predictably. Making it prudent to do the best risk benefit analysis you can on an individual basis.

[heathergirl67]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

If you want to discuss Thimerasol and the history of the preservative and what is known and not known about it, it would probably be best to open a new thread.

Lol, that's exactly the point I was trying to make to you, since you were the one who brought thimerisol up in the first place:

Think of the mess trying to figure out if thimerasol is safe or not, even after it had been removed from vaccines. For decades it was used without it's safety being studied. No one thought of it as unsafe, so it just was assumed it was safe.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by heathergirl67

If you believe the claims that vaccines injure the immune system, then yes, they can be implicated in literally every type of physical malady. However, there is no evidence that vaccines harm everyone's immune systems. Many people claim that even those who don't "react" negatively are still having damage done to them that just can't be seen yet. They say it over and over enough that some may come to accept that. But that is just a guess and there is no proof of that. That's why it's so important when considering vaccines to learn about the difference between causation and correlation.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you are trying to say here (bolded phrase)?

Lol, that's exactly the point I was trying to make to you, since you were the one who brought thimerisol up in the first place:

I was making the point that the safety of neurotoxins in vaccines was not really studied, making an absence of evidence not indicative of safety, but indicative of lack of study on the issue.

I was not aware that the lack of safety studies on thimerasol prior to the 1990's was a controversial statement. I was not discussing the recent studies.

I am guessing we are missing each others points on subtle levels - and hence the ping pong of trying to clarify just what we meant.

[pregnant@40]

Originally Posted by MommytoB

In Jan my mom ended up getting a HIN1 shot so a few months later she started to struggle with her hands as in both of them which she Never ever has had problems with her hands before .

She is in constant pain with her hands that she is only doing One Hand Driving .

So I am wondering if there is a connection with that shot ?

If so and she gets another shot that is the H1N1 shot a year after she got her last one?

Could that effect her legs this time ?

Has your mother been to a provider for an assessment? Has osteoarthritis been ruled out? Does your mother do repetitive type work with her hands? Does she have any symptoms in her legs? There are so many possibilities, that wondering if it's the H1N1 w/out getting a full assessment gets you nowhere.

[MommytoB]

Thanks ever so much for your responses .

The only reason why I'm wondering the connection but who knows maybe she might have had the signs early before we know because she doesnt share with the family of her problems until it's obvious .

My mom is soon to be 60 . She has always been active as in riding bikes at least 25 miles round trip that includes gripping on the handle of the bike .

This even includes spinning during the wintertime.

She also has a huge flower bed at her house that she has always planted & pulled out weeds with no problems.

She cuts the families hair except for my SIL hair.

She has always did hair since me and my brother were little babies.

Just this summer she mentioned how severe pain she was in that she even had trouble cutting hair and keeping her hands on the wheel because she was in so much pain.

[heathergirl67]

I'm so sorry for your mom. I, too, am suffering from pain that is interfering with everyday activities. Along with the physical pain, it can get very depressing. I hope that your mom gets the help she needs and feels better soon.