respectful question about fake meat products - Page 5

[Sayward]

Originally Posted by catnip

That article uses very different statistics than *any other* that I have read on the subject.

I don't have time to dig for statistics on the subject right now on a borrowed computer, but a google search will turn up plenty.

The article also talks about using industrial waste as animal feed, which is what the advocates of free pastured happy meat expect their food animals to be eating.

Even taking that into account, it doesn't factor in the hundreds of times more water that is needed to produce animal foods. I've read statistics that show that eating a single vegan meal saves more water than is used in a month's worth of showers:

You beat me to it!

[Purple Sage]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

This is untrue. I recently read a great blog post addressing such arguments. Some good discussions in the comments, too.

Thanks for posting. I'm making my way through the comments now - interesting stuff.

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

I can't explain why you have issues with fake meat products, but as someone who now eats meat on a daily basis, I taste said products often and they taste completely different. To me. Maybe you can't taste the difference, or feel the difference, but I can pick out a vegetarian option a mile away.

Perhaps you're tasting the salt and seasonings in pre-seasoned burgers and Bocas? And you had learned to associate that seasoning with meat, and now your mind tells you that those particular spices are meat? Powdered garlic, salt, dash of chili powder, onion powder, and "proprietary mix" involving, most likely, ground cumin might give you that impression.

But take those spices away and they taste totally different.

I'm sorry to have offended you, but well. It never occurred to me that there were people out there that felt that soy and beans tasted like beef. I really think you are tasting the spices. But I'm not you so I don't know.

i actually use those spices in my bean dishes all the time

i'm pretty sure it's the texture, the chewiness of gluten and the fat that coats it that reminds me of meat.

i _tried_ really hard to eat meat for awhile because i felt that my veg diet was responsible for the knee issues i'm having and i just couldn't do it. the chicken broth i made coated my tongue in a weird way, the bacon that i tried was chewy with the connective tissue.... yuck. not to be dramatic but it was gross.

and the textures of the fake meats are almost just as bad. what's weird is that i am not sensitive in any other way to textures, meat (and eggs and milk- same thing, don't drink rice or soy or nut milks either) are the only things that trigger me. though i can eat eggs scrambled if i mix in lots of peppers and salsa.

[ameliabedelia]

I'm not a vegetarian or vegan, but I used to be. I think most people eat veggie burger or veggie "chicken nuggets' simple for the convenience of it. And, some of it did taste pretty good. However, I think the convenience is a big factor. It's fast and easy to prepare, it something you can take to cookout, etc.

Yes, there are lots of other tasty vegan and vegetarian dishes...but they are generally more time-consuming to prepare (except for something like peanut butter and jelly..yk). Rice and beans, or quinoa salad, are healthy and tasty...but take more effort and time than popping a veggie burger into the microwave.

[I-Love-Alaska]

Originally Posted by Jadzia

I find it interesting (and surprising) that people actually consider animal foods to be "unprocessed"? You are eating everything that the animal ate and was injected with and the meat goes through quite a lot of processing after slaughter too.

I'll take a bean burger any day, thanks.

Amen, sister!! Animal meat is far from unprocessed!!

[Juvysen]

this conversation is fascinating. I'm an omnivore, but have leaned veg (yes, I realize that doesn't really qualify me at all ) but the fake meat products never did anything for me. I could see doing it for a texture thing (like if I was craving the texture of meat, but opposed to eating it). I don't mind tofu or seitan or homemade black bean burgers, but it doesn't seem to claim to be meat like a lot of other fake meat options do (like fake sausage or tofurky are clearly trying to mimic meat - or at least their marketing seems to suggest that), but I don't like eating a lot of soy for other reasons.

I agree with people who puzzle over people who choose vegetarianism for health reasons but then stick to mostly heavily processed foods (i know a few), but hey, it's their life, they can eat what they want. *shrug*

[lovebug]

Originally Posted by Sharlla

i imagine for those who do like meat but are vegan due to ethical reasons.

this.

i dont see it as 'fake' for me it is plan and simply NOT meat. sure to some it is made to look and feel 'like' meat, but its NOT meat. for someone who has never seen meat it would just be what it is and that is all. the thread here gets to 'call' it 'fake' meat because we know the real thing. that does not change for me the fact that it is not meat so it cant be fake meat.

[Zoesmama]

I'm not sure either. I was raised omni. We ate meat(me not as much as my brothers and mother) but also lots of fresh veggies/fruite(our own garden grown at many years too, when we were able to have a garden). I stopped eating meat for about a year and half to two years in high school. It was not really the healthy way to do it since I didn't really replace with good protein sources. I was also avoiding cheese and milk until I discovered skim(that my grandma drank) was not bothering my tummy like 2% milk, ice cream(still eat that even with a upset tummy ) and cheese did. Of course I fell into the media that milk is needed for my bones and tried to drink more.

I think its helpful for transition periods for some people. I never get it either and while I love the Gardenburger California veggie burgers I try not to eat too much processed soy I'm sure I get enough of it in the occasional processed traditional foods(but have cut a lot of that out too).

It does seem really silly to make veggie "meat". But I suppose it helps people feel more normal to say I ate burgers and whatnot. I'm not totally veg*n either. I have a goal to be 100% vegan but its tough living with people that have different ideas about what is a balanced proper "diet". Thankfully my brother(live with) is into whole foods and I'm working at cutting it out. I'd say dd and I are flexitarian. We eat it when its not convenient to omit and don't when its easier.

[PikkuMyy]

This quote didn't come out properly but I won't eat meat:

Originally Posted by Sayward

. . . because animals die for it


and I will eat "fake" meat, cheese, etc.


. . . because animals don't die for it.

I have been vegan for more than 10 years for ethical reasons. Since there were no animals harmed in the making of my Daiya cheese, or my seitan "chicken" salad, I have absolutely no problem with it.

[greenmulberry]

This is an interesting discussion. I was vegetarian for 10 years, I ate boca burgers and meat "analogues" because they added variety to my diet, and nothing had to die to make them! Plus they were super convenient. I don't always want to cook from scratch.

Now, as a non vegetarian, I eat boca burgers because they are easy and convenient. Way less work than a meat burger!

Boca burgers do not taste like meat to me. A burger is so different. When I had been veggie for quite a while, at the time I did think they tasted meat like, but you forget what meat actually tastes like.

[KaylaBeanie]

Because I love the way meat tastes. I mourn my loss of it, and sometimes I crave it like crazy. I grew up eating meat once or more a day, and making a drastic change is hard. Sometimes, I want nuggets. Not to mention, there's the factor of fitting in. It's REALLY nice to be able to put some fake crumbles in lasagna and be able to eat with my family. It's really awesome to be able to go to Red Robin and be able to eat the "same" thing as everyone else. In the year since I've become veg, I've gotten pretty good about limiting fake meat, but I do eat it. It's definitely not because they taste the same...I don't think I've had a chicken nugget since the age of four (yuck!), but I love chick'n nuggets!

Originally Posted by maciascl

I am not vegetarian because I don't like meat. I am vegetarian because it is healthier for me, the animals, and the planet. I still get cravings for meat so doesn't it make more sense for me to eat something that is meat-like (but I know never had a face) than to actually eat meat? I don't see why this is a big deal.

[CatsCradle]

I haven't eaten any animal "meat" for over 20 years. I like to have the occassional Not Dog or veggie burger because it ads variety to my diet. To me, it is food, not a substitute for something else. Plus, "burger" is the name of a product made from something...whether meat or veggies...so I'm not pretending to eat meat. I'm eating a burger. The burger happens to be made of vegetables.

When I go out to a vegan restaurant and order a seitan dish, I'm eating seitan...which I happen to like and which leaves me full and satisfied. I don't pretend I'm eating meat. Perhaps for new vegetarians, the marketed alternative meat products help to make the transition. I don't eat a lot of the processed stuff because it is so high in salt, etc.

In the alternative, sometimes I will have a diet Coke because it has the taste without the added sugar calories. People all over the world drink diet soft drinks but it honestly doesn't concern me that they aren't drinking the real thing or that they are pretending to drink the real thing. Food is food, in my book. I just don't think that animals are food. I have no problem eating things make from tofu or gluten, even if they are marketed as an alternative to meat. In my mind, they are not animals, so it is hard to reconcile with the concept that I'm pretending to eat an animal.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by catnip

Even taking that into account, it doesn't factor in the hundreds of times more water that is needed to produce animal foods.

Former vegan diet supporter and UK Guardian writer George Monbiot recently published "I was wrong about veganism. Let them eat meat – but farm it properly" based on the book, "Meat – A Benign Extravagance" by former co-editor of The Ecologist magazine Simon Fairlie (the link is for a short excerpt of the book).

Monbiot says that Fairlie:

"[...] goes on to butcher a herd of sacred cows. Like many greens I have thoughtlessly repeated the claim that it requires 100,000 litres of water to produce every kilogram of beef. Fairlie shows that this figure is wrong by around three orders of magnitude. It arose from the absurd assumption that every drop of water that falls on a pasture disappears into the animals that graze it, never to re-emerge. A ridiculous amount of fossil water is used to feed cattle on irrigated crops in California, but this is a stark exception."

I wonder if the book will be sold in the U.S.?

[catnip]

Well, I'll point out that I LIVE in California, where of about 37 million people, about 92% of them want to eat meat every day, and 98% or more want to eat dairy. And you can't DO that with pastured livestock.