Health + Enviornment (which is better/worse for both)?

[Mama Soltera]

**Specifically PRODUCE** What do you think? I know there is gray area but do your best to just pick one side. (please read poll carefully and consider both food and enviornmental health)

[Mama Soltera]

I'm realizing I should have said "produce" instead of food. I mean produce. Sorry!

[catnip]

There's an awful lot of 'it depends.'

I live in an area where hardy greens, broccoli and cabbage can be grown year-round, and where I can get local, organic kiwi and citrus fruits all winter. Between that and storage foods like sweet potatoes, winter squash, onions and the like, I can eat local AND organic produce year round as long as I don't want tomatoes and watermelon in February. So it isn't an either/or.

Certain foods naturally don't need/use a lot of pesticides, so garlic, onions and asparagus for example, it's better to buy local than worrying about organic. This comes up for me every spring, when the local organic garlic is all sold out and the new crop is still curing. I buy conventional for a month until I can get organic again rather than buy the organic that's coming from Chile.

[katroshka]

I can't pick! I think it isn't quite so simple. I buy just about all my produce from local, small, organic farms. I'm lucky to live in San Diego where we can get pretty much all your basic produce locally all year round. One exception is apples, which can be hard to buy locally, from elsewhere in CA is easier but not always possible, either. So I will buy them from Washington state when necessary, but I won't buy them from Chile or New Zealand. I tend to think more regionally than by state, I mean, Arizona is a lot closer than Sonoma County (not that much comes from Arizona). We also have a lot of organic farms south of the border that I will buy from.

Also, there is a lot of certified organic produce from CA that I don't trust. A lot of the organic produce at large chain stores is still big agribusiness, and their practices are often questionable. So they may be in CA, but I won't buy from them.

[Sayward]

Originally Posted by catnip

There's an awful lot of 'it depends.'

I live in an area where hardy greens, broccoli and cabbage can be grown year-round, and where I can get local, organic kiwi and citrus fruits all winter. Between that and storage foods like sweet potatoes, winter squash, onions and the like, I can eat local AND organic produce year round as long as I don't want tomatoes and watermelon in February. So it isn't an either/or.

Certain foods naturally don't need/use a lot of pesticides, so garlic, onions and asparagus for example, it's better to buy local than worrying about organic. This comes up for me every spring, when the local organic garlic is all sold out and the new crop is still curing. I buy conventional for a month until I can get organic again rather than buy the organic that's coming from Chile.

You! Always with the taking words out of my mouth!

Really though, it depends on SO much.

Where do you live? Is there naturally enough water there? How long is the growing season?

Is there a Farmer's Market? If you're not getting certified organic, does that mean it's drenched in pesticides or does that mean it's not sprayed at all but just not certified?

Where is the non-local stuff coming from? How is the exportation assisting that local economy? Would they be in huge financial trouble without that inflow of commerce?

In my opinion, it really depends on where you live and needs to be taken on a veggie by veggie basis. Sorry, I know that's not what you were looking for. However I really recommend checking out this book: Just Food: Where Locavores Get It Wrong and How We Can Truly Eat Responsibly or listen to this awesome interview with the author, here.

[mamadelbosque]

In general I go with local. Especially since much of whats 'organic' is really not *that* much better these days when grown commericially. I mean, theres not *THAT* much difference between a 5000 acre organic lettuce farm and a 5000 acre conventional lettuce farm. You know?? So, while there are certainly exceptions, generally I/we prefere local to organic.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by katroshka

I can't pick! I think it isn't quite so simple. I buy just about all my produce from local, small, organic farms. I'm lucky to live in San Diego where we can get pretty much all your basic produce locally all year round.

You are lucky. I think that's one of the main reasons driving the popularity of the raw vegan diet in CA.

It's much harder in states that can only grow crops during certain months of the year. Just take a look at any crop calendar; some states can't grow any produce for months on end.

[CookAMH]

Looking at things generally, there are MANY produce items that are fine to get non-organic. Also, there are many farmers who are not certified organic but also aren't heavily laden with pesticides. One example is a berry farmer where my parents live - the bushes are sprayed before any fruit grows, and that's it. I feel there is less residue on that and a great item to buy!

The downside of buying organic from out of state is a loss in freshness and nutrients. I do like to support local businesses when I can.

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by Sayward

In my opinion, it really depends on where you live and needs to be taken on a veggie by veggie basis. Sorry, I know that's not what you were looking for. However I really recommend checking out this book: Just Food: Where Locavores Get It Wrong and How We Can Truly Eat Responsibly or listen to this awesome interview with the author, here.

Can you give a little more info on the book? I m not in the state to buy any new books right at the moment, but would love more info.

I voted "local", but I wont buy local apples unless they are organic or IPM because of the pesticide load. And that is why I do without drive about an hour away abnd stock up when I am at the IPM orchard. Lad the back of your truck bed up for $50 or your mini van packed for $20.

[KnittingShaker]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

I voted "local", but I wont buy local apples unless they are organic or IPM because of the pesticide load. And that is why I do without drive about an hour away abnd stock up when I am at the IPM orchard. Lad the back of your truck bed up for $50 or your mini van packed for $20.

Where is this orchard???

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by mamadelbosque

In general I go with local. Especially since much of whats 'organic' is really not *that* much better these days when grown commericially. I mean, theres not *THAT* much difference between a 5000 acre organic lettuce farm and a 5000 acre conventional lettuce farm. You know?? So, while there are certainly exceptions, generally I/we prefere local to organic.

No, I don't get what you're saying. How is eating a head of pesticide free lettuce no different from eating a head of pesticide-laden lettuce?

[Artichokie]

Depends on the produce. Anything in the dirty dozen we'll absolutely buy out of state organic over local conventional. Apples, peaches, grapes, and russet potatoes come to mind. In other cases, we prefer fresh local over organic. Examples include sweet corn (which imo should be eaten the same day it is picked) and watermelon.

[theatermom]

I agree that it depends on a lot. Whenever possible, we get local AND organic. Our CSA, though not certified organic, uses sustainable practices, and reserves even minimal spraying for "emergency" situations. The dirty dozen (particularly peppers and apples) we absolutely choose organic over local (the local apples aren't always all that good anyway -- though we are careful to only buy apples from Sept. to March, at the latest, and we get them as close to home as possible).

That said, I'm not in favor of supporting a farm simply because it's local. After all, the commercial farms are all local to someone, right? I think it's important to safeguard one's health, and reward those farms who are moving in the right direction. If a local farm isn't organic, and isn't using or working towards using sustainable healthy practices, *why* isn't it? I'm not going to give my money and my family's health to someone on the basis of proximity rather than values. And if I only care about nutrients (and not pesticides, care of the earth, etc.), I'll take a multivitamin.

[Sayward]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

Can you give a little more info on the book? I m not in the state to buy any new books right at the moment, but would love more info.

I voted "local", but I wont buy local apples unless they are organic or IPM because of the pesticide load. And that is why I do without drive about an hour away abnd stock up when I am at the IPM orchard. Lad the back of your truck bed up for $50 or your mini van packed for $20.

It's super intricate, as most good analysis tends to be, so it's hard to summarize. But basically, he posits that there is a LOT more to consider when quantifying the footprint of food, than just 'miles traveled'. For example people who live in hot states with little water, actually pipe in water from other states, which is a HUGE energy expanse. It's actually more environmentally friendly in some cases like these to grow the food where it grows best (naturally) and then transport it. These seeming anomalies emerge when ALL the factors are taken into account.

Anyway, I don't know enough to speak on much more than that, but I highly highly recommend listening to the interview I linked. The dude is super smart and the ideas are unique, very interesting. =)