Friend's baby died...attempted homebirth then transfer :( Need some encouragement

[Amila]

Sigh. So sad for a friend in my mom's group right now. She was attempting her first homebirth (her third child) and I don't know all of the details, but she ended up transferring and needed am emergency c-section. Baby was having trouble breathing, but appeared to be okay...then he was flown to CHOP, and they had an MRI done, and the baby had complete brain damage from "labor injury." He was taken off life support today. My heart is breaking for her.

Aside from her horrible loss, I am having some anxiety about my upcoming homebirth (my second), as well as worrying about how this will affect our community in general (homebirth is already looked down upon). I know people will be saying "if she was in the hospital this never would have happened" and maybe that is true...

I know it is a different woman, different midwife, different situation, but I am still feeling a little restless about my impending HB. I really trust my midwife and I have homebirthed before, so I know things will be fine...but its still a little scary.

[cileag]

It is especially hard to deal with newborn deaths when you're pregnant---and especially in a home birth where the culture is negative.

When I was pregnant and working (I work in L and D) there was a home birth transfer with an poor outcome as well. It was really tough for a week or two, but what ultimately helped a little for me was to go back to some of the studies--the Canada ones and Netherlands ones especially---and reassure myself of the research. I also made it a point to read a good birth story almost every night--usually from Ina May's Guide or Spirtual Midwifery since they have so many. It really helped me flood my mind with thoughts of happy births.

Also, don't be afraid to bring it up with your midwife and talk about it. Maybe you'll do a little more frequent monitoring to make you more comfortable---maybe she'll come earlier. It's good for her to know of your anxiety as well.

[lovebeingamomma]

I also think it's important to focus on the positive. Nobody posts the stories of hospital births gone wrong that would have been preventable by homebirth. Those happen to, more than our culture wants to admit or reveal. I'm feeling the same way, pregnant with my 3rd and this will be my first homebirth, and although I know the statistics, I'm still a little concerned over the what if- in both cases, home & hospital. I think birth just scares me a little because it's so un-predictable. But we all know stress is no good for pregnancy, so I try to just focus on the dream birth and know that I will probably get it. And of course have an experienced trustworthy midwife with a good transfer plan.

[Jacksonmom]

Originally Posted by lovebeingamomma

I also think it's important to focus on the positive. Nobody posts the stories of hospital births gone wrong that would have been preventable by homebirth. Those happen too, more than our culture wants to admit or reveal.

[lunarlady]

Unfortunatly, some babies die at birth or shortly thereafter. It is possible that your friend's baby was going to suffer a fatal labor injury no matter where she was. You just have to remember that most births go very smoothly, and healthy babies are HB every day. Have faith in yourself, faith in your MW, and faith in birth. If it makes you feel better, make sure your backup plan is in place if you decide to transfer. But remember that the odds are in your favor for a successful HB.

[magentamomma]

when i delivered my twins at home another friend lost a set of twins at the hospital. I was protected from that knowledge till after my babes were safely born. None of my friends told me because they knew how hard it would be to internalize that. It is a tragedy but a reality that some babies die. I and all moms live in fear that it will be ours. You will do fine. Peace.

[erin_brycesmom]

Originally Posted by Amila

Sigh. So sad for a friend in my mom's group right now. She was attempting her first homebirth (her third child) and I don't know all of the details, but she ended up transferring and needed am emergency c-section. Baby was having trouble breathing, but appeared to be okay...then he was flown to CHOP, and they had an MRI done, and the baby had complete brain damage from "labor injury." He was taken off life support today. My heart is breaking for her.

Aside from her horrible loss, I am having some anxiety about my upcoming homebirth (my second), as well as worrying about how this will affect our community in general (homebirth is already looked down upon). I know people will be saying "if she was in the hospital this never would have happened" and maybe that is true...

I know it is a different woman, different midwife, different situation, but I am still feeling a little restless about my impending HB. I really trust my midwife and I have homebirthed before, so I know things will be fine...but its still a little scary.

I know who you are talking about and this woman was bleeding heavily for a long period of time and knew something was "obviously" wrong but ended up choosing to trust her midwife because she was a CNM. And the CNM told her it wasn't blood (just fluid) and that nothing was wrong until MW finally decided to transport. She even said she doesn't know how she believed what the MW was saying when she saw all that blood. I don't know exactly what the problem was (she doesn't either) but I certainly have a guess. Regardless, there were CLEAR SIGNS and this could almost surely could have been avoided. The signs began BEFORE labor even started. Given that, I would not let this shake your decision to homebirth. Just use common sense. If you start showing signs of a medical problem, seek medical help at a hospital promptly. Don't stay home for hours when you know something is wrong.

[ShwarmaQueen]

That is so sad. I can understand how it could worry you.

[babymango]

I was in a similar situation. My friend's HB was going well, and then at a FHR check, they found the baby to be in distress. The rate was in the 60s and wouldnt go back up no matter what they tried. it was her second baby, she was 8cm, so they stretched her cervix and made her push. The baby was born alive but very weak. She passed away within minutes. It didn't take long for a whole lot of EMTs to show up and work on the baby. They transfered the baby to the hospital but nothing could be done at that point. There was an autopsy and no reason was found. My friend discussed this with her midwife, an OB, a NICU doctor, the coroner... and got the same answer from all. There was nothing more that could have been done in the hospital. If anything, going for a C-section would have taken *longer* and the baby would not have been born alive. My friend finds great comfort in the fact that she got to touch her daughter while she was still alive. That story still makes me cry, but it also reminds me that there are situations that cannot be resolved, even in hospital, and sometimes home still is the best place.

[mamallama]

I'm so sorry

When I was 32wks with my 3rd (my most recent, and last,) baby, I attended my most dear friend at her hospital birth. Her baby died.

Fortunately for me (or not,) I'm an experienced doula. I had seriously contemplated the reality of prenatal/neonatal death long before I had to personally confront it.

It was still horrific. I was not even remotely prepared.

At the time I grieved my friend's loss and my unborn son's loss of the boy I thought would be his best friend.

Since, I have grieved my own loss of a peaceful third trimester and a peaceful birth. He was my last. I went into his birth with a grim resolve to do whatever I needed to do to have my baby as safely as possible, and the very real understanding that there are no guarantees. I didn't expect to find joy, but somehow, I did.

My friend's baby died in the hospital, so I didn't have that "well, if only they'd been in the hospital" thing to weigh on me. What I had to weigh on me instead was "what if they'd been at home?" What if his cord hadn't been cut immediately? What if he'd been resuscitated on his mother's chest with the midwifery model of nrp rather than the medical model? What if her labor had been unhindered or even unobserved? Would he have come out before his trauma happened?

In the end, it doesn't matter. The questions are pointless. They'll drive you mad if you let them.

I have given birth in a hospital hooked up to machines, at home with a team of midwives, and unassisted on my bathroom floor (planned, my last baby.) I have attended other women at home and in the hospital. I agree with you, birth is scary. Life is also scary. It's hard when our perspective gets whacked like that...but in the end (easy for me to say, 3 years later,) I truly believe that "birth is as safe as life gets."

You'll do fine, Amila. You'll do whatever you need to do, and it will be the right thing.

My advice for preparing for your upcoming birth is to go with the research, and when that fails, go with your gut.

[Fuamami]

A few months after I had my first baby, a good friend had a homebirth that resulted in a transfer. The baby survived, barely, but it was very traumatic. She was frank breach and the midwife had no idea. In fact, my friend pushed for HOURS before the mw figured out that she was feeling the butt and not the head.

When I got pg w/#2 and planned a homebirth, I was pretty nervous. I grilled my mw about possible scenarios for hours, and I really felt reassured by her. For one thing, at that time she had attended over 1000 births, unlike my friend's mw who was pretty inexperienced. There were other things my friend told me about her mw that made me question her education/intelligence/general ability.

Sooo, I guess I'm saying that if you have a good mw and feel very comfortable with her, you should feel reassured. And don't be afraid to bring up the other mother's situation with her. Ask her what she would have done differently, what she thought when wrong, what she will do if you have problems.

I'm sorry about your friend's baby.

[Partaria]

I'm so sorry that your friend went through this. It is beyond heartbreaking. And I'm sorry that it is also affecting you and weighing on you. How could it not? I have the same worries- I'm planning a homebirth. And I'm sure if I knew someone to whom this had all happened I'd be sick with anxiety.

I just wanted to reiterate what's been said by all these warm, smart women here. There will always be what-ifs. In any situation. That's part of the uncertainty of life that is often so difficult to live with. Your friend made the best choices she could at the time, with the best of intentions. There are things that can go wrong at home. There are things that can go wrong in the hospital. You can weigh the two until doomsday and never be sure which one is objectively "best."

In the end, remember that deep inside you, there are mama instincts born out of millions of years of human history. Listen to them, let them guide you. Fill your life with positive birth stories to counterbalance the sorrow you're feeling. And keep moving forward, mama.

Much love to you.

[liz-hippymom]

OP- please make sure you dont say anything like this to your friend. It is BS and even if it is not, it wont make her feel better. When people say this crap on about my birth, it makes me want to hurt them. it is disrespectful, so avoid it

Originally Posted by lunarlady

Unfortunatly, some babies die at birth or shortly thereafter. It is possible that your friend's baby was going to suffer a fatal labor injury no matter where she was. You just have to remember that most births go very smoothly, and healthy babies are HB every day. Have faith in yourself, faith in your MW, and faith in birth. If it makes you feel better, make sure your backup plan is in place if you decide to transfer. But remember that the odds are in your favor for a successful HB.

[lunarlady]

Liz-hippymom - I'm sorry my post upset you. It is true that some labor injuries and losses are avoidable, and I am familiar with your case and know that is true for you. However, birth injury and death can happen both at home and in the hospital, and that is why I said it is POSSIBLE that was the case for her friend's baby. Without knowing details, there is no way to judge if being in a different setting would have made a difference for that mom. All moms who have a bad birth experience question "would it have been better if I had done ______?". It is an individual thing to see if you find more comfort in the answer being "yes" or "no". As you can tell from my post, I am more of a "no" person. Once again I'm sorry to upset you. I would never want to add to the pain of a grieving mama. I have nothing but respect for the strength it takes to deal with the loss of a child.

[kcparker]

I know that taking care of your own pregnancy and birth is your #1 priority, but I just went to a workshop on stillbirth and perinatal loss, and I would like to put in a gentle push for you to consider a few things to do if you can muster the energy for it, things that will help this family:

1. Keep talking to them, or more importantly, keep listening. They are grieving, and there is not a good way to grieve this loss in our culture. It's sort of kept hidden or swept under the rug because nobody likes to think of dead babies. But they are hurting, and they need their community. So, check in on them, invite them out to the park for a BBQ, don't make them feel more isolated right now by shying away from them. Dead babies aren't contagious, I promise.

2. After your baby arrives, ask them if they would like to come over to visit. One thing one of the stillbirth parents at this workshop said was, "We WANTED to be around children, we wanted to have children in our lives. We wanted to celebrate our friends' babies with them." Not only did they not have their baby, but they were suddenly cut off from any babies, and it magnified their own sense of loss.

3. Support their decision to homebirth, especially if they have lots of people questioning them or questioning the wisdom of homebirth. They felt that they had to navigate this complicated decision-making process of whether or not to talk about homebirth because they were "bad press," and it was important for them that people in the homebirth community stood by them and their decision.

4. Remember their baby. Call the baby by name, send a card on the baby's birthday. Acknowledge that they had a child, now and in the future because that baby will always be a part of their hearts and their family.

[Kanna]

By now, you've probably given birth to your kid, and I sure hope all went well!

On this subject in general though, I'd say one should go with the option that makes them feel more relaxed and at ease NOW.

If one has started to worry about the safety of giving birth at home now, why spend the rest of the pregnancy worrying about how safe it is and thus spoiling the peace of mind you should have?

I checked out several hospitals in my vicinity, like other people check out midwives, and I found a really nice one, with a competent and friendly team composed of nurses (pediatric and gyn), midwives, OB's and pediatricians. (I live in Germany, so I'm not quite sure about the staffing in US hospitals).

In case of emergency, the OR was just down the corridor and they had an NICU too (we didn't need either as it turned out).

Concerning cesareans: As a med student I've been to a couple of them and they usually don't take long at all. I gave birth vaginally, but while we were nursing our newborns (the hospital had an extra, quiet little place for that, near the nursing station, so the nurses could come and help us with/ give us advice on breast-feeding if necessary), I chatted with a few ladies that had given birth via cesarean and they were in no worse condition than I was. Only difference: their ache was situated around the pelvis, mine was between my legs. I winced a little when I sat down, they winced a little when they laughed at jokes.

Birth is inherently dangerous, for the mom and the kid (a friend's wife would have bled to death if she hadn't given birth at the hospital...tear in the uterus) and so I felt most comfortable and relaxed giving birth at the hospital, knowing that there were trained professionals around me that had the expertise and equipment to deal with any kind of complication that could arise. 

If the baby is in SERIOUS mortal danger (like your friends' baby apparently was) the docs can do a crash cesarean (the rarest form of cesarean) which, from the decision to get the endangered kid out to acutally holding it and taking life-supporting measures if necessary, takes about 15 minutes, with about 5 minutes for the actual procedure.

Most people don't live near enough to the hospital to get that kind of fast treatment...in case of emergency, from calling the paramedics to getting the hospital alone will take at least 15 minutes...more, most of the time.

I know everyone deals with the scary bits of pregnancy and giving birth differently....for me, that meant a hospital with all the bells and whistles of modern medicine, which made me feel safe. Other moms have different things that make them feel safe. And any mom should go with the option that makes her feel safe about the whole experience!

[Arete]

I don't mean to go nuts here, and Kanna makes a number of good points, but I really have got to say this idea of a cesarean as not a big deal makes me very angry.  It IS a big deal.  I am well aware that some are necessary (I truly believe mine was), but it is a BIG deal.  How long it takes to perform is not the point at all.  Recovery time isn't the main point either (though if you get an infected scar like my sister-in-law did that sure makes it worse).  The point is the trauma of the experience itself.  If Amila wants a homebirth, and she's still motivated enough to go for it after what happened to her friend, it's probably because she really, really does NOT want to give birth (if you can call it that--I don't) hooked up to beeping machines, dead from the waist down, strapped to a hard metal table in an ice-cold room, surrounded by glaring lights and unfamiliar voices, while some total stranger digs around in her uterus through a hole he's just sliced in her belly.  I've had other surgeries and they weren't like this.  It's a thing unto itself, and I have spent the last year trying to climb out of the pit of PTSD it threw me into. 

[waluso]

I agree with Arete. A c-section IS a big deal, and how you are treated in a hospital is a big deal. I had a terrible hospital stay (in supposedly a mother-friendly hospital) and a long, difficult recovery from a c-section with my daughter.  This contributed to breastfeeding issues and health issues in my daughter that I am still dealing with 3 years later.  It has been a long difficult road.  Clearly hospitals can provide some benefits and some c-sections are necessary but there are significant downsides that need to be considered.

[mzpuff]

Originally Posted by mamallama 

I'm so sorry

When I was 32wks with my 3rd (my most recent, and last,) baby, I attended my most dear friend at her hospital birth. Her baby died.

Fortunately for me (or not,) I'm an experienced doula. I had seriously contemplated the reality of prenatal/neonatal death long before I had to personally confront it.

It was still horrific. I was not even remotely prepared.

At the time I grieved my friend's loss and my unborn son's loss of the boy I thought would be his best friend.

Since, I have grieved my own loss of a peaceful third trimester and a peaceful birth. He was my last. I went into his birth with a grim resolve to do whatever I needed to do to have my baby as safely as possible, and the very real understanding that there are no guarantees. I didn't expect to find joy, but somehow, I did.

My friend's baby died in the hospital, so I didn't have that "well, if only they'd been in the hospital" thing to weigh on me. What I had to weigh on me instead was "what if they'd been at home?" What if his cord hadn't been cut immediately? What if he'd been resuscitated on his mother's chest with the midwifery model of nrp rather than the medical model? What if her labor had been unhindered or even unobserved? Would he have come out before his trauma happened?

In the end, it doesn't matter. The questions are pointless. They'll drive you mad if you let them.

I have given birth in a hospital hooked up to machines, at home with a team of midwives, and unassisted on my bathroom floor (planned, my last baby.) I have attended other women at home and in the hospital. I agree with you, birth is scary. Life is also scary. It's hard when our perspective gets whacked like that...but in the end (easy for me to say, 3 years later,) I truly believe that "birth is as safe as life gets."

You'll do fine, Amila. You'll do whatever you need to do, and it will be the right thing.

My advice for preparing for your upcoming birth is to go with the research, and when that fails, go with your gut.

[Alenushka]

C-section is not a big deal as dead baby or a dead mother. Nothing is more traumatic than this to the family. I am sure in retrospect the OP's friend would rather have a trauma of c-secion that that of the child's burial.

Originally Posted by Arete 

I don't mean to go nuts here, and Kanna makes a number of good points, but I really have got to say this idea of a cesarean as not a big deal makes me very angry.  It IS a big deal.  I am well aware that some are necessary (I truly believe mine was), but it is a BIG deal.  How long it takes to perform is not the point at all.  Recovery time isn't the main point either (though if you get an infected scar like my sister-in-law did that sure makes it worse).  The point is the trauma of the experience itself.  If Amila wants a homebirth, and she's still motivated enough to go for it after what happened to her friend, it's probably because she really, really does NOT want to give birth (if you can call it that--I don't) hooked up to beeping machines, dead from the waist down, strapped to a hard metal table in an ice-cold room, surrounded by glaring lights and unfamiliar voices, while some total stranger digs around in her uterus through a hole he's just sliced in her belly.  I've had other surgeries and they weren't like this.  It's a thing unto itself, and I have spent the last year trying to climb out of the pit of PTSD it threw me into.