Is anyone else disturbed by this?

[angelandmisha]

I wasn't sure what forum to put this in, hopefully this one is appropriate.

I've begun to be very disturbed by a recurring theme I've noticed in children's movies and am wondering what you all think about it. It seems that every kids' movie has a plot line that features the main character becoming separated from their parents/family/group and then having to rely on strangers(possibly people with whom he'd never normally associate) to make it through the rest of the events in the movie, sometimes returning home, sometimes not. I'm mainly thinking of movies for young children(think animated, Disney/Pixar) as I have a three year old.

Has anyone else noticed this? What do you make of it? Are you disturbed by it? Thanks for input

[Tjej]

What bothers me more is the disrespectful attitudes of characters in many movies and TV shows.

I think the lost theme has been going on for decades - Bambi comes to mind immediately. If you think about it, kids movies have pretty harsh plots.

Tjej

[Viola]

Most children's books seem to involve children who are orphaned or otherwise separated from their parents so that they have a scope for the big adventures they are going to have. I'm 43, and that was the complaint I have about a lot of the books I read as a kid. It was one of the reasons I didn't want to read the Harry Potter books 11 years ago. Oh great, another kid, orphaned and mistreated by his guardians.

I read the Little House series over and over again, one of the few series I read that had a strong family unit. I guess some other books did, but a lot involved children on their own. So it doesn't really surprise me that the same happens in movies.

[CrazyCatLady]

I don't like the theme, but it's certainly nothing new. Stories like that have been around for a very long time. I think because way back when it wasn't all that unusual to lose a parent while you were still young. It was also before stranger danger happened.

Luckily for me my six year old hates movies, so I haven't had to deal with any of this kind of thing yet. I assume it could be a good way to get discussions going about sensitive topics?

[ollyoxenfree]

If you review literature and movies extending back as far as you can into history, I think you'll find that it's a common situation. There is nothing new about fictional children separated from their parents, through death or unfortunate absence...

Fairy tales - Snow White, The Little Mermaid, Hansel and Gretel, Beauty and the Beast etc.
A Little Princess
Alice in Wonderland
The Wizard of Oz
Heidi
Oliver Twist

Even in stories like Winnie the Pooh, the parents are absent. It's difficult to have adventures with Mom and Dad present. Narratives require a conflict to be introduced and (usually) resolved. Parents usually prevent conflict or resolve it for their children. It's convenient for authors to dispose of parents in order to carry on with the story they want to tell.

[angelandmisha]

So I realize it's not a new theme, I was just wondering if anyone is bothered by it. But it sounds like mostly you just view it as a convenient story telling device?

[WindyCityMom]

Internally it bugs me. I don't like the whole separation thing.. but for them it is an intriguing/touching plot that rakes in the $$$.

We don't do Disney though For other reasons.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by angelandmisha

So I realize it's not a new theme, I was just wondering if anyone is bothered by it. But it sounds like mostly you just view it as a convenient story telling device?

I don't recall being disturbed by these kinds of plot situations when I was child, other than within the context of the story e.g. I was desperately unhappy for Sara Crewe in The Little Princess, who wouldn't cry for Jane Eyre at the terrible boarding school, etc. Since most children's stories are resolved with a happy ending, I think I learned early to trust that the author would work things out fairly satisfactorily eg. Anne was a plucky orphan who found a wonderful new home at Green Gables. My own children weren't upset either - again, I think they trusted the storytelling process.

I know it is very disturbing to some children, and thus to their parents. There are a few old threads from parents looking for gentle stories for their sensitive children. In case you are looking for suggestions you can do a search. I suspect you will find more book threads than movies.

There is a saying that there are 2 basic stories in Western literature - someone goes on a journey or a stranger comes to town. For children, both of these plots are often easier to tell if parents aren't along for the ride, unless the parents themselves offer something to the narrative.

[ollyoxenfree]

A further thought:

Developmentally, the most important thing for children is the process of becoming independent. Since it's a universal, many (most?) narratives will reflect this theme to some degree. It's helpful to provide children with opportunities to work through this experience vicariously. Of course, some stories will provide better examples, role models, and guidance than others. And some stories are just better than others.

[philomom]

Disney is notorious for kids going mom-less. I hate it. The only good mom is in Treasure Planet.

But yes, I also hate the obnoxious, rude kids in Tv thing and I did not let my littles watch crap like that.

[carlylovesthesims2]

Originally Posted by philomom

Disney is notorious for kids going mom-less. I hate it. The only good mom is in Treasure Planet.

But yes, I also hate the obnoxious, rude kids in Tv thing and I did not let my littles watch crap like that.

the reason for disney not having mums in movies especally the early ones is walt disneys mum died when he was a little boy hence the theme of bambi etc being without a mum i have walt disneys auto bio

[lach]

That's the basic premise of just about any children's tale or story or book ever told or written. There is a lot of literature about it out there.

The plot of most children's books is that kids have an adventure and face some sort of serious obstacle and figure something out on their own. To do this, they need separation from their parents. Otherwise, the parents would fix (or at least provide a lot of help fixing) the situation, as a good parent would when their child is faced with a serious obstacle. And that wouldn't be a very interesting story.

So, no, it doesn't bother me at all. That's the sorts of stories most kids are drawn to, and it's good for them to imagine themselves as independent problem-solvers. Children practice separation by imagining it, and stories provide an image-rich environment in which they can explore emotions and fantasies freely.

What sort of confuses me is people who think that Disney invented this. I'm hard pressed to think of a single traditional fairy tale or children's novel written well before Disney that doesn't involve the children being orphaned, running away, shipped off to the neglectful uncle who lets them roam free for the summer, and so forth.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by carlylovesthesims2

the reason for disney not having mums in movies especally the early ones is walt disneys mum died when he was a little boy hence the theme of bambi etc being without a mum i have walt disneys auto bio

But Walt has been gone some years and Mulan is the only character with a mom besides Jim of Treasure Planet... unless I've missed something.

[odenata]

Originally Posted by philomom

But Walt has been gone some years and Mulan is the only character with a mom besides Jim of Treasure Planet... unless I've missed something.

The mom lives in The Lion King - it's the father that dies in that one. The Princess and the Frog has a mom, I think. The pups in 101 Dalmations have both a mom and dad.

If you include Pixar things, there's a mom in The Incredibles and Toy Story.

At any rate, the theme of being lost/on adventure alone doesn't bother me. When I was a kid, I liked to picture myself as the protagonist of my own adventures and I liked stories like these. Parents are safe and comforting, thigns that don't really lend themselves to excitement and adventure.

[angelandmisha]

I'm not thinking that Disney invented this storytelling device, I was just using their films as an example, starting point because that's what first got me started thinking about it. But then, as you all have pointed out, almost every kids' story shares this device. I was thinking it would be nice to see an example of a family working together to solve a problem or have an adventure, to see an example of being able to count on your parents for help. But it seems the general consensus is that it's just a more interesting story without parents.

[lach]

Originally Posted by angelandmisha

I'm not thinking that Disney invented this storytelling device, I was just using their films as an example, starting point because that's what first got me started thinking about it. But then, as you all have pointed out, almost every kids' story shares this device. I was thinking it would be nice to see an example of a family working together to solve a problem or have an adventure, to see an example of being able to count on your parents for help. But it seems the general consensus is that it's just a more interesting story without parents.

Keep in mind that most of these stories are written for children older than yours and mine I think that the idea that books and movies can be for very young children is very, very new. When we were kids, there were no movies or TV for babies or toddlers... even Sesame Street was for 4-6 year olds. Alas, there is money (a lot of money... about $2 billion dollars a year) to be made in the under-3 market, and the people who design these shows obviously see no need to reinvent the wheel when coming up with storylines for their shows and movies.

But, at the same time, I don't think that it's entirely developmentally inappropriate. Toddlers and preschoolers enjoy being very independent, and they're so egocentric that they can take or leave parents at any particular moment. Many popular preschool characters have no parental presence, and it still works as a device to have the child figure out problems on his/her own. Others have a strong parental presence, but the device still involves other characters to guide the protagonist. I'm thinking of Sid the Science Kid, which is one of the very few kids shows that I like. He has a very strong family support system that reinforces the daily lessons, but the bulk of his learning still occurs when he ventures outside the home to discover things with his peers. I think that definitely appeals to preschoolers, who are very curious about the world outside their homes and who are just starting to be developmentally ready to form peer relationships.

The "age compression" issue, where young kids are now being exposed to things that were intended for much older kids, is something to keep in mind when watching movies and shows that weren't made in the past 5 years or so with the under 3 market in mind. Most Disney movies, most children's movies, most children's TV shows that were created before the 0-3 market became the largest media growth industry, are NOT designed for kids younger than school age or so. Whether it's appropriate for your child is definitely up to the individual child: some 3 year olds might be perfectly okay with Bambi, others might be scarred for life, and I have a feeling that most wouldn't have the faintest idea what was going on. I don't think that mine would! Bambi is kind of an extreme situation (imo... I, personally, am in the scarred-for-life camp. I've never seen it all the way through! And I didn't see it for the first time until I was someplace in elementary school and we had a VHS player), but the same is true of similar movies and media.

[LynnS6]

My kids, at least, are drawn to the stories where the parents have minimal roles or are absent. I think they get a real sense of empowerment when they read stories like that. Our son read every 120+ of the Boxcar Children (grandfather is minimally there, but really, he's just the deep pockets that funds their adventure), and dd has just finished reading every one of the blasted Rainbow Fairy books where the parents are also minimally there.

IMO, most 3 year olds are not ready for movies yet. I know I'm in a minority, but developmentally, they can't follow the full story arc and have trouble linking the scary climax with the resolution. Add to that the fact that my children in particular are quite sensitive to visual images, and we haven't done very many movies (and very few in theaters because my kids are sound sensitive too).

There are good books/movies where there is no separation. The movies we've done are:
Mary Poppins
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (both versions, one has a different name)
Cinderella
Cars
Veggie Tales Pirates Who Didn't Do Anything

Only Cinderella has death/separation from parent, and she's 'older'. And my kids didn't care for it all that much. We're not TV free, but so far, they haven't missed not seeing movies. Now that they're a bit older, we might add them in, but so far there hasn't been much out there that I want my kids to see.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by angelandmisha

I was thinking it would be nice to see an example of a family working together to solve a problem or have an adventure, to see an example of being able to count on your parents for help.

There are some stories like this. Upthread, someone mentioned Little House on the Prairie. Swiss Family Robinson comes to mind. The Moomintroll books reflect a strong family unit, although not exactly human! The Wheel on the School by Meindert deJong, an old Newbery award-winner, is a charming little story that shows an entire village coming together. Similarly The Twenty One Balloons by William Pene duBois, another Newbery winner has families working together, albeit the focus is on the protagonist, an unmarried, childless adventure-seeker. Cheaper by the Dozen (the original book by Galbraith) wasn't intended for children, but many enjoy it.

I admit, I have an easier time thinking of books, rather than movies or t.v. shows. Many of these have been adapted for the screen though.

[lach]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

IMO, most 3 year olds are not ready for movies yet. I know I'm in a minority, but developmentally, they can't follow the full story arc and have trouble linking the scary climax with the resolution. Add to that the fact that my children in particular are quite sensitive to visual images, and we haven't done very many movies (and very few in theaters because my kids are sound sensitive too).

I agree with you. I can't remember when they can start following storylines at all (I used to know this... I think it's around 3), but I imagine that it takes a while beyond that for them to be able to keep track of much of anything for an hour and a half. Today my DD told me about "this morning" when we saw the geese on her way to preschool... that happened last spring! Time is a funny thing when you're 3.

I'm not adverse to screen time, but I do try to keep in mind that she's not really getting much story out of it. She likes the moving images, mostly. And that's okay, and it has its place. Later today, DS's speech therapist is coming and the easiest way to keep her out of the way for an hour is to put on a movie. I've even taken her to a movie theater twice: we saw "Babies" and a version of The Nutcracker last Christmas. The movies that she watches involve a lot of dancing, babies, or puppies and not a whole lot of storyline.

[angelandmisha]

I certainly appreciate all the responses. I'm most bothered by movies where there is a traumatic separation from the parents and from that became curious what it was all about and why I couldn't think of a single movie where that didn't happen. We really have only watched Cars, which he adores. And even in that movie there is separation. I guess the troubling aspect to me is the imposed separation, I think if the protagonist wants to set out on an adventure, that's fine, it's just the traumatic nature of the separation that I have found disturbing. And yes, maybe I'm thinking about it in terms of my young child and may not be so bothered by it as he is older, but I just can't shake the curiosity about why. And I totally understand the age-old, global nature of the theme- I have a degree in English and a minor in anthropology. But, perhaps because of that I know that fairy tales, folk tales, myths, etc. have a function in a society and are designed and retold to transmit some sort of information about the group. And I keep wondering, what are these stories saying to our children? I guess that's my real question. What message is being conveyed here? And before we just start watching and trusting movies to be entertainment I thought I'd explore this more. So I'm very happy to read so many responses!

And thank you for suggestions of stories which either feature parents more prominently or don't require a traumatic separation to get the story started. I'll check them out.