Update Post 22! Don't know where to start to find help for my sweet, spirited but very Quirky kid

[junipermuse]

DD is 3.5. She has always seemed very bright (very verbal, curious, and precocious) and very spirited, but I'm starting to feel like there is more going on but I'm not really sure what and I don't know how to find help or guidance.

Here are some examples of challenges and quirks

Incredibly single-minded. I have never met a child with persistence like her. She can tantrum for over an hour and not give up. Once when she was little (1.5-2) we took her to an open house and she saw a toy that she liked and wanted to take it home we said no and explained why and left. On the way home she fell asleep in the car, she slept for an hour and a half and when she woke up she immediately asked to go back to the house and resumed tantruming like the nap had not even occurred. You can not ever redirect her when as a form of discipline because she is much too focused on her desire.

Seems to have control issues. Everything has to be her way. She has to choose which car seat she sits in, and she has to be the first one out of the car (before her brother) or she completely melts down. Very oppositional. Never complies with a request on the first request. Often outright refusal. She wants to do things herself, but you give her the chance and she refuses, so you start to do it for her and she screams and says she'll do it herself, so you give her another chance and then she refuses again.

I feel like she tries to make everything difficult. She hops in the car and then immediately tries to lock the car door so I can't buckle her in. When her brother was still in a bucket seat she would climb into his seat and refuse to move into her own seat (of course I would be holding her brother and couldn't easily move her into her seat)

We have lots of tantrums daily. She gets upset very easily

Seems to have sensory seeking behavior. Would happily be pushed in a swing for hours. Lacks personal boundaries, always in other peoples space. Needs to have clothes and shoes very very tight. Also if her hair is in a ponytail she needs me to tighten it every 5 seconds practically

Often hyper. Lacks impulse control. I can not get her to leave her brother alone. She touches him, lays on him, squeezes him, headlocks him constantly. She runs around in circles, climbs on everything, jumps on the couch. I try to hold her on my lap to calm her and she screams and squirms to get away. Cries if she has to wait in line.

Had difficulty at her previous preschool with behavior and her father and I were called in for a conference. She was having difficulty with following directions. Also she would frequently get sent to the office because she was having tantrums.

I was contacted by her ballet teacher also because they felt she was disruptive in class. Refusal to follow directions, talking out of turn, constantly needing to take a break from the group and "rest"

Lots of clothing issues and "rules" about dressing. No hoods, no pockets, dresses only, the have to be long etc. Also when she's stressed it seems to manifest itself in clothing issues. Often if she tries to change her clothes multiple times a day it's a sign that she's feeling really stressed out.

In the six months before potty-training she had major issues with BM. She wasn't truly constipated, though her poops were somewhat firm. Basically she couldn't stand the sensation of pooping and she would scream and cry and try to hold it in. I think it made her feel out of control. For six months we had to deal with crying about poop almost everyday.

She has a lot of fixations. The letter P, the color pink, the number 3. She has a weird compulsion with checking people's fingers and toes for "mud". She was doing it a lot for awhile then stopped and now its back.

An aversion to water. As a baby the only way she'd go in the pool or bath is if I nursed her in the water. She hates to have her hair washed. As a baby and toddler she'd scream if I took a shower, it's like she was upset at the thought of water falling on my head. She hates washing her hands, she'll go out of her way not to touch anything in a public restroom so that I won't make her wash her hands. Refuses to walk on ground that is wet. Not just refusing to walk through puddles but wet ground all together because she doesn't want the bottom of her shoes wet (not that she could feel it but that she would know that they were wet)

Hates loud noises. Had a total meltdown during the fireworks show at the county fair. Hates the sound of toilets flushing (particularly automatic flushing toilets because then she doesn't have any control) and loud hand dryers really freak her out. She badly wanted to play with some kids at the park but she was bothered by how loud she felt they were, so she asked them if they would play quieter so she could play with them too.

Has had lots of sleep issues and eating issues. Slow to take to solids. Difficulty falling asleep and difficulty staying asleep. Her doctor had us give her melatonin for a long time. Sleeping is improving but her eating seems to get pickier.

She just exhausts me. I use tv as a babysitter so I can get a break. I'm overwhelmed because it feels like everything is a battle. The second she starts getting upset about her shirt coming untucked or her ponytails needing to be tightened or she won't walk through a wet patch on the ground, I start getting upset and angry because I'm so tired of fighting these battles constantly.

So the things I'm concerned about are ADHD (I have it so it's on my radar), SPD, or some kind of anxiety (especially because a lot of these things like the control issues and fixations seem to get worse when she's stressed). What do you all think? Is this just normal "spirited" child behavior or could there be something else going on? How do I figure it out and find help for her and all of us? I just want life to be a bit easier and a bit more peaceful.

[Linda on the move]

A lot (but not all) of what you describe is sensory related. I recommend the book The Out of Sync Child as a place to start learning about and dealing with it. My DD has a lot of sensory issues and she does much better overall when she gets the right kind of sensory input, which is sometimes referred to as a "sensory diet." The right sensory diet is different for different kids, but starting to figure that out will help your DD to be happier and easier to live with.

I also really like the book Quirky Kids by Klass. It's a more general book about raising a child who is a little different and covers ADD, Asperger's, sensory issues, etc. It's a wonderful book for any parent who is trying to figure out their kid.

[Natalie12]

Sounds very much like my daughter! I consider spirited. It doesn't mean a nice way for describing kids with ADHD. Spirited kids just feel things very strongly, and man, can they be stubborn.

I realize that you are short on time, but try reading Parenting Your Spirited Child. It's been great for me.

You can do this!

[terra-pip]

All the books mentioned here as well as Dr Sears book about "spirited" children helped me all those years ago when we first started worrying about our oldest. Also The Myth of the ADD Child.

From your description alone I can see so many similarities there with my oldest. Besides research mama, your next step ought to likely be an occupational therapy evaluation or discussion with your doc.

The book The Out of Sync Child has Fun is full of things you can do at home to help with some sensory issues. I also like the book Just Take One Bite. Don't let picky eating slide, it can grow into a real problem if sensory issues are to blame and not just toddler contrariness.

[Emmeline II]

I would try a magnesium supplement, that helped take the edge of ds' behavior.

Your dd has several characteristics that ds had though she seems to have more sensory issues. I'd get an OT evaluation and get on the list for a developmental ped.

The OT report was helpful to have to give to his teacher, therapist, and psych.

Quoting myself in another thread:

We tried a family therapist for awhile and pretty much just figured out that our discipline style did not really impact his behavior; though too lenient or strict made it worse, the middle ground did not make it better, just not worse. Ds appears to have little intrinsic motivation to "do the right thing" and lacks in empathy; though these seem to have improved with medication.

Kindergarten was hell; I'll pm you the bullet list I took to the family doctor for a referral to a developmental pediatrician. Though ds' behavior at home improved immensely after a couple months of school.

So, we went to the family therapist from February to May. In June I took my bullet list to the family doctor who diagnosed ADHD/ODD on the referral form; I sent the referral form to the local children's hospital that has a clinic with a developmental pediatrician--once an appointment is had it is a full day of interdisciplinary consults and evaluations.

While waiting on the DP we had an evaluation with an occupational therapist in July; this report was very useful in communicating what ds is like, to his teacher, therapist, and psychiatrist. The OT noted his sensory issues but also said she say signs of Asperger's but she is not qualified to diagnose that.

In August ds freaked us out by playing with matches in a closed bathroom and we finally took him to a child psychiatrist. The psychiatrist diagnosed ADHD but is not ready to diagnose Asperger's yet; she also recommended "psychotherapy"; I found that the therapist she recommended does CBT and we're hoping that ds will benefit more from her than the last therapist, though she did mention how "unique" ds is in his issues. Ds is now taking Concerta.

Ds school experience this year is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than last year. Though he is still exhibiting the same "quirks," he is now redirectable. His new (charter) school is much smaller, he has a more understanding/flexable teacher and a special ed person who actually sees ds issues as something to be addressed with actions other than behavior charts. Ds is also gifted which complicated things with his last school (which is primarily concerned with working on grade level, anything beyond that they didn't care).

Edited by Emmeline II - 11/16/10 at 1:45pm

[kathteach]

My younger ds sounds very much liike your daughter and was evaluated. I was told he was delayed in social/emotional self-regulation and had sensory issues. His child development therapist gave me some good strategies and the OT helps a lot.

Can you get an evaluation? It was hard to hear for me, but helped me know specifically which ways I could work with DS. It also helped me deal with the behaviors just knowing he actually did have a diagnosis and it wasn't my parenting.

[RiverTam]

You might want to take a look at some information about gifted toddlers and gifted girls.

For an all around useful source on quirky kids and different problems, I really like The Mislabeled Child by Fernette Eide and Brock Eide. It includes a section on giftedness, as well as sections on ADHD and sensory integration disorder.

[junipermuse]

Okay thanks everyone. I definitely think that there are some sensory issues going on and I am familiar with the out of sync child book. I'm a former preschool teacher and have had several kids with SPD in my classes over the years and have also done inservices with an OT. I just don't know how to go about getting an evaluation. Do I call our insurance company first? Do I just start calling OTs? Am I better off going through the school district or through our insurance? Should I also try to get seen by a Dev. Ped at the same time or should I just start with an OT evaluation. I don't want to go through our regular ped because I've tried to bring stuff up in the past and she hasn't really taken me seriously.

RiverTam- I definitely think some stuff relates to her possibly being gifted. Both her dad and I were tested as having pretty high IQ's (mine was 156 and her dad's was much higher, but I don't remember exactly what it was). We also both were placed in schools/classes for gifted students as kids. She learned to talk early and had a vocabulary of close to 1000 words before her 2nd birthday. She also learned all the letters and sounds. At two she memorized songs (like taylor swift's Love Story) and could sing the whole thing from beginning to end. She isn't particularly academically inclined, but she has an unbelievable memory and a tendency to ask a lot of in depth questions. When she was taking ballet and was having problems with being disruptive the teacher tried to make it sound like she was worried dd wasn't getting anything out of it, but dd was obsessed with ballet and had a huge vocabulary for the positions and steps and would demonstrate them to people. I guess my question is what resources are there for me to find out more about this and how do I know if giftedness is a factor? And if it is how do I find help as far as making our lives smoother and more manageable?

Emmeline II Thanks for the suggestion of the mag supplement, I will definitely try that. I really appreciate you sharing your experience with your ds. As far as finding a dev ped, how do I go about doing that? what do I say when I call to get an appointment? Is it likely to find someone who takes insurance or no?

Natalie12- I definitely think some of the issue is being spirited, I'm just not sure if she is just spirited or spirited plus other issues going on as well. I have a copy of raising your spirited child and I have read some. For the parts I've read though I remember feeling like it (the suggestions) wasn't enough. I don't know if that makes sense. I didn't mean to imply that it was just a nice way of saying ADHD. I figure sometimes a child is spirited and sometimes they might be spirited but that might be exacerbated by other issues as well.

Linda on the move - it's interesting that you mentioned the book Quirky kids because I actually use to have the book. It was given to me by my therapist (who I saw because of my ADHD). He gave it to me back when I was a teacher and i was struggling with a student in my class. Unfortunately I have long since given it back and no longer see that therapist (we've moved 400 miles away) maybe I'll go put it on my amazon list.

[junipermuse]

Picture of our day

I slept in today and she was up early with dh, but here's picture of our day so far (at least what I saw of it).
DD constantly manhandling ds while dh and I get ready. Dh is dressed and ready to go, but sitting on the bed so dd pulls of his socks off to check for "mud" despite being asked not to. I ask her to get dressed so we can walk up to the bakery to get coffee (for me) and a croissant (for her) she says she wants to stay in her nightgown, but when I say it's time to go she decides she wants to put clothes on. She prefers to wear a pair of pants that's two sizes to small and even then she wants me to tighten the elastic in the waist. She refuses to wear shoes (even when she agrees to wear shoes she takes them off right away or else I'm constantly asked to tighten them until I'm nearly batty, and then I can never find them when we need to put them back on). So I let her go shoeless. I go to get the stroller and she says no she wants to drive. This is a walk that we take almost every single morning and almost every morning we have this argument that she wants to drive and I have to say no we're walking. So she finally agrees to get in the stroller and she starts to get upset because I started to buckle her (I momentarily forgot she doesn't like to be buckled). Then she's upset that her shirt is coming untucked from her pants. As we're walking she starts to scream at me to stop. There are these lines surrounding the driveways of the skateboard park and one time when she was running up ahead of me instead of riding in the stroller, I showed her the lines and told her she needed to stop at them and wait for me. Well now she wants me to stop at every single set of these lines both before the driveway and after and she gets really upset if she notices I didn't stop. I've tried explaining that its only for little girls and not for mamas/strollers because I can see better if there are any cars coming. I try to explain that you only have to stop before the driveway not after (and she usually has a pretty good understanding of prepositions) no matter what she still insists I stop at every single one of these sets of lines. We go to store and get her a crossiant. She gets upset if I say butter croissant instead of regular croissant even though I've explained that they're two different names for the same thing. I think she even understands that but she still doesn't want me to say "butter croissant". Also one day she said she was still hungry and so I bought her one of these really tiny mini-baguettes in addition to her croissant and now every day she wants to have one in addition to her croissant and if say they don't have any today she won't believe me unless I ask if they have any (similarly if she wants me to buy her something at a store, but I say no, she still has to go ask the store clerk how much it costs. she won't believe me that i can read the price right on the tag, we have to ask the store clerk how much it costs). We walk home and since my dad was visiting I tried to sit in the family room and talk to him, but she interrupts me like every other sentence. My dad left and we left to go meet some friends at the park. She was happy and excited to be going to the park, but as we approached the gate she panicked refused to come in (this happens at preschool a lot even though she has begged all morning to go, she'll stop at the door and refuse to enter once we arrive). When I carried her in she started to cry and scramble to get away from me. Then I sat her down on the bench next to me and she tried to push her brother out of my lap so she could sit there and started crying and begging to go home. She also started begging to be pushed on the baby swing. I hate pushing her on the swing because once I start she never wants to stop and when I first arrive I want to just sit and relax and talk to the other mommies for a little while before I have to push her. I think a lot of this is probably my issue more than hers, but I'm so tired of pushing her on the swing I'd be happy to never do it again. When she insists on me doing it, it takes all the fun out of taking the kids to the park. Soon after this she kept trying to check my friend's baby's fingers for "mud" and I had to keep telling her that the baby didn't like it (the baby kept trying to pull her hands away from dd). When my friend needed to leave to go pick her ds up from preschool, my dd decided she wanted to leave too so we left and I took her to the store so we could get some food for lunch. She didn't have any shoes so I told her she'd have to ride in the cart. I explained that she'd need to ride in the big part so ds could ride in the little part (he needs the seat belt because he's still so young, but he's heavy and I'd rather not carry him on my back). She was very upset by this (she said she wanted to sit in the little part) and threw a huge fit. I just kept moving her along anyway, but she cried, screamed and tantrumed almost the whole shopping trip. When I put yogurt into the cart (the same brand we buy almost every week) she started yelling at me that she didn't want white yogurt, she wanted pink yogurt (sometimes as a special treat I buy strawberry kefir for her, but not usually because it has a lot of sugar) finally we finished and left. She ended up falling asleep in the car.

Anyway every day feels like some variation on this theme.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by junipermuse

Should I also try to get seen by a Dev. Ped at the same time or should I just start with an OT evaluation. I don't want to go through our regular ped because I've tried to bring stuff up in the past and she hasn't really taken me seriously....As far as finding a dev ped, how do I go about doing that? what do I say when I call to get an appointment? Is it likely to find someone who takes insurance or no?

Developmental ped's tend to have long waiting lists (9-12mo) so I would get on the wait list and perhaps try an OT in the meantime. We are going to see a DP through a special clinic at a hospital that only takes children on referral. I took a long bullet list of ds's problems at school to the family doctor who signed the referral form. If you have an HMO I expect you would need a referral, with a PPO probably not you'd just have to try to pick one in your plan.

You could fill out the checklist below and use it to help explain your dd.
Sensory Processing Disorder Checklist

[RiverTam]

I guess my question is what resources are there for me to find out more about this and how do I know if giftedness is a factor? And if it is how do I find help as far as making our lives smoother and more manageable?

I'd start with reading The Mislabeled Child because it lays out the down-sides, as well as the upsides of giftedness pretty well, as well as giving over-views of other kid problems. The Eides work with a lot of 2E kids and are really champions of gifted kids with learning disabilities or other special needs. The Mislabeled Child has a lot of suggestions on how to make things run more smoothly for children.

Resources:
1) The Mislabeled Child:
http://www.amazon.com/Mislabeled-Chi...4482143&sr=1-1


2) Barbara Kerr's book is great: Smart Girls
http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Girls-Ps.../dp/091070726X

2) Hoagies has a list of 2E resources:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/twice_exceptional.htm

3) Twice Exceptional Newsletter:
http://www.2enewsletter.com/

4) The Eides also have a developmental pediatrics clinic and a blog.

http://www.neurolearning.com/clinic.htm
and
http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/

[nayma]

how are her social skills? her relationship with you? i ask because she sounds a lot like my dd (4), and my dd is diagnosed with asperger's syndrome. i am not trying to imply in any way that your dd does, as well - just trying to get more info, and maybe be able to help.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by RiverTam

I guess my question is what resources are there for me to find out more about this and how do I know if giftedness is a factor? And if it is how do I find help as far as making our lives smoother and more manageable?

I'd start with reading The Mislabeled Child because it lays out the down-sides, as well as the upsides of giftedness pretty well, as well as giving over-views of other kid problems. The Eides work with a lot of 2E kids and are really champions of gifted kids with learning disabilities or other special needs. The Mislabeled Child has a lot of suggestions on how to make things run more smoothly for children.

Resources:
1) The Mislabeled Child:
http://www.amazon.com/Mislabeled-Chi...4482143&sr=1-1


2) Barbara Kerr's book is great: Smart Girls
http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Girls-Ps.../dp/091070726X

2) Hoagies has a list of 2E resources:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/twice_exceptional.htm

3) Twice Exceptional Newsletter:
http://www.2enewsletter.com/

4) The Eides also have a developmental pediatrics clinic and a blog.

http://www.neurolearning.com/clinic.htm
and
http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/

This is a great list. I'd also recommend James T Webb's Misdiagnosis book, here with preview:
http://books.google.com/books?id=NQr...page&q&f=false

Here are some SPD books with previews:
http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks...2e0df67dbfff88

ETA: I would recommend starting with Misdiagnosis as it's more readable when you're new to all this - and it's overwhelming at first!

I also really like this one, and it's endorsed by the Eides :
http://books.google.com/books?id=kPt...page&q&f=false

[spring978]

Originally Posted by junipermuse

I slept in today and she was up early with dh, but here's picture of our day so far (at least what I saw of it).
DD constantly manhandling ds while dh and I get ready. Dh is dressed and ready to go, but sitting on the bed so dd pulls of his socks off to check for "mud" despite being asked not to. I ask her to get dressed so we can walk up to the bakery to get coffee (for me) and a croissant (for her) she says she wants to stay in her nightgown, but when I say it's time to go she decides she wants to put clothes on. She prefers to wear a pair of pants that's two sizes to small and even then she wants me to tighten the elastic in the waist. She refuses to wear shoes (even when she agrees to wear shoes she takes them off right away or else I'm constantly asked to tighten them until I'm nearly batty, and then I can never find them when we need to put them back on). So I let her go shoeless. I go to get the stroller and she says no she wants to drive. This is a walk that we take almost every single morning and almost every morning we have this argument that she wants to drive and I have to say no we're walking. So she finally agrees to get in the stroller and she starts to get upset because I started to buckle her (I momentarily forgot she doesn't like to be buckled). Then she's upset that her shirt is coming untucked from her pants. As we're walking she starts to scream at me to stop. There are these lines surrounding the driveways of the skateboard park and one time when she was running up ahead of me instead of riding in the stroller, I showed her the lines and told her she needed to stop at them and wait for me. Well now she wants me to stop at every single set of these lines both before the driveway and after and she gets really upset if she notices I didn't stop. I've tried explaining that its only for little girls and not for mamas/strollers because I can see better if there are any cars coming. I try to explain that you only have to stop before the driveway not after (and she usually has a pretty good understanding of prepositions) no matter what she still insists I stop at every single one of these sets of lines. We go to store and get her a crossiant. She gets upset if I say butter croissant instead of regular croissant even though I've explained that they're two different names for the same thing. I think she even understands that but she still doesn't want me to say "butter croissant". Also one day she said she was still hungry and so I bought her one of these really tiny mini-baguettes in addition to her croissant and now every day she wants to have one in addition to her croissant and if say they don't have any today she won't believe me unless I ask if they have any (similarly if she wants me to buy her something at a store, but I say no, she still has to go ask the store clerk how much it costs. she won't believe me that i can read the price right on the tag, we have to ask the store clerk how much it costs). We walk home and since my dad was visiting I tried to sit in the family room and talk to him, but she interrupts me like every other sentence. My dad left and we left to go meet some friends at the park. She was happy and excited to be going to the park, but as we approached the gate she panicked refused to come in (this happens at preschool a lot even though she has begged all morning to go, she'll stop at the door and refuse to enter once we arrive). When I carried her in she started to cry and scramble to get away from me. Then I sat her down on the bench next to me and she tried to push her brother out of my lap so she could sit there and started crying and begging to go home. She also started begging to be pushed on the baby swing. I hate pushing her on the swing because once I start she never wants to stop and when I first arrive I want to just sit and relax and talk to the other mommies for a little while before I have to push her. I think a lot of this is probably my issue more than hers, but I'm so tired of pushing her on the swing I'd be happy to never do it again. When she insists on me doing it, it takes all the fun out of taking the kids to the park. Soon after this she kept trying to check my friend's baby's fingers for "mud" and I had to keep telling her that the baby didn't like it (the baby kept trying to pull her hands away from dd). When my friend needed to leave to go pick her ds up from preschool, my dd decided she wanted to leave too so we left and I took her to the store so we could get some food for lunch. She didn't have any shoes so I told her she'd have to ride in the cart. I explained that she'd need to ride in the big part so ds could ride in the little part (he needs the seat belt because he's still so young, but he's heavy and I'd rather not carry him on my back). She was very upset by this (she said she wanted to sit in the little part) and threw a huge fit. I just kept moving her along anyway, but she cried, screamed and tantrumed almost the whole shopping trip. When I put yogurt into the cart (the same brand we buy almost every week) she started yelling at me that she didn't want white yogurt, she wanted pink yogurt (sometimes as a special treat I buy strawberry kefir for her, but not usually because it has a lot of sugar) finally we finished and left. She ended up falling asleep in the car.

Anyway every day feels like some variation on this theme.

minus the falling asleep part you just described a day in my life. ((hugs)) to you Mamma

[junipermuse]

Originally Posted by nayma

how are her social skills? her relationship with you? i ask because she sounds a lot like my dd (4), and my dd is diagnosed with asperger's syndrome. i am not trying to imply in any way that your dd does, as well - just trying to get more info, and maybe be able to help.

My sister was diagnosed with pdd-nos as a child and I have lots of experience babysitting and working as a teacher with kids who are on the spectrum, so it's definitely been on my radar. However I'm not sure that she fits the criteria, but its hard to judge her objectively since I'm her mama.Her social skills are very hit and miss. She has always (since 18 mos or so) had a keen ability to read my emotions. She doesn't know the name for every nuanced emotion, but she would ask based on facial expression or tone of voice, if I was angry, scared, or happy and she usually had it right. She tends to try to read my facial expressions for emotion even when I'm not totally aware of how I'm feeling. She sometimes though has trouble recognizing that babies are people with emotions (so in that way she does lack empathy) so she's slower to pick up on her baby brother's signals that he doesn't like what she's doing to him. But I also think that sometimes its her lack of impulse control and her desire to do something that overrides her concern for other people's feelings. At school she seems to make friends quite easily. She is very social and likes to play with a variety of different children. She never forgets a "friend" and talks about them all frequently. She has moments of shyness which can come on at weird or unexpected times, but other times she's very self-assured. She's had a recent interest in money and the power of buying things. She saved up for a DVD she wanted and she took care of the transaction herself. She talked clearly and calmly to the clerk, gave him the money, waited for her change, let him talk, and then said "thank you" as we left. It seemed very mature to me. My sister on the other hand, although she had a large vocabulary, couldn't do that kind of transaction or even order food at a restaurant until she was a teenager.

As far as her relationship with me, it can be very strong, but we also struggle. She has always been very attached to me. At 3 weeks old she began to recognize me over any other caregiver (my mom, her dad, etc) and she would scream if I handed her off to anyone. If I took a shower, she cried the entire time, I couldn't set her down at all. Now she is definitely past this now. She has a lot of really strong relationships with family and friends. Her persistence and her tantrums and difficult behavior have put strain on our relationship. I often feel like I haven't lived up to my ideals as a parent. I have resorted to using timeouts with her because I can't motivate her in other ways and she resists redirection. I have yelled so much more than I like to admit. She was so high needs as a baby that I actually joke that I suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder from living through her baby-hood. I feel guilty for feeling like I need to send her to school so I can have a break and also for getting so much joy out of being with her baby brother because he's so "easy." I wonder sometimes if she isn't attached to me enough and that's why she tries to push my buttons or refuses to comply with my requests. On the other hand one day she really wanted to eat a treat, but her dad had already said "no." Later that day she asked me and I said "yes", but then she admitted that her father had said "no" and that he would be mad. I said it was okay and that if he was going to be mad he could be mad at me not her. This really concerned her and she wouldn't eat the candy because she didn't want her dad to be mad at me. Sometimes she is so concerned that her dad or I might be feeling bad about something. Today she wanted me to call her dad at work to let him know I'd found something that had been missing that morning, because she thought he might be worried about it and she didn't want him to worry.

She definitely has no problem making eye contact when talking to people. She seeks out other children to play with. She is very gabby, and likes to tell people everything.

on the other hand here are some things that do seem to fit

A significant and encompassing preoccupation or obsession with one or two restricted topics, that is abnormal either in intensity, subject or focus (such as baseball statistics or the weather)

Seemingly inflexible adherence to specific routines or rituals that serve little purpose

A certain precociousness in learning to talk (e.g., “He talked before he could walk!”)

A fascination with letters and numbers


Also sometimes it seems like she's a little too quick to form relationships. From the first day of meeting someone she'll almost always want to hug them "goodbye" before leaving. Which strikes me as odd and I'm not sure if it's an example of her being very social or on the other hand not totally grasping social convention.

[junipermuse]

Update

So I called dd's pediatrician today and they recommended that I make an appointment with a dev ped. They gave me a list of people to call, so I'm going to do that and then I will also start calling OT's and see if we can get her in for an evaluation. I also called a good friend of mine today who has a son with SPD and also some other learning disabilities and I'm going to see if she has a copy of out of sync child or out of sync child has fun. I'm going to add the other books recommended here on to my amazon wishlist as well and hopefully start to do some reading. So I just wanted to let you all know where we are right now. I really appreciate all the input, and I'd love to hear more insight though if anyone else has any.

[junipermuse]

We got an appt. with a dev ped. It actually is only a week and a half away. Seems pretty good considering that some of the ones we called had six month waiting lists. I hope it doesn't mean this one isn't any good. We also have a tentative appt with an occupational therapist. I actually put calls in to a bunch of them and got calls back from 3. So how does one choose from just talking on the phone which one to see? I also need to call back the insurance company and figure out how much they'll reimburse for treatment through the OT. I was on the phone with them forever yesterday, but there seemed to be a lot of confusion. The said that they didn't have anyway of finding a dev. ped that was in network because they didn't have a category for it in the database. Also they apparently gave me authorization for mental health, but OT's are classified under physical therapy, so I think I have to get a separate authorization for that. Also it seems that all the OTs in the area that work with Sensory Processing stuff are not covered by our insurance. There are in network OTs but they seem to be for stuff like rehabilitation and stuff, so I'm thinking that if there is no in network provider for the services we need, then we should be able to get an out of network provider reimbursed to us at in-network rates right? Does anyone have any experience with dealing with insurance companies on this sort of thing. I'm feeling way overwhelmed, and I don't want my husband to flip at the cost of all of this.

[Linda on the move]

I think it's great that you are getting her an eval, but I don't see red flags for ASD. For example:

Originally Posted by junipermuse

so she's slower to pick up on her baby brother's signals that he doesn't like what she's doing to him.

I don't think that younger sibs really count. I think that a lot of neuro typical kids really don't care if their sibs are actual humans or not.

At school she seems to make friends quite easily. She is very social and likes to play with a variety of different children. She never forgets a "friend" and talks about them all frequently.

This is the total opposite of my ASD child.

She talked clearly and calmly to the clerk, gave him the money, waited for her change, let him talk, and then said "thank you" as we left. It seemed very mature to me.

My ASD child (who is 2E and now 13) would struggle to do this.

She has a lot of really strong relationships with family and friends.

again, this is the opposite of what is typical for a ASD child.

I feel guilty for feeling like I need to send her to school so I can have a break and also for getting so much joy out of being with her baby brother because he's so "easy."

let it go. You can be fresher for her and have more quality interaction with her by having the break AND if gives her other adults and children to learn from.

[summer_time]

Please keep us updated! My son is 4.5 and is the same way, almost to a 'T.' I'm exhausted. We have an eval with the the school district on Nov. 3rd and I am going to push it hard with his pedi (she said he 'sounds like a 4-year-old in Jan when he had his well check.) All. day. long. I struggle to keep the lid on his behavior cause when he blows, he BLOWS. Like your DD, DS is very intelligent and has an astounding vocab. My DH and I both have Ed. degrees and this is eating our lunch.

One book that has helped some is:
http://www.amazon.com/Explosive-Chil...5017432&sr=1-1 There is also a DVD that goes with the book that is great.

[junipermuse]

Okay, well things are moving along. So far I have two appts scheduled with 2 different dev peds and two appts for OTs and I'm not sure if I should just pick now which ones we want to see or if we should go to all the appointments and then pick which ones we want to continue to see after we've met them all. What would you do?

Also I did check and we don't need a referral from our ped to see an OT. It's automatically covered. However they did say that no matter what if we see an out of network provider we have to pay out of network cost, even if there is no in-network provider that provides the services we need. Is that true? We live in CA. Does anyone have any information about this? I was sure that if they covered a certain service, but don't have an in-network provider that performed that service than we could apply for a waiver or something to consider our chosen provider in-network. Of course the customer service person for our insurance company was in India somewhere and it took forever for her to even understand what it was I was asking.