I'm still struggling about tetanus...

[TonyaW]

I really could use some discussion to help me sort this out. I hope I am not driving you all crazy because I have posted about this so much.

I have my son scheduled to receive his first vaccine (DT) next week at 3.5 years old. I also scheduled him to see the chiropractor the next day to boost his immune system. I am currently planning to give him vitamin C, lots of different probiotics and a homeopathic remedy for vaccines to help him detox and finally chlorella and zeolite to detox metals.

I was previously against vaccinating. I am still 100% comfortable with not vaccinating against other diseases besides Tetanus. I spent countless hours reading before I came to that very conscientious decision. Then my son was bitten by a cat on a farm which we visit. There was one puncture wound of which I don't know how deep it was and it did not bleed. I did proper wound care as best I could one hour later once I got home. I have been so overly anxious these last two weeks since the bite. The bite was not a serious bite so the TIG was not indicated. The wound wasn't a wound that I felt comfortable with but also it wasn't serious enough for TIG. I know people always say, you can just get the TIG for a serious wound. He did take a 5 day course of antibiotics for the first time ever. I still don't know if that was the right decision. Of course this turned out to be a middle of the road situation where the wound was not safe and that TIG wasn't reasonable either. His doctor recommended the DT shot but also said that he wasn't too concerned about getting tetanus from a cat bite. However, on the CDC's website a child got tetanus from a dog bite.

On the one hand, I don't ever want to feel anxious and worried like this again if he can get some level of protection from tetanus. On the other hand, I don't want to damage my sons immune or nervous system. I realize that those who are vaccinated can still get tetanus and that proper wound care is prudent. However, I feel like I would feel more relaxed but I am afraid I will regret my decision.

I know the statistics. I know the risks both ways. I am so torn! This feels like a no win situation for me and my son! I am still worried he could contract tetanus after the bite even though we are at the two week mark. I don't want to have to worry like this. However, even the CDC admits that tetanus efficacy has never been determined.

[alegna]

Tetanus is very hard for many people to come to terms with. I actually had to get comfortable with it FIRST as I am allergic/reactive to that vax, as was my grandmother, so I can not get comfortable giving it to my children.

Infection is much more likely from ANY wound than tetanus. It's MUCH more likely they will die from sepsis from infection in a wound, than from tetanus. The numbers are low. Lower in children. And from my research, it looks like they always were. If tetanus was easy to contract no pioneer children would have survived- they were all poked, stabbed, scratched, bitten, etc and then had regular exposure to horse poop. Without much knowledge of good wound care.

At the end of the day, for me, it came down to a minuscule risk that I was comfortable with. It's more likely that they will be struck by lightening and I don't keep them locked up when it rains.

good luck!

-Angela

[ammiga]

If the CDC can only report that one child contracted tetanus in all their years of collecting tetanus stats, that should give you a huge sense of relief! Think of how many people are bit or scratched by animals every single day.

[TonyaW]

Yes, I think it would give me a huge sense of relief if I knew for sure that it wasn't because they were vaccinated. How can I find out that information? If the rabies vaccine works then why wouldn't tetanus? I am not at all worried about the other diseases which we vaccinate for in the US, but there is not much you can do with tetanus once you get it without serious treatment, hospitalization and a serious risk of fatality.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by TonyaW

I really could use some discussion to help me sort this out. I hope I am not driving you all crazy because I have posted about this so much.

I have my son scheduled to receive his first vaccine (DT) next week at 3.5 years old. I also scheduled him to see the chiropractor the next day to boost his immune system. I am currently planning to give him vitamin C, lots of different probiotics and a homeopathic remedy for vaccines to help him detox and finally chlorella and zeolite to detox metals.

I was previously against vaccinating. I am still 100% comfortable with not vaccinating against other diseases besides Tetanus. I spent countless hours reading before I came to that very conscientious decision. Then my son was bitten by a cat on a farm which we visit. There was one puncture wound of which I don't know how deep it was and it did not bleed. I did proper wound care as best I could one hour later once I got home. I have been so overly anxious these last two weeks since the bite. The bite was not a serious bite so the TIG was not indicated. The wound wasn't a wound that I felt comfortable with but also it wasn't serious enough for TIG. I know people always say, you can just get the TIG for a serious wound. He did take a 5 day course of antibiotics for the first time ever. I still don't know if that was the right decision. Of course this turned out to be a middle of the road situation where the wound was not safe and that TIG wasn't reasonable either. His doctor recommended the DT shot but also said that he wasn't too concerned about getting tetanus from a cat bite. However, on the CDC's website a child got tetanus from a dog bite.
On the one hand, I don't ever want to feel anxious and worried like this again if he can get some level of protection from tetanus. On the other hand, I don't want to damage my sons immune or nervous system. I realize that those who are vaccinated can still get tetanus and that proper wound care is prudent. However, I feel like I would feel more relaxed but I am afraid I will regret my decision.

I know the statistics. I know the risks both ways. I am so torn! This feels like a no win situation for me and my son! I am still worried he could contract tetanus after the bite even though we are at the two week mark. I don't want to have to worry like this. However, even the CDC admits that tetanus efficacy has never been determined.

yes. did they mention on their site that the 14 yr old boy was also vaccinated within the previous 2 yrs before the bite? Also the decline in tetanus cases has little to do with the vaccine. It is discussed in this 1972 journal article. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5074684

Unfortunately there is no abstract, but you can get it through your library I would assume. It states that

the decline started before introduction of tetanus toxoid and has continued in the last decade during which time toxoid delivery has not improved significantly.

[carriebft]

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...tract/109/1/e2

http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/00053713.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/PREVIEW/MMWRHTML/ss5203a1.htm



If we didn't have the tetanus vaccine, there would probably be a lot of T cases in children under the age of 15. If you aren't vaccinated for tetanus, you are at higher risk for the disease. in addition, the disease is more serious for those not vaccinated.

I see one to two cases of animal bite tetanus per year looking at google scholar-- though some are insect.

I also am surprised at the number of auto/moped accidents resulting in tetanus-- there was a thread on this where even I laughed at the member being offered T for an auto accident but I guess it happens...

[carriebft]

yes that particular case was vaccinated and recovered, the big issue seemed to be that he did not seek medical care after the bite.

there in no doubt in my mind that the T vaccine does also mitigate the severity of the disease.

[TonyaW]

Originally Posted by carriebft

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...tract/109/1/e2

http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/00053713.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/PREVIEW/MMWRHTML/ss5203a1.htm



If we didn't have the tetanus vaccine, there would probably be a lot of T cases in children under the age of 15. If you aren't vaccinated for tetanus, you are at higher risk for the disease. in addition, the disease is more serious for those not vaccinated.

I see one to two cases of animal bite tetanus per year looking at google scholar-- though some are insect.

I also am surprised at the number of auto/moped accidents resulting in tetanus-- there was a thread on this where even I laughed at the member being offered T for an auto accident but I guess it happens...

Which leads me to wonder how in the world are they able to diagnose tetanus from a spider bite, insect bite or even a splinter since they cannot run any laboratory test on the possible site of infection to determine the presence of Clostridium Tetani.

[carriebft]

Originally Posted by TonyaW

Yes, I think it would give me a huge sense of relief if I knew for sure that it wasn't because they were vaccinated. How can I find out that information? If the rabies vaccine works then why wouldn't tetanus? I am not at all worried about the other diseases which we vaccinate for in the US, but there is not much you can do with tetanus once you get it without serious treatment, hospitalization and a serious risk of fatality.

You are definitely right about the serious treatment aspect, and many days and weeks spent in the hospital will be had by a young tetanus patient in many cases, but I would add that death from tetanus in children isn't actually all that common it seems.

In the study looking at 15 tetanus cases in children under the age of 15, I do not think any of them died....though there were some serious illnesses courses had and I would never belittle that.

[TonyaW]

Originally Posted by carriebft

You are definitely right about the serious treatment aspect, and many days and weeks spent in the hospital will be had by a young tetanus patient in many cases, but I would add that death from tetanus in children isn't actually all that common it seems.

In the study looking at 15 tetanus cases in children under the age of 15, I do not think any of them died....though there were some serious illnesses courses had and I would never belittle that.

And that's where I have the largest issue. How could I live with myself if my son ended up in the hospital for tetanus, though it is rare? Also how do I live with myself if my son is damaged from the vaccine?

[carriebft]

I think any way I answer that one ends up sounding..I dunno...utterly insufficient. It's one thing for me to say: you have to look at the risks and benefits and make the best choice for your family. then you have to OK and you have to not be hard on yourself when all we can do is make the best choices possible. but i know that sounds so...simplistic

[TonyaW]

Originally Posted by carriebft

I think any way I answer that one ends up sounding..I dunno...utterly insufficient. It's one thing for me to say: you have to look at the risks and benefits and make the best choice for your family. then you have to OK and you have to not be hard on yourself when all we can do is make the best choices possible. but i know that sounds so...simplistic

That's why I am here though, to hear others opinions or thoughts in case there is something I haven't thought of or that will just click for me in making this decision.

Sometimes the simplest answer is the one that clicks. I am interested in all points of views on the subject matter and appreciate every persons thoughts! :-)

[pregnant@40]

If there's only ONE vaccine I could give my child, it would be tetanus.
Clostridium spores are everywhere in the environment (soil, dead/decaying material), so there is a great chance of exposure & the consequences would be severe (high rate of death). Of course there are unvaccinated children who do not acquire tetanus, but there are others who do -- and you can't predict the future. Look at the rates of tetanus in developing countries, where no one receives the vaccine, to get an idea of what the risk would be here if there wasn't a tetanus vaccination program.

I understand the fear of vaccines, but generally the argument is against the number of doses a child is asked to receive. The tetanus is only a single shot, w/ 10 yr boosters.

But this opinion is coming from someone who is pro-vaccination.

[Marnica]

Do I think the tetanus vaccine is effective? I'm honestly unconvinced it is or it isn't.

I do know tetanus is extremely rare, always has been. My dad has an old victorian (from the late 1800's) medical text book and even it refers to tetanus an an extremely rare disease!

So I think the risk of an adverse event, or damaging my child's immune system (which is already overloaded due to genetics, allergies etc) is much higher than his risk of getting tetanus. I will never say I will never get him the DT, but I see no reason to give him to it now based on his everyday risk.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by pregnant@40

If there's only ONE vaccine I could give my child, it would be tetanus.
Clostridium spores are everywhere in the environment (soil, dead/decaying material), so there is a great chance of exposure & the consequences would be severe (high rate of death). Of course there are unvaccinated children who do not acquire tetanus, but there are others who do -- and you can't predict the future. Look at the rates of tetanus in developing countries, where no one receives the vaccine, to get an idea of what the risk would be here if there wasn't a tetanus vaccination program.

I understand the fear of vaccines, but generally the argument is against the number of doses a child is asked to receive. The tetanus is only a single shot, w/ 10 yr boosters.
But this opinion is coming from someone who is pro-vaccination.

No the primary series is 3 sots and then you get booosters every 10 years.


Tetanus is more common in developing nations because they are just that, developingf nations. They are not industrialized and often have poor sanitation and access to good medical care (ie wound care). Many African countries still pack the newborn umbilical cord in feces/dirt. This accounts for most of the neonatal cases. not saying they should give vaccines in underdeveloped nations, but to say the rates are highre there because they are undervaccinated is misleading IMO as many other factors need to be considered.

[TonyaW]

Originally Posted by pregnant@40

If there's only ONE vaccine I could give my child, it would be tetanus.
Clostridium spores are everywhere in the environment (soil, dead/decaying material), so there is a great chance of exposure & the consequences would be severe (high rate of death). Of course there are unvaccinated children who do not acquire tetanus, but there are others who do -- and you can't predict the future. Look at the rates of tetanus in developing countries, where no one receives the vaccine, to get an idea of what the risk would be here if there wasn't a tetanus vaccination program.

I understand the fear of vaccines, but generally the argument is against the number of doses a child is asked to receive. The tetanus is only a single shot, w/ 10 yr boosters.

But this opinion is coming from someone who is pro-vaccination.

It would be 3, DT's since he was never vaccinated and then possibly boosters. Though I am sure I would do titers.

The only thing I have an argument with this idea is that other countries also do not practice good hygiene or wound care or have access to medical treatment like we do. So, it is really hard to know for sure if it is because of vaccination that we have less incidents of tetanus or wound care, medical care and management. This is also where I am struggling. Though, for my sons wound there really wasn't much I could do for it and it was not a wound one would give TIG for either. So it was one of those middle of the road scenarios that really scares me!

[pregnant@40]

Originally Posted by Marnica

No the primary series is 3 sots and then you get booosters every 10 years.


Tetanus is more common in developing nations because they are just that, developingf nations. They are not industrialized and often have poor sanitation and access to good medical care (ie wound care). Many African countries still pack the newborn umbilical cord in feces/dirt. This accounts for most of the neonatal cases. not saying they should give vaccines in underdeveloped nations, but to say the rates are highre there because they are undervaccinated is misleading IMO as many other factors need to be considered.

It's true that tetanus is combined w/ the DTap, but some physicians offer the tetanus-alone vaccine (single shot).

[pregnant@40]

Originally Posted by TonyaW

It would be 3, DT's since he was never vaccinated and then possibly boosters. Though I am sure I would do titers.

The only thing I have an argument with this idea is that other countries also do not practice good hygiene or wound care or have access to medical treatment like we do. So, it is really hard to know for sure if it is because of vaccination that we have less incidents of tetanus or wound care, medical care and management. This is also where I am struggling. Though, for my sons wound there really wasn't much I could do for it and it was not a wound one would give TIG for either. So it was one of those middle of the road scenarios that really scares me!

OK, if you feel that you (or a medical professional) can do sufficient wound care to prevent tetanus, then why even question the whether or not you should get the tetanus vaccine for your child?

[carriebft]

Originally Posted by TonyaW

It would be 3, DT's since he was never vaccinated and then possibly boosters. Though I am sure I would do titers.

The only thing I have an argument with this idea is that other countries also do not practice good hygiene or wound care or have access to medical treatment like we do. So, it is really hard to know for sure if it is because of vaccination that we have less incidents of tetanus or wound care, medical care and management. This is also where I am struggling. Though, for my sons wound there really wasn't much I could do for it and it was not a wound one would give TIG for either. So it was one of those middle of the road scenarios that really scares me!

If you look at the links I posted a ways back, I do have some worries about relying totally on post exposure practices and not the vaccine:

-most of the cases of tetanus in the unvaccinated cases received TIG and they still got tetanus, and while some had less severe cases, others were not so lucky.

-many of the T cases in the second two links did not receive TIG because, as was the case with your experience, the wound didn't seem to call for TIG. this is discussed at length in the last two links.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by pregnant@40

It's true that tetanus is combined w/ the DTap, but some physicians offer the tetanus-alone vaccine (single shot).

I think you are misunderstanding. No matter what vaccine you get DT, Dtap or TT. The initial series for someone who is unvaccinated is 3 separate doses. The TT is also only used in children over 7 yrs so would not be an option for the OP.