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Opposition from family - Page 2

post #21 of 33
aww mama, that is so awful. i can't imagine my mom saying something on my unborn child was "gross"

good for you for looking into the facts. there is a lot of good info out there, but really going with your instincts is best. your baby is perfect the way he is
post #22 of 33
He is YOUR son, not your mothers son. Just don't discuss it with her anymore.

As for your DH, just tell him that it's HIS penis, and HIS decision. I told my son's father that I wouldn't put him on the birth certificate or let him be at the hospital if he still wanted to argue with me about it. Ask him if it was your daughter, would you circumcise her? Why is there a divide in gender? It's wrong on both genders!!!!!
post #23 of 33
I have an idea for situations like this (and I think when couples argue over the decision it would work too) that I think is interesting... I don't know if it would really work- but the concept of it seems compelling to me.

The basic idea is- Respecting the child's autonomy and right to make this decision is going to be a given- but that still leaves all these other people at the time of the birth who feel that they know something needs to be done and they feel bad that it's not being done. So- give them their say- let them say their argument... TO THE KID... let them make their case to him.

I think a dated letter would be nice. "Dear Baby Boy, At the time that you were born I tired to talk some sense into your mother..."

But what I'd really love to see is a youtube video- in fact- I've considered making a "play acting" video of this exact thing for activism- I think it might have a Penn/Teller type of ironic wit to it.

I guess what I like so much about this idea is that when the child is a hypothetical person that you are going to do something to- all these arguments for circumcision seem reasonable enough to the person making them- but suddenly when you imagine presenting them to a person (who you love) who is intact and accepts his body- well it gets pretty petty and hurtful real fast.

I also think about all the people who TRY to change someone's mind and can't... and they walk away heartbroken and feel like they just have to accept it... I say- make a record of what you did do- (I wish we could just record the actual argument) ...cue exasperated pregnant lady setting up the webcam... "Hi there little baby- your dad (grandma) and I were just talking about something and it started to get out of hand really fast and I thought that no matter how this turns out that it's actually really important that you see this so you know how it all went down." (and at that point- I see the other person's arguments packing their bags and leaving.)
post #24 of 33
Can you describe the reaction you have to the idea of a father requesting the surgical shaping of his infant daughter's labia to suit his personal preference for pretty?
post #25 of 33
I agree that you need to remind her whose child this is and that she doesn't get a say. I would also tell her to educate herself before trying to impose her outdated ideas on other people and express ideas about things that she is ill-informed about. I would also tell her that she made the choice to alter her child's genitals and you have the right to choose not to without her interference and/or judgement. I hope no one in either of our families tries to engage me in that kind of discussion, because I really doubt I would be able to keep my cool.
post #26 of 33
I can't speak to the religious issues...

but when I decided that I did not want DS to be circed, my mom got really upset about it. Apparently her first husband was intact and had lots of problems with infections... anyway it came up in convo and in a really angry tone, she said, "well I think you're making a big mistake." and I actually had the guts to say, "well the good news is that it doesn't matter what you think about it b/c you're not the mom." She has never said a single word about it since. She also stopped talking against a lot of other things (like home birth, and cloth diapers, and such).

My mom and I generally a good relationship. Arguing isn't normal for us. But from time to time, we do have a strong disagreement. It's good that our relationship is strong enough to be able to take it.

And really, she's a GREAT grandma. DS is really lucky.
post #27 of 33
For your mom, she doesn't need to agree with you on it... she just needs to know not to force retract his foreskin during diaper changes or bathtime but to only allow the owner of the penis to do that (your possible future son)

For your husband, the arguments you use will depend on why he is for circ. Is he afraid of locker room teasing? Is he struggling with you wanting to keep your son intact while he is circ'd and hearing it as 'your penis is bad, our son's will be good.' ? Does he just like going with the status quo without ever questioning why? Is he worried about your (possible future) son needing one as an adult and it hurting 'worse' and not understanding that it hurts just as much as an infant only they can't say so... and also pee and poop into the cut without having the same medications as an adult would have to help block the pain?

Ultimately, your (possible future) son DOES deserve an opinion. You can always get a circumsicion later but undoing a circ is extremely difficult (some say you can't undo it but there are a few men out there who have had success with what basically amounts to weights on the penis for very long periods of time... most men will probably not be willing to do this and from what I understand, it doesn't work for everyone anyway.)

Forget about your mom's opinion, just focus on getting to the root cause with your husband. At worst, you can always use the argument that the discussion of whether or not you should circumsize should come up at a later date post birth because doing it right at birth can mess up the breastfeeding relationship, even make it impossible because of the pain and confusion the newborn will experience. that and no one dies from not getting circ'd but babies die every year from it. Waiting til later raises the chances of not dying because blood will clot better. AT 3-6 months, he might not even bring it up again because he has grown used to seeing an intact penis and caring for it (which is easy.. you just wipe it off like a finger and do nothing else) that it doesn't matter that you never circ'd. If he does bring it up, you'll have an easier chance at asking why he wants to do it when there have been no problems so far. You just have to make sure you word the original agreement as having the discussion again... not making him think it WILL happen at a later date.
post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by treeoflife3 View Post
Ultimately, your (possible future) son DOES deserve an opinion. You can always get a circumsicion later but undoing a circ is extremely difficult (some say you can't undo it but there are a few men out there who have had success with what basically amounts to weights on the penis for very long periods of time... most men will probably not be willing to do this and from what I understand, it doesn't work for everyone anyway.).
Foreskin restoration can never bring back all the specialised nerve endings that are lost. What it does do is protect the glans and repair the keratinization that has taken place, so that the nerve endings on the glans regain their sensitivity. The five most sensitive locations on a penis are situated on the foreskin - these are lost for ever.
post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakunangovi View Post
Foreskin restoration can never bring back all the specialised nerve endings that are lost. What it does do is protect the glans and repair the keratinization that has taken place, so that the nerve endings on the glans regain their sensitivity. The five most sensitive locations on a penis are situated on the foreskin - these are lost for ever.
thank you
post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakunangovi View Post
Foreskin restoration can never bring back all the specialised nerve endings that are lost. What it does do is protect the glans and repair the keratinization that has taken place, so that the nerve endings on the glans regain their sensitivity. The five most sensitive locations on a penis are situated on the foreskin - these are lost for ever.
It also give you back a mobile, functional foreskin. This seems to add a great deal to the man's sexual feelings beyond simply being more sensitive, and provides much better feelings for the woman from the so coalled "gliding action". Think in terms of no lube needed.

Regards
post #31 of 33
If thinks it's "no big deal" he needs to prove that. He needs to show that it doesn't affect sexual sensitivity, that it's a perfectly safe procedure, that it's ethically acceptable, that it will have no psychological repercussions and so on. Hopefully an hour or two on Google will demonstrate that proving that is harder than he thinks.
post #32 of 33
My mom gave me the "it's so much cleaner" excuse. I told my (now) ex was intact and it was fine and that shut her up. Regardless, your the mama here, it doesn't matter what your mother says.
post #33 of 33

Hi,

Sorry that I didn't get back here earlier!  I hope you were able to talk to your husband a little more about it.  My husband wasn't pro circ for religious reasons.  To be honest, I don't even think he ever gave it a second thought.  He claims to remember a kid who got made fun of in the locker room or something so that was his only real argument. The article I showed him was actually the one from this site, The Case Against Circumcision.  I'll link it on this so you can get right to it.  I hope that helps!

http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/fleiss.html

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