Update! husband refuses vasectomy

[Blythe #1]

Update:

Thanks so much for all the replies! I agree with just about everything that was said. I would have posted sooner but I needed more time to think and come to a conclusion. Also, my husband has been working from home recently which ties up the computer. I really appreciate your honest comments both those that addressed how my husband acted toward me and those who addressed that I need to respect his decision to not want to sterilize his own body. Honestly, yes my husband would like a 5th child. Also, he not only is concerned about the religious aspect of a vasectomy but he is also truly terrified of someone performing any type of surgery to his "stuff". The following day after his rant, he did apologize to me on his own and admitted how scary a vasectomy sounds to him. I have explained the simplicity of vasectomies nowadays but that doesn't matter. He admitted that he got carried away in all the things he was saying to me. He said he didn't realize how strong his feelings are on all those subjects. (That's because he had been blocking them out of his mind out of fear and had not addressed them fully). I had tried many times in the past to have family planning conversations and it was a struggle each and every time. This time I pushed harder to have the conversation since I'm pregnant with #4. I have come to the point, that yes, it is completely on me to figure out how to stop having kids every 2 yrs. until menopause. After much research, I have decided on a postpartum tubal after a vaginal birth. I went to a dermatologist who agreed I probably do have a nickel allergy based on my symptoms when wearing earrings. He did not officially test me since doing a nickel allergy patch test is a Category C for pregnancy and not recommended for breastfeeding. Adiana (the Essure alternative) has the highest failure rate among all methods of permanent sterilization so that option is out too. Diaphragms and condoms are not something I want to be messing with for the next 20 yrs and I certainly don't want to rely on my husband to be willing to put a condom on or me with the diaphragm either for that matter. So, postpartum tubal here I come! Also, I did decide against the midwife that was a little far, not because of what my husband said, but because of what one of the very experience doulas said that I spoke with. The hospital that the midwife is at would be a real struggle to have a natural childbirth unless the midwife is at my side the entire time and the closer hospital with an obgyn would be easier based on the nurses being more willing to work with a ncb patient. I have a consultation with a different obgyn tomorrow (same close hospital as my current obgyn). I'm really excited about it. He is known by the doulas in the area to truly help ncb patients. I plan on being totally up front with the man tomorrow. This being the last baby, I would really like to have a peaceful birth and postpartum period if possible. (I did have that with my son, baby #2, in another state. It was wonderful.

Thanks everybody!




I'm posting this to have a listening ear. I am upset and frustrated with my husband. I am pregnant with our 4th child. I have a 1 yr. old, 3 yr. old, and 5 yr. old. I'm ready to be done. My husband was raised Catholic and still has issues regarding the morality of any type of birth control (except natural family planning) and of sterilization. We are both Protestant now and have been going to a protestant church our entire marriage (10 yrs.). I disagree with hormonal birth control and the IUDs including the non-hormonal copper one. I am not 100% okay morally with sterilization, but I'm not necessarily 100% okay with any major decision I have made in my life, but I still make decisions regardless. I am not willing to do NFP for the next 20 yrs. I'm 31 yrs. old. My cycles have always been all over the place. I know NFP is even for women with irregular cycles but I'm just not willing to do it knowing that every month will be completely different than the month before. I'm not willing to abstain for long periods of time waiting and waiting for my delayed random ovulation to occur because I keep having patches of what appears to be fertile cervical mucus which doesn't result in ovulation until weeks later. Anyways, I have looked into having a postpartum tubal ligation done after a vaginal birth or Essure done 6 wks postpartum. I'm 11 wks. pregnant right now, but I don't want to be figuring these things out at the end of my pregnancy, I want to know sooner what I'm going to do than know later. A vasectomy has much less risks than a tubal. Vasectomies can't result in an ectopic pregnancy. Tubals can. Essure can too but less likely. I am more interested in Essure, but I might have a nickel allergy and you can't have Essure done if you have a nickel allergy. I have allergic reactions on my earlobes when I wear earrings and sometimes on my wrist when I wear my nice watch. I have a nickel allergy test done next week. If I do have the allergy, then it's either the tubal or husband gets vasectomy, right???!! Wrong! I taked to him at length today and he adamantly refuses a vasectomy despite the higher risks for me. He thinks it's immoral but can respect my decision to sterilize myself because I am the one having the kids and doing the majority of the childrearing since he goes to work and I stay at home with the kids. It really hurt my feelings that he refuses. I told him this. It didn't matter. He is unwilling to have a vasectomy because he said God will hold him accountable when he dies. I think that having 4 children raised in a Christian home is a great thing, and I don't think that I have to keep having kids every 2 yrs. until menopause. I think it's legalistic to think that NFP is the only moral choice. Even NFP you purposely don't have sex so you won't get pregnant. That's preventing the hand of God from making you pregnant, isn't it? After all this, he then got upset with me for going against the grain and doing natural childbirth and not wanting the external fetal monitor (use of the dopper instead like I had with #2 baby and #3 baby both born in hospitals) on me and disagreeing with the doctor. He says I base my stuff on Internet research and that I'm not a doctor. 1st half is false 2nd half is true
I'm having a hard time with all of this right now. I think I need a hug-seriously. Thanks for listening.

[Kindermama]

Wow, I can understand why you are in such a hard place! What was the agreement you made in the beginning? There is not much you can do to change his spiritual convictions at this point and short of never having sex with him, you are going to have to take the birth control issue into your own hands. It sounds like you aren't 100% morally ok with BC though. So...you're going to have to go there and make a decision from your own spiritual convictions and not put it on him. He's clear about his decision already. Just know that no matter what you choose, you can still conceive another child at some point! It's not always up to us!

[c'est moi]

any chance that he also has more concerns about this than just the religious guilt? i know my very non-catholic husband is hesitant to get a vasectomy after our last child which we anticipate having when he's about 39 because you never know what the future holds. he thinks about things like...what if we decide we want more kids? what if one child passes away? will we still feel like our family is complete? what if i pass on and he remarries? what if...?

not that this excuses anything, but these kind of thoughts might be compounding his hesitancy.

[InMediasRes]

I hate to sound unsupportive, but if he's going with the Catholic stance on this, the person who DOESN'T have moral qualms with birth control is on their own as far as preventing.

I understand where you're coming from though. It's really hard to have a mismatch on this issue.

[annie2186]

Originally Posted by InMediasRes

I hate to sound unsupportive, but if he's going with the Catholic stance on this, the person who DOESN'T have moral qualms with birth control is on their own as far as preventing.

I understand where you're coming from though. It's really hard to have a mismatch on this issue.

Yep - I am totally ok with NFP and abstinence.........my husband has issues with not DTD all the time so I have to morally leave BC up to him.

He decided that it was way to early for me to O and didn't use a condom/pull out and now I have #3 (plus one bonus child) on the way.

So, yeah, I'm just saying - even if I was REALLY struggling with babies and getting pregnant and SO ready to be done, I could NEVER permanently sterilize myself..............

Sorry you are having issues though!

[Blythe #1]

In response to some of your ques./comments,

We didn't have any agreement in the beginning. My husband did not want to talk about birth control/sterilization for very long at all any time I brought it up throughout our marriage. I've tried to explain how important the talk is. I used the bcp for the first 3 1/2 years. I was originally prescribed it at 16 yrs. old for irregular bleeding, not for birth control. I didn't have sex anyways until our wedding night. After giving birth to our first child, I chose not to take bcps anymore after reading the full insert that came with the bcps stating that ovulation was just one of the ways it prevented pregnancy and that it didn't always prevent ovulation and that sometimes the mechanism to prevent pregnancy can be the prevention of a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus meaning the baby is already conceived.

The only concerns my husband has beyond the religious guilt is the pain, risks, and side effects of a vasectomy.

If my husband had calmly talked to me last night about all of this, then I could have taken it a lot better. But he didn't. He was rude and insulting. He implied that I don't think about the morality of these things and I just do what others do like my dad and my sister's husband. I told him that he was wrong and that I had been praying about it for several years and fretting over it. He technically knows that, but chose not to remember. I didn't ask him to go get a vasectomy. I just asked him if that was even a possibility-was it even on the table? After his hour long conversation on the phone with me (he's out of town this week), which was an hour of raised voices, and anger from him, I was spent. We then talked for an additional hour last night after I put the kids in bed. That's when he starting ranting about how I was unsafe for not agreeing with everything an obgyn says. (They want EFM a minimum of 20 min. every hour-possibly more depending how advance in labor you are). With my 2nd and 3rd child, they used a doppler intermittently and I was not required to get out of the shower/tub/walking the halls or whatever to be sequestered to a bed with a monitor strapped around my stomach. I did not request a doppler to be used. That's just how they did things. Much more nurse care and NCB friendly than the hospitals that are around me now. I also was considering traveling 37 min. to a midwife in a hospital for this baby, but when we went there the other day to time it, there was a wreck along the way (which happens every few months on this particular highway) and caused it to take a full hour to get there. My labors have been roughly 3 hrs. long from the time I check in at the hospital. He said I was unsafe for thinking of going that far and that he would be really mad if I had the baby in the car and reminded me if I cause the baby to die, it's half his too. It seemed like the whole conversation turned into a rant about my pickiness from childbirth choices to sterilization to what church we go to everything. I like to research things a lot when I make decisions and he can't stand that about me. He thinks I should just make decisions and deal with whatever I make and not change them. He doesn't like it that I read stuff on these websites like mothering.com. He sees it as me worrying too much and self-diagnosing. I don't. I see it as being an educated patient and informed consumer.

[Kindermama]

I would let things die down for a bit. He took the BC conversation to a whole other level. He sounds pretty black & white and traditional. Nothing wrong with that but it's hard to come to a compromise with people who are stuck on one side of major issues! I hope someday in the future you can meet more in the middle. In the meantime, keep praying for guidance!

[laohaire]

I hear you, though I am squeamish about the idea of anyone pressuring another to have elective surgery.

I may have missed your reference to barrier methods, but I didn't see any. I don't do hormonal birth control either, and I am personally unwilling to steriliize myself, and would not want DH to do it either. Would a condom or diaphragm work, then? They are effective. You can use FAM instead of NFP, or you can just use a condom/diaphragm every time and not bother with charting.

While I'm not keen on pressuring a guy to have a vascetomy, I have NO qualms telling him to put on a condom or ELSE. And I'm completely immune to all the complaints I've heard guys have about them. Too bad, so sad.

[Smokering]

Hmm. A few thoughts:

-It seems like he's morally OK about using a temporary method of birth control permanently (ie, using NFP to avoid until you reach menopause - yes?), but not OK with using a permanent method of birth control. That seems frankly confused to me. If he has no plans to allow further conception, then he is not "open to life" and should not pretend he is. If he is really no longer Catholic, then he is not bound by the Catholic position, and is free to make up his own mind on this issue - and I don't mean "pull any old answer out of the air", but he needs to think through the logic of his position. Is there a moral difference between once-off permanent birth control and continued ("permanent") use of temporary birth control? I don't see how there is. If he thinks there is, perhaps he should explain how. I certainly don't think he should get a vasectomy against his conscience, but he needs to probe his conscience for sound reasoning. Does he think God won't hold him accountable for preventing potential children by abstaining when you're fertile?? I'm pretty sure God will know you two didn't just forget to have sex every cycle until after ovulation. (I'm not implying that that's wrong, incidentally: DH and I have CTA for months and I was morally comfortable with it. But it is what it is, you know? If it's intended to be birth control, it is birth control.)

-Are you sure he doesn't secretly want more children?

-He's accused you of following other people like a sheep (re the vasectomy), and of needlessly rocking the boat (re alternative birth choices). Again, that's a tad confused - are you a rebel or a drone? He does realise that NFP is more alternative/crunchy/off the beaten track than vasectomy, right? So he doesn't mind you being an oddball when it suits him?

-Is it possible he views NFP as "your" birth control, because you are (presumably) in charge of checking CF, temping and so on? There's a Catholic teaching that a woman can legitimately have sex with her husband if he's wearing a condom (as long as she didn't want/ask him to), on the grounds that's it's his sin, not hers. It's possible that, vaguely remembering/internalising this teaching, he's convinced himself that you "do" NFP so he's morally off the hook for it. He doesn't have to worry about it. But if he went in for a vasectomy, he'd have to own up that it was his birth control, and face some issues about the morality of BC that he just wants to ignore. I dunno, maybe that's far-fetched, but it's worth a thought. NFP, for a man, is fairly passive compared to surgery, so maybe it doesn't seem as morally "real" to him, if that makes sense? (Kind of a "willing to eat meat but not visit the slaughterhouse" thing, although that's probably not the best analogy to use!)

So... points for refusing to do something against his convictions, but points off for not looking at those convictions logically, and double points off for ranting at you about natural childbirth.

[Arduinna]

It does sound like you have a nickel allergy I have the same issues and have one. As for your dh, I know you are frustrated but you can't make another person have a medical procedure they don't want, regardless of their gender or how illogical you think their feelings are.

[Chamomile Girl]

Originally Posted by Blythe #1

The only concerns my husband has beyond the religious guilt is the pain, risks, and side effects of a vasectomy. Because of course the pain, risks and side effects of pregnancy/birth are so much less?

If my husband had calmly talked to me last night about all of this, then I could have taken it a lot better. But he didn't. He was rude and insulting. He implied that I don't think about the morality of these things and I just do what others do like my dad and my sister's husband. I told him that he was wrong and that I had been praying about it for several years and fretting over it. He technically knows that, but chose not to remember. I didn't ask him to go get a vasectomy. I just asked him if that was even a possibility-was it even on the table? Seems like a perfectly reasonable query to me, albeit one that should probably be taken up in person. Discussions over the phone have a tendency to not go well in my experience.After his hour long conversation on the phone with me (he's out of town this week), which was an hour of raised voices, and anger from him, I was spent. We then talked for an additional hour last night after I put the kids in bed. That's when he starting ranting about how I was unsafe for not agreeing with everything an obgyn says.Ok, here is where my red flags go up. Why is this even his business? Is HE pushing a baby out of his vagina? Grrrr (They want EFM a minimum of 20 min. every hour-possibly more depending how advance in labor you are). With my 2nd and 3rd child, they used a doppler intermittently and I was not required to get out of the shower/tub/walking the halls or whatever to be sequestered to a bed with a monitor strapped around my stomach. I did not request a doppler to be used. That's just how they did things. Much more nurse care and NCB friendly than the hospitals that are around me now. I also was considering traveling 37 min. to a midwife in a hospital for this baby, but when we went there the other day to time it, there was a wreck along the way (which happens every few months on this particular highway) and caused it to take a full hour to get there.Even an hour...which is worst cast scenario... is do-able with the timing you just mentioned. If you want a midwife then you should have one. My labors have been roughly 3 hrs. long from the time I check in at the hospital. He said I was unsafe for thinking of going that far and that he would be really mad if I had the baby in the car and reminded me if I cause the baby to die, it's half his too. Ummm, no actually its not really about him at all. And throwing in the baby harm thing is really immature and controlling. What the heck is his problem? It seemed like the whole conversation turned into a rant about my pickiness from childbirth choicesYou are not being picky, you are being smart and educated. to sterilization to what church we go to everything. I like to research things a lot when I make decisions Good for you! I wish more folks did this. and he can't stand that about meWhy not?? Because you should just believe what you are told...by whom? I find this really disturbing.. He thinks I should just make decisions and deal with whatever I make and not change them. He doesn't like it that I read stuff on these websites like mothering.com. He sees it as me worrying too much and self-diagnosing. I don't. I see it as being an educated patient and informed consumerSorry, but you are totally right here and his getting on your case for being a critically thinking, educated mama is highly inappropriate!.

Welcome to MDC by the way. I think you will find lots of stuff on these messageboards that support your birthview. I don't have much advice about the birth control thing, but I do hope that you continue to stay strong in yourself regardless of your husband's preference. You are setting an estimable example for your children.

[larablue]

How about using condoms and/or a diaphragm?

Although I can understand your point of view I do not think it is wise to force a vasectomy on anyone.

[brichole1214]

I notice that he's not just concerned about the BC part though, but also your views on having the baby. I am REQUIRED to travel 35 minutes (as long as there's not a wreck on the roadway) to get to the hospital I will be delivering at because I don't have another hospital near me who delivers babies anymore. (it's a better hospital anyway so i'm not upset about that) anyways, my point is this...what does he think women did before hospitals? I mean the monitoring has only gotten more "tech" savy over the past 26 years since i was born. When my mom went in to have me and my twin brother they put her COMPLETELY UNDER and ended up having to shock her 2 times after we were out. So doctor's don't ALWAYS know best...and though they are getting better at detecting things, you never know all of the risks until baby is on his/her way. Also, him saying if "YOU" cause the baby to die during child birth is NOT fair to you!!!! I honestly don't think there are many things that a true carring mamma can do to stop a child who's going to go on and not stay here on this earth with us. My cousing had a VERY healthy pregnancy and gave birth to her son a couple days before her due date and he was still born with breathing problems and ended up passing away 3 days after his birth...and she didn't do anything wrong. I hope that he will calm down and realize that you weren't really asking him to have the vasectomy, you were just asking if it was an option. Since it's obviously going to be up to you for the prevention of not having any more children, then you need to know what all of your options are. G/L and I really hope that all of this pans out for you!!!!

[dakotablue]

I am so sorry

it sounds like there is more going on than just his religious views. In mean loving your wife is also commanded. A husband is called to lay down his life for his wife. So protecting you is also very very high on the 'list.' (of that view on childbearing)

Is there anyway he'd agree to sitting down with your pastor for some counseling? just to see what is really bothering him. Is it that he wants more children? is it that he is still truely a Catholic?

I'm right with you on not really feeling on birth control and IUD's. I'm not comfortable with anything that could interfere with a fertilized eggs chance of life. Not ovulating at all, made sense...until I learned more.

I am blessed with a Dh that sees the risks and the % of success of reversal So when the time comes he will have one done. BUT we were able to talk.

I think that is what stands out the most to me in your post. your Dh's unwilliness to talk. Does he want you to have children every two years forever? You just don't know because he's not communicating. I'd get some outside help just to get on the same page.

I am so sorry its hard...

[rhiandmoi]

I think you have to respect the bodily integrity of another human being. He has the right to refuse to have his body changed through surgery, no matter what the reasoning for it is.

There are plenty of barrier methods. I would recommend being fitted for a diaphragm.

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi

I think you have to respect the bodily integrity of another human being. He has the right to refuse to have his body changed through surgery, no matter what the reasoning for it is.

There are plenty of barrier methods. I would recommend being fitted for a diaphragm.

I agree. My DH says he would never get a vasectomy. It's not because he's religious (he's not at all), or feels like we should have a million kids (though, we do want 1-2 more). It's b/c he is not comfortable with the procedure. Plenty of people say, well, your wife had to be pregnant 4 times, and cut open (all c-sections), etc., the least you could do is go to an outpatient clinic and get snipped. The thing is, it's his body, and his choice. I completely respect that. I, personally, don't want to have a tubal ligation for similar reasons - even though I also don't want to use anything hormonal or have a foreign object placed in my body to prevent pregnancy. When we are 100% done, we may end up using condoms and NFP - or who knows what we'll decide on by then. I guess my point is, regardless of whatever his reasons are - it's his decision. End of story. It needs to be respected.

[pumpkin]

You have some time to figure this out. I would just get through the pregnancy and early post-partum. If the two of you haven't come to a good mutual decision by then you can always abstain for awhile.

[zinemama]

While it is his decision to make about the V, his attitude toward it is illogical and his attitude toward you is disrespectful. My advice would be to get a diaphraghm.

[Mackenzie]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife

I agree. My DH says he would never get a vasectomy. It's not because he's religious (he's not at all), or feels like we should have a million kids (though, we do want 1-2 more). It's b/c he is not comfortable with the procedure. Plenty of people say, well, your wife had to be pregnant 4 times, and cut open (all c-sections), etc., the least you could do is go to an outpatient clinic and get snipped. The thing is, it's his body, and his choice. I completely respect that. I, personally, don't want to have a tubal ligation for similar reasons - even though I also don't want to use anything hormonal or have a foreign object placed in my body to prevent pregnancy. When we are 100% done, we may end up using condoms and NFP - or who knows what we'll decide on by then. I guess my point is, regardless of whatever his reasons are - it's his decision. End of story. It needs to be respected.

His Body, his choice... He shouldn't be act like a jerkface about it though...

[Blythe #1]

update in first post!