Is this discipline appropriate? - Page 2

[Pepper44]

I live in Kentucky, which is not far from southwestern Virginia...

The director's ideas about discipline sets off a huge red flag for me.

I used to work in a daycare, one that was in a church. The director had the EXACT same discipline method for anxious, crying toddlers. I worked in the 2 year old room and we had a little girl who was hysterical when first came. The director wouldn't let us pick her up, wouldn't let her carry a comfort object, etc. The little girl would cry until she vomited multiple times a day and we weren't allowed to hold her. It was horrible.

The teachers at the center were very, very loving but the director was above everything. She got to set the rules and she enforced them. Lots of bad things went on that parents had absolutely no idea about, like children not being allowed to have anything to drink between meals. At meals they were allowed half of a tiny kid sized glass of kool aid, milk, or water, and no more because otherwise they would pee too much...

Anyway, OP, be very very watchful of other things going on at your child's daycare center.

[MsHiss]

Originally Posted by Violet2

Oh. Hell. No.

The director has lost her mind if she thinks her approach is kind or even effective.

I would be livid. I AM livid on your behalf.

She's teaching your son that emotions are bad and deserve isolation. Teaching him that no one will help him when he is sad.

Horrific.

V

[pregnant@40]

Yikes, pull him out! There are so many red flags in this posting. I wouldn't hesitate to withdraw him from this place.

[pregnant@40]

Lord, it was painful to read your post so I didn't get through the first two paragraphs. Just scanned them again, and want to say that I'm HORRIFIED. This woman should not be working with children. This is emotional abuse, it's damaging. I would inform the other parents of her methods, and report her. And when you meet her, tell her your honest feelings/perspective about the whole thing so that she knows how crippling this approach can be for a small kid -- maybe she'll stop, or develop some awareness, or think twice, even if just temporarily while you file a complaint.

Your child's behavior is appropriate and normal, and kids adjust in their own time. But they need nurturing every step of the way, and not be subjected to isolation and shame.

[accountclosed3]

the only person having 'willful tantrums' is the director.

honestly, i would keep a *very* close watch on what is going on, and tell them director that i will not tolerate accusations against my child's normal behaviors. sounds to me like typical separation anxiety. first from you, then from the teacher with whom he connected. *duh*

the right course of action is a comfort object and holding. that seems obvious to me. a quiet place might also be helpful; my very cheery son gets overwhelmed in the indoor part of playgroup--and i'm usually right there next to him. he'll come over and want 'yums' (comfort nursing).

so, yeah, if you're going to keep him there, then i would keep a very close eye on everything.

[Belia]

My son was in a Montessori program all last school year, from 12 months to 22 months. We were off together for the summer, then he went back this August (right after he turned 2). And it still took about 3 weeks for him to adjust! Even though he had been at the program for a year!

At his school they would never handle a crying child like you describe. They cuddle and redirect. For example, with my son, they give him a job to do in the mornings (turn on the lights, take down the chairs, and help prepare snack.) He loves to help, so they plugged into his needs. He also loves animals, so sometimes they will walk with him outside and see the rabbit or the goats.

If a child is really losing it they will move him away from the group, but not in a punishing, isolating sense. Just so his tears don't become contagious.

And the removing of a comfort object? No way. My kid has dragged his sweatshirt around for an hour when he needed to.

But it does take time for a child to adjust, even under the best of circumstances. And your son has NOT had the best of circumstances due to all of his recent transitions. The way the director is handling this situation makes me so sad.

[One_Girl]

I noticed your update and I would be even more worried about a place where the director and the teacher agree that the child needs to be removed from the room for being sad. I just witnessed the one on one with a teacher that the teacher in the 2-3 year old room uses for barely 2 year old girl who just moved into that room and has a lot of seperation anxiety where I work and it was not the loving situation the one on one phrasing implies. She was against the wall crying and the teacher was standing over her telling her over and over again to be all done. I really think that if the director support is that bad from day one you should find somewhere else. I also really doubt that the director will give this method a lot of trying if it doesn't work quickly so I suggest a backup plan. One on one, especially outside of the classroom, means that the children get less of the teacher than they already get, the other teacher is left with almost twice the workload and may not be able to give the amount of supervision toddlers really need, and it may violate the regulations for ratios so the kids that need a lot of one on one are often made to either cry it out or leave the program. It is good to have a backup plan in case that happens if this is care you rely on.

[lauren]

Moving to Working and Student Parents which focuses much more on day care/child care.

But cannot resist saying first, that the interventions the center is using are completely ungrounded in child development and attachment theory and are likely making the adjustment worse for your little one. It may be time to find a new arrangement.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Violet2

Oh. Hell. No.

The director has lost her mind if she thinks her approach is kind or even effective.

I would be livid. I AM livid on your behalf.

She's teaching your son that emotions are bad and deserve isolation. Teaching him that no one will help him when he is sad.

Horrific.

V

:
Exactly what I was thinking.

[lilyka]

oh my gosh....I am crying

lets review. He is 20 months old. A BABY!!! He has been in several daycare situations in the last 30 days. He had been at this one for 8. He liked his teacher but she left? He sounds lost and confused and now they are being cruel.

And I am a suck it up and stop crying kind of girl. but this is breaking my heart. he is just a little guy in a strange new world.

At least they told you what was up rather than just doing it.

I think removing him from the classroom seems appropriate so long as it is done with love and with someone there to help him (rather than scold and intimidate him). peace quiet and a little love could be exactly what he needs. and Crying is contagious in a classroom full of little ones. not to mention disruptive. Give the poor kid some privacy to work through his feelings. and a little calmness to adjust.

[justKate]

Yikes, this is hard. My gut reaction would be to pull him out in a heartbeat. BUT it would be another rough transition, and they have agreed to work with you....

I would start looking at alternative arrangements. If it doesn't improve (dramatically), I would try to find a different place for him. It's such a hard decision to make, because either decision could be hard on him.

I don't know about KY specifically, but generally licensed daycare centers have rules that cover time outs--in my state, one minute per year of age is actually in the rule book. So an in-effect time out "until he stops crying" would be a violation of that rule. If it happens again, I would report it. That is just flat out inappropriate.

[nextcommercial]

EIGHT days?????

I have no huge problem with sitting a child on the bottom step for whatever. But, EIGHT days????

A typical transition takes at least two full weeks. If, after two weeks, a child is still very unhappy, I would talk to the parents. But, I still wouldn't be too concerned. Some kids cry more. Some kids cry over everysinglething. I have a child here that still cries over everything even after two years. Apparently, she was at hockey practice and some other kid "took" her bean bag, and she screamed so loud the first aid team came out on the ice to see if she'd lost a finger or arm.

But, I wouldn't CALL you on the phone at work to discuss a 20 month old who still cries when he doesn't get his way after EIGHT days. I probably wouldn't use the bottom step approach, and I can't even begin to understand why the fact that he carries a toy around is a problem. Unless he's beating someone over the head with it. If the toy it'self is making him cry, I'd take it. But, not just because he's fixated on it.

I'd ask her to just leave him be for another week, and see how things go when his teacher comes back. Also, talk to his teachers, not the director, and find out how THEY feel about it.

I think she sounds crabby and anal. Maybe she expects to hear only happy sounds, and he's "ruining" her idea of what she thinks she should be hearing. But, she's not giving him a fair chance.

[Qestia]

I know you must be loathe to put him through another transition, but your dc sounds like a complete nightmare. To punish a child for being sad, for saying a 20 month old is manipulative. Have you looked into family daycares? That's what I chose when my children were younger, because it's a smaller environment, the caregiver is consistent, etc.