Sending babies/toddlers to preschool: a new trend? - Page 3

[Selesai]

Originally Posted by c'est moi

maybe i'm just out of touch, but i consider kindergarten what you go to when you're 5. it's your first required exploration into "what is school?" preschool is the optional thing parents send their children to at 4, maybe even 3 years old. but really it's mostly just playing. anything before the age of 3 is just a care provider.

i guess i just assumed that any place that called themselves a "school" was just doing so for marketing appeal???

My concern is that kindergarten here is full day five days a week. So while I don't feel that my DS (4) NEEDS pre-K (and, in fact, we cannot afford it right now) I hope that the transition from at home with his dad to full time school isn't too much. I am not really a big fan of full day kindergarten.

[April Dawn]

More and more kids do seem to go at a young age. I'm fretting about whether to send DS to preschool next year when he's two. I can't imagine being ready to leave him in a school-type setting - he's apart from me 3 days a week while I work, but he's always either with DH or his grandparents, never a day care type setting. But the preschool we're considering is attached to the elementary/middle school we are considering sending him to (it's a Catholic private school). The kids who start there at age 2 get the first shot at the spots in the older 3-4 preschool program. And if the kids who do preschool there are the first to get spots in the K-8 school. So... it ends up kind of pushing parents to start their 2 year olds.

[Addie]

Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom

I think what's new is calling daycare "preschool". Around here, kids start going to "school" at 6 weeks old. That's what they call my nephew's daycare.

I see this in my family, too.

[CatsCradle]

I think what's new is calling daycare "preschool". Around here, kids start going to "school" at 6 weeks old. That's what they call my nephew's daycare.

Well, in all honesty, if people didn't feel so demonized for sending their children to daycare/childcare, maybe they would feel less compelled to call daycare "school." I see it here all the time.

My DD started Montessori school when she was two. Since the school goes to 8th grade and follows the NYC education department's rules and regulations, it hardly qualifies as daycare. But, whatever. Whether it's preschool, daycare, alternative education...we're doing what works for our family. Don't care how other people qualify it or if people disagree with how I qualify it.

[texmati]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle

Well, in all honesty, if people didn't feel so demonized for sending their children to daycare/childcare, maybe they would feel less compelled to call daycare "school." I see it here all the time.

exactly.

[ellemenope]

Originally Posted by ellemenope

And, I actually think it is a bit pretentious for a SAHM to send a toddler to daycare so that he may benifit from what the daycare babies are "learning" in the morning, and that this attitude might even be a slap in the face to parents who have no choice but to put their kids in full-day care.

Originally Posted by texmati

I think you and I are on the same page except for bolded-- I can't imagine anyone thinking it was pretentious for a SAHM to use a service that she paid for! Why, I only use part time care, and I don't think I'm pretentious (well, about this)!

lol, I feel like I am digging myself a hole here.

I think it started with daycares making working parents feel better about sending their infants and toddlers to daycare by calling it preschool.

So, then daycare is called preschool and toddlers are being taught ABCs while mommy and daddy are at work, and all of the sudden, SAHMs are feeling like their kids are missing out on something.

Part time preschool is then marketed to the SAHM.

I think it is a slap in the face to working moms (assuming that working moms would stay home if they could. And, that is not always true) because it is basically flaunting that not only do you have enough money to SAH, but you also have enough money to put your child in PT care. It is like having your cake and eating it, too.

I recant the whole pretentious line. It is hardly pretentious to do what you believe is best for your children. My apologies. It depends on the SAHM's true motives and attitude. And, yeah, it is your own money, but that is not the point either.

I am hearing two things in this thread. The first being that it is ok to send a toddler to preschool when it is a really good school and she is learning a lot. And, the second being, it is ok because it is a nice break for the SAHM.

Both, of these reasons, I, personaly, don't believe are great reasons to send the under 2 crowd to an institutionalized setting for any regular amount of time if you don't have to. But, I think that this is another debate.

[GuildJenn]

I guess I just have a different perspective. I went back to work full-time when my son was just shy of two, so there was no question that he was going to be in care.

But I wanted a place where the adults were really engaged and had a really good sense of appropriate child development. And I figured since my son was going to be away from me anyway it would be nice to find a place that had "bonus features."

I found a Montessori (not saying Montessori is the only place or whatever; I just found an especially good one) with a great toddler and casa programme. I'm quite happy calling it a school because they do have -- through concrete play and activities -- an idea of what they are leading towards in terms of curriculum. Curriculum isn't something that they just have to do to be licensed; it's at every level from kid-sized sinks and toilets to shelves.

At the toddler age, for example, they have lots of really fun activities to help develop the hand muscles for more fine motor movements like writing later. Was I obsessed that my child learn to write early? No. But the activities were fun /and/ it helped. That's so cool. I would never have thought of letting my son prick paper with a relatively sharp object but oh he LOVED it.

It's not for every child I'm sure but for my son it really has enriched his life and really informed my parenting. At home he was also learning and growing but as one person, I only had one person's set of ideas for things to do. With our preschool he got to do things I wouldn't do, and loves them. And I got to learn about what turns my kid on.

So I don't see the issue. If it's not something you feel is right for your kid, that's absolutely fine with me.

Having seen the excitement and the joy of the other kids and the loving care of the teachers...if I were home and I could afford it, I'd do it all over again. It's just such a bonus in - warm, social fun.

No one has to feel sorry that anyone marketed to me or my child. We didn't put him in his Montessori so he'll go to a great college or because we 'should'; we picked it because it is a lovely place to spend his time learning in a slightly more organized, social way than we can provide at home.

Also just to address the "institutionalized setting." My son's toddler class was 6 kids and a teacher + assistants. Right now where they are it's a house converted to a school; the rooms are cosy and there's nice stuff around. I think you need to look at specific places before you toss that around. I certainly toured places that were more what I would call institutional but I'm not convinced that's where the majority of preschools end up.

[mistymama]

Around here people call daycare "school" - so I know many young toddlers that are in "school" - but that's just what it's called, kwim? It's daycare. There are also many Mom's day out programs that boast a preschool curriculum, but I honestly think those are more about giving the SAHM a break than school.

Ds went to Waldorf nursery at age 3 part time. It was mainly because I had to work, but I do feel it was a nice, gentle transition into "school" for him. Loving teachers, lots of outside play, but also learning to play with other kids, sit at the table for lunch, etc. We have never planned to homeschool, so I think it was helpful for him to have some experience with being away from me in a gentle school setting before age 5.

I'm a WAHM (part time) but I also plan to send our next child (due in October) to Waldorf nursery, or maybe Montessori when he's around 3 years old. I don't think it's necessary for learning or development, but I do think it can be beneficial for kids to experience "school" prior to the real deal, esp if your plans are not to homeschool.

[April Dawn]

Originally Posted by ellemenope

it is basically flaunting that not only do you have enough money to SAH, but you also have enough money to put your child in PT care. It is like having your cake and eating it, too.

Originally Posted by ellemenope

And, the second being, it is ok because it is a nice break for the SAHM.
Both, of these reasons, I, personaly, don't believe are great reasons to send the under 2 crowd to an institutionalized setting for any regular amount of time if you don't have to.

I don't know if you are a SAHM or a WOHM, but these statements sound kind of hostile to any SAHM who needs a break. The attitude seems to be, how dare a SAHM not only be able to afford SAH, but also need a break from it and be able to afford that? I totally understand needing a break. I WOH part time. My work days are honestly my break. Yes, I work while I'm there - but I can have a cup of coffee, chat with a coworker uninterrupted, use the bathroom when I want. My days at home are much harder. I think if I were completely a SAHM, and didn't have family nearby, I would absolutely use a preschool. My situation right now is that I don't want my DS to start preschool any sooner than necessary - but again, I am fortunate enough to go to work and get a break several afternoons a week, and fortunate enough to leave him with my parents while I work. I know SAHMs with no family around and a partner who is gone very long hours. It's basically the mom and toddlers all day every day. I absolutely will not judge someone in that boat for needing the break that preschool provides!

[Joyster]

I'm one of those SAHMs who is slapping those WOHM in the face with having two kids in their Montessori. Funny though, my WOHM friends don't feel that way at all. Being friends and good people I guess they are seeing the positive affect it has on my children, namely DS2 who I mentioned upthread, and being the loving aunties they are, they couldn't be more thrilled for him.

It's not at all institutionalized and it's pretty much like what GuildJenn has described of her school, down to my son even being in a class of 6 kids. I chose my school because of the feeling of community and it's very much a family feeling with the teachers, kids and other parents.

My goals in sending my kids to school is to instill a love of learning, not so that they can go to an Ivy league school, but so that they are eager to explore the world. Whether it be about the planets, dinosaurs, music, math, cooking, gardening, swimming you name it. I can do that to a degree, but I am not confident I can do it with the skill and competence that their teachers can. My sons are also part of a community that is larger than me, and they have their lives which has helped build them into the wonderful little creatures they are.

According to some people here, I might be pretentious, I might be fooling myself a bad SAHM, slapping other women in the face, but I take great pride in the Montessori I send my kids. I've seen them grow in so many ways in addition to the ways we at home enrich their lives is amazing. I have to admit I'm a bit surprised at the judgment, but I am thankful that I'm not a newer or less experienced/confident mother to let it get to me, other than adding my not so humble two cents.

[Dandelionkid]

Originally Posted by ellemenope

I am hearing two things in this thread. The first being that it is ok to send a toddler to preschool when it is a really good school and she is learning a lot. And, the second being, it is ok because it is a nice break for the SAHM.

THe SAHM has one of the hardest jobs in the world. I'm an RN and my part-time job is WAY easier than my role at home. I get regular scheduled breaks at work for one thing. Any SAHM who can afford a break is welcome to it, IMO.

[kcstar]

I think it's a cross between four things:

1) the afore-mentioned "daycare" as "school"

2) Early Intervention / Head Start for difficult situations

Children with special needs can be harmed by waiting until 5 to get help. My brother with Asperger's diagnosed in Kindergarten is nowhere near as sociable as DH's cousin with Asperger's diagnosed about age 2.

Children in poor families may benefit from Head Start programs. Maybe they don't have books at home for Mom & Dad to read to them. Maybe Mom & Dad are working three jobs each just to get by, and by the time they get home are too EXHAUSTED to read a story. Preschool may be the best thing for children in those situations.

3) SAHMs and SAHDs getting a well-deserved break... sometimes in order to allow them to

4) Send the toddler to part-time preschool so the at-home parent has some time to rest while pregnant / focus on just the baby.

------------

In our family, DH stayed home. DH did fine the first two years, when DS largely needed held, fed, burped, and changed... but he DEFINITELY needed a break. We set up one evening a week where DH could go out and I would focus on time with DS. I think it helped keep all of us sane.

As DS got older and needed more structured activities... DH's ADHD made it difficult to provide structure. DS was quite literally wilting from lack of attention, lack of structure, and lack of things to "do". We started DS in two mornings a week of Montessori preschool and a schedule of activities, and the difference is night and day.

Now that DH has a part-time job, it's two days/week. Next year I'd like to try 3 days.

For that matter, there are definite benefits to teaching ASL to developmentally normal babies and toddlers. I also recall a study that showed benefits to songs/games with clapping.

That said, why all this anti-"school" fervor? Most preschools know that music, movement, experience, and fun are the keys to learning. It's not like the preschoolers are spending all day bent over a desk or table!

[grniys]

Originally Posted by ellemenope

I think it is a slap in the face to working moms (assuming that working moms would stay home if they could. And, that is not always true) because it is basically flaunting that not only do you have enough money to SAH, but you also have enough money to put your child in PT care. It is like having your cake and eating it, too.

Eh, well, I really don't care if another mother thinks that me doing what's best for my children, my family and myself is a slap in the face. I would think the wohm needs to work a bit more on feeling better about her life than feeling slapped in the face by me living mine.

There's nothing wrong with working outside the home and putting your kids in daycare, preschool, whatever.

There's nothing wrong with staying home with your kids 24/7 forever.

There's nothing wrong with staying home with your kids but still sending them off to daycare/preschool or just to a sitters occasionally so you don't pull your hair out in frustration because you need a break.

Different strokes for different folks and all that. Personally, I don't think someone who does have the money to stay at home and send their kids to daycare or preschool should feel bad about spending their money on that.

[ellemenope]

Originally Posted by grniys

Eh, well, I really don't care if another mother thinks that me doing what's best for my children, my family and myself is a slap in the face. I would think the wohm needs to work a bit more on feeling better about her life than feeling slapped in the face by me living mine.

There's nothing wrong with working outside the home and putting your kids in daycare, preschool, whatever.

There's nothing wrong with staying home with your kids 24/7 forever.

There's nothing wrong with staying home with your kids but still sending them off to daycare/preschool or just to a sitters occasionally so you don't pull your hair out in frustration because you need a break.

Different strokes for different folks and all that. Personally, I don't think someone who does have the money to stay at home and send their kids to daycare or preschool should feel bad about spending their money on that.

I think that is really well said.

Originally Posted by Dandelionkid

THe SAHM has one of the hardest jobs in the world. I'm an RN and my part-time job is WAY easier than my role at home. I get regular scheduled breaks at work for one thing. Any SAHM who can afford a break is welcome to it, IMO.

Word.

(BTW, to the person who asked, I am a SAHM. I made that pretty clear in my posts in this thread. I hope you read them all and did not just have a knee jerk reaction to a provocative quote out of context.)

Also, I also think I may be a bit jaded by books I have read on the subject. I recommend The Hurried Child and Miseducation: Preschoolers at risk by David Elkind, as well as Holding on to your kids by Gordon Neufeld. I have also read Nurture shock and Einstein never use flashcards, but I can't remember if they covered this or not.

My understanding from my reading is that effects of early childcare on the socio-behavioral development of a child are negative to inconclusive. A study found that children who were in any form of institutional child care were more likely to be aggressive and defiant later in school. That the bump in reading and math skills disapears quickly. That early preschool is most benificial for low income families a la headstart and perhaps harmful in situation where the quality of childcare is lower than the overall parenting. In fact, the inhibition of social and emotional development as a result from early exposure to preschool is most strongly seen in children from the wealthier families.

What struck me most was the hypothesis that pushing kids into peer attachments too early could compromise their later development. It has been observed that children most resistant to being away from their parents and unable to attach to their teacher because of class size experience a great deal of stress. (in fact I read a study that showed children in a daycare setting have much higher cortisol levels by afternoon than children in the home.)

Moreover, children in these social settings swap out their parents as sole authority figures with their peers.

Being a SAHM is exhausting. We live tousands of miles away from nearest relatives. We don't know many people here. DH travels for weeks at a time. (He is gone right now.) I have felt enormous pressure to put DD in some kind of part-time care. Honestly, where I live it is the norm to have your 18 month old go to preschool. I am the abberration. I am on the defense.

With this background and knowledge, and what I see everyday in my community I am frustrated. I just don't like where this is going.

FWIW all the research I have done on preschools in the past have lauded montessori approach and methods. But, I want to emphasize, this discussion is about infant and toddler under 2. I have visited 2 montessori schools that offered a 2YO classroom and was not impressed. However these were not "official" AMI schools. The AMI schools in my area do not offer anything untill 2y8m or 3YO.

[luv_my_babes]

.

Edited by luv_my_babes - 6/12/12 at 11:30am

[bella99]

Well I am a working mom who doesn't have a choice to put my child in daycare. In fact, she's been there since the age of 3 months. She is very well-adjusted, completely delightful, more than adequately attached, and we make decisions regarding her days at daycare along with the staff. That said...

...her daycare is hardly an "institutionalized" setting, which I've seen said in this discussion. That, if anything, is what is offensive. I work in an office of working moms, and I am the only one who's child is not with family members or a parent for childcare, because I have no family in the area. It is what it is. I wish things were different financially, but I don't feel remotely guilty about the decisions we've made, because I have a happy, active, loving little girl.

But were I to become a SAHM? She's still go two days a week, because this is her routine, and it does benefit HER and ME. We do call it school to her, not to anyone else though. The daycare is actually pretty well structured with 3 women there to take care for 11 children. They do specific activities at different times, whether it's crafts, story times, baking activities, etc etc. Its run by members of a religious community in this area who live communally. The daycare is not religious and we chose it because we felt she wouldn't just be take care of, but loved too. And she is. It's certainly not a holding pen.

Families make whatever decisions they feel are right for their family, even if it's sending a 2 or 3 year old to preschool without needing to because they think it will give the kids an "edge" when they are school age. We're all doing the best we can and what we think will be best for our kids.

One of the other children at my daughter's daycare does not work outside of the home or from home, but her daughter, who is 2.5, attends the daycare 5 days a week. Do I wonder why? Sure. Is it a slap in the face to someone like me, who has to put my child in daycare? Nope.

[texmati]

Originally Posted by ellemenope

lol, I feel like I am digging myself a hole here.
.... It is like having your cake and eating it, too.

lol!!! I Just wanted to give you a break from the other side of the fence.

I understand now what you are trying to say in your previous statement. in lower moments, i have thought that about the aforementioned coworker and his wife. Then i remember how little help she has in her husband, family, just any outside support.

The truth is I don't think either one of us would switch places with the other.

[AllyRae]

Originally Posted by ellemenope

My understanding from my reading is that effects of early childcare on the socio-behavioral development of a child are negative to inconclusive. A study found that children who were in any form of institutional child care were more likely to be aggressive and defiant later in school.

I'm a SAHM and don't use childcare, but I have to say, I find it rather odd to call daycare "institutional child care". Typically that term is reserved for orphanages, residential mental health care centers, etc. Children who attend daycare are not institutionalized. My child who spend the first part of her infancy in an overseas orphanage *was* institutionalized at the time. But calling daycare "institutional child care" just puts a very very negative connotation to it, which I'm sure cuts right to the heart for working moms...

[ellemenope]

Originally Posted by AllyRae

I'm a SAHM and don't use childcare, but I have to say, I find it rather odd to call daycare "institutional child care". Typically that term is reserved for orphanages, residential mental health care centers, etc. Children who attend daycare are not institutionalized. My child who spend the first part of her infancy in an overseas orphanage *was* institutionalized at the time. But calling daycare "institutional child care" just puts a very very negative connotation to it, which I'm sure cuts right to the heart for working moms...

I am pretty sure that is the term they used in the book, and in fact, if I remember correctly they qualified it by at least 10 hours a week in a setting with other children and an adult not their parent, in a place not a home.

[momtoS]

I have two daughters and third on the way. My first daughter has some special needs and I was the only one to care for her. She is now in school. My younger daughter is 3.5 years old. I have no babysitter, and haven't for 6 years. I am pregnant and have hyperemesis (although it is getting a bit better), I have an autoimmune thyroid disease, and I am EXHAUSTED.


Normally my youngest and I go to the pool, library, play groups etc.

BUT I can't keep up the pace right now. And I have appointments etc.

So....there is a new preschool (run in an actual school) and I registered her for two mornings a week.....a total of SEVEN hours a week. I book appointments with midwives and doctors and bloodwork etc during that time, do some housework etc.

And yes, for some reason some people feel that SAHM's do not deserve a break. That childcare and housework and cleaning is theirs totally. But if I was WOHM I would get coffee breaks and a one hour lunch break, as well as most of the WOHM's I know have girls night out etc. There is a lot of guilt put on SAHM if they say they need or eeeeekkkkk....if they say they DESERVE a break.

A woman that has children at my daughters school was appalled that I, as a SAHM didn't pick her up for her two breaks during the day and bring her home. (Because, of course I have all the time in the world, after all, all I do is stay at home all day)

So. if I worked outside the home I would get 2- 15 minute breaks a day totalling 2.5 hours a week and an hour lunch a day....totally 5 hours. For a grand total of 7.5 hours.

I, as a SAHM drop my daughter off and pick her up two half days....for a grand total of just under 7 hours a week.

Why is that so so so bad?