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Sending babies/toddlers to preschool: a new trend? - Page 4

post #61 of 124
I forgot to add. That I believe this seven hour a week break will benefit BOTH of us. (This is only our second week into it).

Benefits my daughter....she gets to play with friends, playdough, paint, play outside, try different foods, sing, learn, share etc.

Benefits me ...I get to wait for doctors appointments, and bloodwork without worrying about my daughter, and the germs and stuff in these places, and I know she is in a fun safe place. And maybe once a week....I do get to enjoy lunch alone.....
post #62 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by grniys View Post
Eh, well, I really don't care if another mother thinks that me doing what's best for my children, my family and myself is a slap in the face. I would think the wohm needs to work a bit more on feeling better about her life than feeling slapped in the face by me living mine.

There's nothing wrong with working outside the home and putting your kids in daycare, preschool, whatever.

There's nothing wrong with staying home with your kids 24/7 forever.

There's nothing wrong with staying home with your kids but still sending them off to daycare/preschool or just to a sitters occasionally so you don't pull your hair out in frustration because you need a break.

Different strokes for different folks and all that. Personally, I don't think someone who does have the money to stay at home and send their kids to daycare or preschool should feel bad about spending their money on that.
I agree...I don't think that is every SAHM's responsibility to stay home and never get a break because it is a slap in the face to moms that work outside the home. Do WOHM ever get babysitters to go out in the evening? Or have a girls night out? I don't....and I could say that is a slap in the face to SAHM's.
post #63 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by momtoS View Post
Why is that so so so bad?
Absolutely nothing. I also got HG with my pregnancy. There is no way in the world I could handle that and a toddler.

Also, your DD is 3.5 much older than the 18 month olds I see going to 'preschool' here and what I take most issue with. I think you might be a bit defensive when you do not have to be.

My issues are:

~The trend I see of younger and younger babies being sent to PT daycare from SAHM homes

~The attitude of SAHMs I see (not all) feeling they must put their babies in PT 'preschool' to keep up with the jonses.

~The pressure I feel as a SAHM from society to put DD in preschool at 18 months for socialization and educational benifit, esp when I can't find a study that says that is true.

~And a bit off-topic, my belief that daycare/preschool/childcare has negative effects on young children although it is unavoidable in many situations...

~But that it is ok to send a toddler to preschool when it is a really good school and she is learning a lot, or because it is a nice break for the SAHM.

~That as a society we can't come together to promote solutions to exhausted SAHMs and environments where their young children can learn that do not have possible negative long term effects.

Finally, my extreme empathy for WOHM is perhaps unwarranted. I do tend to over-sympathize. I should not claim to know how a WOHM feels and I am sorry for offending any SAHMs who put their children in daycare PT.
post #64 of 124
Quote:
And yes, for some reason some people feel that SAHM's do not deserve a break. That childcare and housework and cleaning is theirs totally. But if I was WOHM I would get coffee breaks and a one hour lunch break, as well as most of the WOHM's I know have girls night out etc. There is a lot of guilt put on SAHM if they say they need or eeeeekkkkk....if they say they DESERVE a break.
I don't really care what SAHM's do or don't do. I assume they are doing what is best for them and their families. End.of.story.

But just to clarify. I work in social services, foster care to be exact. I don't get a coffee break and I generally eat lunch at my desk or between appointments on the road. I realize that's not true for every WOHM mom, but it is for most I know. I know very few mom's in my circle who get "girls's night out" and I have gotten a babysitter 3 times in my daughter's 22 months (all of which were visiting family members and after she went to bed). All of my free time is spent with my daughter.

Ellemenope, Why do you assume daycare/preschool is harmful across the spectrum? If you don't have any personal experience with your own children? I don't care one iota about what other people decide is good/bad for their own kids, it's none of my business, but I do get bothered when people make statements that what I am doing is harmful to my child, even if I get an excuse since I can't afford to stay home.

It's like the formula/breastfeeding discussion. People talk about how awful/harmful formula is but then say it's ok if someone has a "valid" excuse for doing it. Does anyone think that makes up for essentially telling someone they are harming their kid?

Daycares/preschools are not all created equal for sure, but making generalized assumptions across the board isn't accurate.

I know I am sorting of crashing here, since this is more of a SAHM discussion.
post #65 of 124
Sounds like we're trying to tally up points here, which is so irrelevant in my opinion because everyone has different issues, needs and wants.

Back to the original issues:

Is pre-school marketed as necessary? Of course. We live in a society where everyone is trying to expand business. It is not about if it is right or wrong or better. It is about dollars. Most pre-schools that I am familiar with are "for-profit" businesses. This is further complicated by the issue of what has become acceptable and necessary. We are told pre-school is necessary originally by the actual people marketing it, then as the concept catches on in a more general way, people begin to accept it as the norm. How is this any different than the model of car you drive, the kind of house you live it, the grade of college you attend? We are told that we need vitamins even though we are the most nourished civilization to ever exist in mankind.

DH and I both woh and have spent considerable time and effort in finding the preschool that best fits our philosophies and needs. It is easy to be sucked in by the marketing of certain schools and institutions that are selling a particular product and philosophy. It has been a difficult road for us but we feel confident in our choices...mainly because we have endeavored to educate ourselves on various matters.

Should SAHMs have to justify their need to send their children to preschool? Do SAHMs need to tally the minutes that working people spend on coffee breaks to justify the amount of hours that they send their children to preschool? Why are we having this discussion? Of course they don't need to justify their position. It is not my business nor the business of others to verify the number of hours that a SAH parent needs a break.

Do WOHMs need to feel guilty that their children are in preschool or other care for more than 10 hours a week. No, neither myself nor others need to worry about the studies done which profess negative impacts on children in care other than parents. I don't base my life on studies. There have been been studies that "only children" grow up to be socially deficient. There have been studies that men and women are likely to have affairs in their 40s. There have been studies about every conceivable issue under the sun, yet what it all boils down to is individual circumstances and personal dynamic. When studies are done which include my opinion and experience, then I'll take them more seriously.

So, if you feel that your child (or yourself) will benefit from pre-school, then go for it. If you feel there is no benefit, then for god's sake don't feel pressured into doing it or feel compelled to rend your clothes because somehow you're a deficient parent if you don't. You're a grownup now. You can make your own decisions and take stock in the outcome.
post #66 of 124
If there was a short week or short day 2 year old program in the area, I would have absolutely sent DD. Well, I guess technically she'd start at 1y11m if it was a school-year program. But I fully admit it would be for my benefit. I've got my hands full w/ both kids and I'd love to have some time "off" from toddler duty. I'm not concerned with her learning anything because she loves reading and coloring and learning with her family. And we do plenty of play dates and other activities. I don't know of anyone IRL who has sent a kid younger than 3 to a preschool that wasn't really a day care.
post #67 of 124
CatsCradle....
post #68 of 124
I guess I thought I could have an opinion based on books and studies I have read, make a decision for myself and family, share my beliefs without passing judgment on other moms here, and worry about the direction I see this society going regarding the subject.

This discussion is the third rail of MDC! beware.
post #69 of 124
I do sometimes wonder if sending kids off to some highly popular daycare/preschool is becoming the "In" thing to do.

The way I see it, though, is if the mom wants/needs some time for herself, then she should probably take it. If it means that she will be in a better place emotionally/physically for her child, then that surely must be a good thing.

post #70 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemenope View Post
Also, I also think I may be a bit jaded by books I have read on the subject. I recommend The Hurried Child and Miseducation: Preschoolers at risk by David Elkind, as well as Holding on to your kids by Gordon Neufeld. I have also read Nurture shock and Einstein never use flashcards, but I can't remember if they covered this or not.
Maybe you need to expand your reading list a bit. I suggest Sarah Hrdy including Mothers and Others.
post #71 of 124
Quote:
I guess I thought I could have an opinion based on books and studies I have read, make a decision for myself and family, share my beliefs without passing judgment on other moms here, and worry about the direction I see this society going regarding the subject.

This discussion is the third rail of MDC! beware.

LOL! There's no shame in having an opinion. I've just find truth in experience, rather than truth in things which are based on samplings of the population which may or may not have a biased foundation. I just find it humorous that myself or the moms that I know have never been part of these "findings" which seem to dictate the directions that many parents base their opinion on. I mean, there are books and philosophies out there that are completely counter to what I feel is right and just. Like you, I listen and apply according to what I feel is appropriate in a parenting sense and a practical sense. There are things that feel wrong...there are things that feel right...then there are things which require compromise and we adjust our lives accordingly.
post #72 of 124
I was sent to PT preschool at 3, and I'm in my 30s. I don't think this is a new trend at all. I think the age has been pushed back a bit, but 3yo preschool (not daycare) wasn't that unusual 30 years ago, at least where I grew up. I know a lot of people my age who had 2 years. Also, if you're in an area with public preK, sending at 3 makes even more sense.

My daughter just started preschool. She'll be 4 in January. I would have liked to send her last year, but it wasn't possible for several reasons. Based on how much she loves it now, I think it would have been good for her last year too, but water under the bridge. She loves the variety of activities, the projects, the other kids (she's an only). It's a nice change of pace, and it's only a 3 hour session. Her preschool also does extended day and FT daycare, and sometimes I wish she stayed longer because she has such a good time! I only put her in 3 mornings a week because I thought it would be too much, but she begs to go and I'm thinking of moving her up to 5 mornings.
post #73 of 124
We kind of laugh when neighbors call daycare for their 1yo school, or when daycare parents call my mom's day care (at her home) school. It's really something that's developed recently; no one called her business school back in the day. I just see school as something very different. I suppose if a bigger sibling is going to "real" school then a little kid might like to call their daycare school, but that's not the case with most of the people we hear this from; it's all first babies. Just a trend, it seems to us!

Now there are actually preschools around here-- really daycares-- that stress a curriculum for even what I consider babies. That's definitely part of the hothousing parenting where there's crazy pressure put on kids-- I've seen kids having nervous breakdowns by 9th grade b/c of the pressure! And now it's starting with real instruction every day for babies. Wild!
post #74 of 124
lol nevermind.
post #75 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Margaret View Post
We kind of laugh when neighbors call daycare for their 1yo school, or when daycare parents call my mom's day care (at her home) school. It's really something that's developed recently; no one called her business school back in the day. I just see school as something very different. I suppose if a bigger sibling is going to "real" school then a little kid might like to call their daycare school, but that's not the case with most of the people we hear this from; it's all first babies. Just a trend, it seems to us!

Now there are actually preschools around here-- really daycares-- that stress a curriculum for even what I consider babies. That's definitely part of the hothousing parenting where there's crazy pressure put on kids-- I've seen kids having nervous breakdowns by 9th grade b/c of the pressure! And now it's starting with real instruction every day for babies. Wild!
I do agree that some people call daycare's school. I think it is more for the child's sake...it makes them feel older. (I can not speak for first children). My daugther's preschool actually follows the JK curriculum but at a very relaxed pace.

She is 3.5 and will start school next year, but she is a spring baby and will be one of the oldest in her class at 4.5 years old. (Children can start JK at 3 here as long as their birthday is before Dec 31). So sending her two mornings a week at 3.5 years isn't that much earlier than some children start full time school.
post #76 of 124
This is probably going to get me flamed but don't you think young children need to be with there primary caregiver (usually mommy) most of the time? Believe me, I really really understand the need for a break but isn't more than an hour a week with non-family and large child to adult ratio excessive?

I feel like this is part of our culture's overall problem of pushing kids to grow up and be away from their parents to fast. Also I really dislike how there is a special class for children and adults go do something different. Children need to stay with their adults as we go about our day so they can learn from us how to be an adult. I think if you need a break it would be better to leave them with daddy or grandma or a good friend for a bit so they still get that interaction with the adult world. I apologize if I have offended anyone but it really makes me cringe sending children to daycare, preschool, even elementary school. Now flame away.
post #77 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karamom View Post
This is probably going to get me flamed but don't you think young children need to be with there primary caregiver (usually mommy) most of the time? Believe me, I really really understand the need for a break but isn't more than an hour a week with non-family and large child to adult ratio excessive?

I feel like this is part of our culture's overall problem of pushing kids to grow up and be away from their parents to fast. Also I really dislike how there is a special class for children and adults go do something different. Children need to stay with their adults as we go about our day so they can learn from us how to be an adult. I think if you need a break it would be better to leave them with daddy or grandma or a good friend for a bit so they still get that interaction with the adult world. I apologize if I have offended anyone but it really makes me cringe sending children to daycare, preschool, even elementary school. Now flame away.
Well it really depends on whose book you're reading.

My perspective is that the importance of the primary caregiver (mother) has been completely overstated since the artificial era of the 1950s nuclear family - a VERY brief period of time. I honestly think that while AP certainly challenges us to be present for our kids and recognize the importance of a breastfeeding relationship in the first (and beyond) year that the emphasis on the mother as sole caregiver is actually a kind of feminist backlash movement that comes out of the societal trend to isolate mothers and families.

And I actually think this is very very much a consumer-driven trend because a solitary mother is much more likely to spend on consumer goods to entertain baby, to make her sacrifice worthwhile (from electronic toys to expensive Waldorf-type goodies), to keep her home immaculate, etc.

In the past young babies would likely have been cared for by in poor people's cases the extended family - aunts, grandmothers, older siblings - and by servants in the upper classes. Going back further I think Sarah Hrdy makes a really good case for alloparenting in primates.

When you talk about family I think you fall into the "I could never leave my child with a stranger" fallacy. There is certainly substandard care out there but I honestly think from my experience and from others' that someone who is trained to provide care, motivated to choose childcare as a profession, and who is educated and experienced in childcare -- plus has good qualities which is where selection comes into play -- is probably a much higher-quality caregiver than a lot of family members might be.

Sure, we pay them. But anyone who's had a great paid caregiver knows that just because someone is getting paid doesn't mean they care less about our kids. And sometimes it's really nice because they also follow instructions to keep our kids' food, etc., more consistent.

So...no, if you're asking does everyone in the world believe that is a proven fact? I don't. I say that from Canada where I have the luxury of mat leave for a year, which I think is a good length of time to work these things out. But really I don't think it's given that 23/7 with mom is always the best, no. I think we completely miss the boat on what "attachment" means.

Now obviously we can point to extremes - and there are bad/poor care situations, long long hours in care (like 12 a day), etc. But I could also point to extremely poor SAH care. So I try not to. I also don't find studies that conclusive - most have shown it's a wash entirely dependent on quality of care.

IMO a good bond with mum and dad AND good bonds with other people makes for great attachmentS. For me it's like how you tell siblings "love is not a cup of sugar that gets used up."

ETA: Just wanted to add that I don't think being home with mum is a bad idea either. To me it's like being an only child or being 1 of 8 - different families, same growing up. It's more about what works for that particular family.
post #78 of 124
GuildJenn - You rock.
post #79 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karamom View Post
I apologize if I have offended anyone but it really makes me cringe sending children to daycare, preschool, even elementary school. Now flame away.
I'm not going to flame you but I do think you need to broaden your world view a bit.

And, wow, this is the second time I've seen the Mommy Wars extended into the elementary school years. The first time was when a coworker said people send their kids to public school instead of homeschooling because they are just lazy

post #80 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karamom View Post
This is probably going to get me flamed but don't you think young children need to be with there primary caregiver (usually mommy) most of the time? Believe me, I really really understand the need for a break but isn't more than an hour a week with non-family and large child to adult ratio excessive?
.
ONE HOUR A WEEK? Really? I have my 3.5 year old in preschool two mornings a week...for a total of slightly under 7 hours a week (this is her second week in preschool and she loves it). Yesterday was one of those days. I went to my older daughter's IEP meeting at the school. Then a midwifes appointment then some groceries. Then I picked her up.

I use this 7 hours wisely and pick things to do that aren't that much fun for a 3. 5year old. Like bloodwork, appointments, paying bills, groceries etc.

I spent the past 6 years without ONE hour a week to do stuff without children.....and let me tell I am a much better mom now that I have a bit of a break and can plan stuff both with and without dd.

Even as a super mom, less than one hour a week with NO children does take its toll.

Do you bring your children to every appointment, grocery shopping, showering, bathing, errands etc? Do you ever feel the need to have a break?
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