When to start saying "No"

[colsxjack]

At what age do you start saying NO to your children? And when you do say "No", should you always stick to it?

Our DD is only just 14 months old. At this point we do not really say no to her, or not let her do something, unless of course it is dangerous.
But I have been thinking of this for a bit now. I do not want to create a situation where my DD learns that all she has to do is whine a bit and she can get what she wants.

At this point she also doesn't like being denied anything. And she will have a little tantrum if she feels denied. We just use distraction, or if it really isn't a big deal we just let her do it/have it/whatever.

She is a very passionate child. So if she is frustrated or angry it is a very loud and passionate display. (she is just as passionate with happiness).

At this point I am happy with distraction or letting her do what she wants if it isnt too disruptive, distructive or dangerous. But I am aware that at some point I should start saying no and sticking to it. I feel she is starting to kinda be getting to the age/understanding of reasoning or explaining. But she is not quite there yet.

One example. If we are eating dinner, sometimes she is done before us. We want her to stay at the table with us if possible. She has recently taken to wanting to put her feet up on the table or against the table. We tell her that feet are not for putting up on the table and that we don't do that. That seems to make her want to do it more. If I push the feet off she screams and puts them back. If I push her seat away from the table she screams and gets frustrated and tries to reach the table with them. I either let her down from the table, or have also been known to just let her do it it really isn't that bad and she has lots of time to learn table etiquette.

Basically, I am still at the stage of either giving in or distracting her with something else to stave off a tantrum. Should I be sticking to my "no's" at this point? I mean, if she doesnt want to hold my hand when crossing the street I make her or pick her right up. But for the non dangerous stuff, I almost always give in or just distract her with a cool toy or something else fun.

[LynnS6]

Distraction is making your 'no' stick.

As for giving in, you have to decide how important it is to you and be consistent for each behavior. I don't think it's wise to never change your mind. Sometimes you say 'no' and realize that you don't really care or it's really not that dangerous.

But, if you say 'no' once to chewing on the edge of the table (for example), and allow it after a 'no' another time, then she gets to play 'mommy roulette'. Will mommy say no? Will she let me? It's a great 'game' and will increase the behavior in question. In that case, you're better off either deciding that you don't care about teeth marks, or always distracting her. Consistency is key.

The other thing is to not give in just because you don't want a tantrum. As a parent of your toddler, one of your 'jobs' is to help her learn that she can live through a mild disappointment and come through on the other side. This lesson is particularly important for spirited kids to learn. They feel things sooo deeply it's hard to get over them. I had an incident with dd just this evening (and she's 6).

Finally, I would use the actual word 'no' rarely. I tried to reserve it for times when I needed to make a quick point (as in ds was about to stick his finger on the hot griddle). Otherwise, I tried to use words that told the child what to do. "Stop!" is more effective than 'no'. "Keep your feet down" is more effective than saying "don't put your feet on the table." The fewer negatives and the more descriptive statements you use, the easier it is for your child to comprehend. It also gives your child something new to think about.

As for staying at the table with you -- I wouldn't fight that battle till she's about 3 or 4. Our kids were always allowed to get down as soon as they were finished. They're 6 and 9 now and sit quite nicely through dinner. But a 14 month old can't really converse with you, so what can she do in her chair while you're eating and she's bored?

[colsxjack]

Thanks.

And yes, I agree that she is way too young to be expected to stay at the table with us. We just keep her there as long as she is content to be there. As soon as she wants down or tells us she is finished we let her down. But if she doesn't tell us she is finished by either signing or screaming, we keep her with us as long as it is more relaxing and fun.

I really do not mind her having her feet on the dinner table. But sometimes I think that others would find it rude and I am expected to teach her table etiquette at some point. So I will try the advice to let the things that don't bother us slide and have firmer boundaries when we do set "rules".

I think you are right that I need to let her (and us) live through her tantrums.
It is difficult though because a) she is sooo loud and has stamina and b) we have spent her short 14 months trying to cater to her needs and taking her crying as a sign of her need to be held, rocked, soothed, have attention, etc. It is hard now to just let her cry and do nothing to try to make it better.

But at the same time. I do not want to create a situation where she will just tantrum and up the ante every time she doesn't get her way.

We do try to empathize with and name her emotions, but then distract. Such as if she wants to go outside and walk up and down the sidewalk but we just came in and it is time to eat or something. She will scream, and then cry all sad like, and we will say something like "I know you are mad, and it is frustrating because you really want to go outside. But you will have to wait for another time because right now is dinner time". Of course she just continues to cry or scream because she is 14 months old. So then I am just like "WOW, lets go see if we can race the cars over to the dinner table" or something like that and she usually pretty easily gets distracted and goes and finds something else of interest.

[OkiMom]

Two things that stuck out in your response. One it is really young to be teaching table manners. My 21 month old went through a stage of putting her feet on the table if she wasn't eating, I let it pass. Now she doesn't, she eventually grew out of it. Just like my now 3 1/2 year old eventually learned to use a fork and spoon even though at 2 she absolutely refused to. Id save yourself the frustration (unless its a safety thing) until she is older/more able to understand. Two- with tantrums just because you can't give them what they want doesn't mean you can't do anything. With my first she wanted a hug and comfort when she was mad so I alway gave her a little extra cuddle. She still didn't get what she wanted originally but I didn't just not do anything. Now my second, she doesn't want to have anyone near her when shes mad and will hit/bite if you get near her. So with her I sit near by (but not where she can touch me) and do an activity with my oldest until she has calmed down. She can see me/knows Im there and when she wants comfort she comes and gets me. Again, Im not really doing nothing (Im making myself accessible and she knows Im there for comfort) but at the same time respecting the fact shes mad. Its really having to know what is comforting for your child. My oldest would get distracted after a hug and a kiss, it makes my younger one really mad to have someone try to distract her and she gets louder/goes on for a longer time. She has to decide she wants to do something else, she is wonderfully stubborn just like her mommy.

As for No, I save them for when it either is a safety issues for someone or if it will damage someone's property. For example, my children aren't allowed to chew on the furniture since their sharp teeth would ruin the table/couch whatever. Ill tell them No and give them a suggestion for what to chew instead (I have a box of chew toys they can chew on or they can chew on a stuffed animal). Anything thats dangerous gets an automatic no and removal from whatever it is. Im not going to even risk having something happen by trying to distract first. By dangerous I don't mean though having her hand hurt (like from dropping a book on it) I mean like closing a door/toy chest where it can truely damage her hand or trying to grab an stove burner/the oven door while its hot.

[dakotablue]

I think however that she is the age where boundaries can be set. The wait one minute and I'll get to you, that is not a toy you can play with. Don't do X, remove them if they do X.

I personally think some tantrums are checking boundaries, what happens if I do X? I always follow with empathy and I am sorry that you can't do that but this is the rule.

My DS is 11 months and he has been testing. The main way I know...I'll tell him no to do something (like bang on the keyboard) he'll look at me, look at the keyboard and bang on it. Another warning. He'll do it again. Then I remove him from the computer (I go with him) He cries, when he sees we're not going back he moves on quickly. Where as tired tantrums he needs hugs and cuddles, hes frustrated and its...just different.

I think this can vary child to child with their level of communication skills. DS has 5 words he used consistently already and follows basic and some complicated demands (like get me the diaper off the floor, walks over picks up and gives it to me, without my pointing)

I am all for choosing your battles, but consistency and boundaries are needed. DS is at the age where I know he understands don't and tries to see what happens. I just don't use 'don't' very often (maybe 1-2x a day if that)

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by colsxjack

I think you are right that I need to let her (and us) live through her tantrums.
It is difficult though because a) she is sooo loud and has stamina and b) we have spent her short 14 months trying to cater to her needs and taking her crying as a sign of her need to be held, rocked, soothed, have attention, etc. It is hard now to just let her cry and do nothing to try to make it better.

Yes, it is hard to shift gears. At the same time, you don't have to 'just let her cry and do nothing'. It depends on her temperament. For our older child, we did have to just be nearby and let him get it out. Any attempt at interaction or cuddling would have sent him over the edge. So, we let him get it out of his system, and then we cuddled. For our younger child, she needed to be cuddled to recover.

Tantrums = loss of emotional control, and at this age she's going to rely on you to help get her emotions under control. It'll take a little trial and error to figure out if that 'help' is you remaining calmly in the background or you actively engaging her. You can tend to a child without 'giving in' to a tantrum. I don't believe in ignoring a tantrum, unless I've tried everything and it's not helping.

[Just1More]

I haven't read all the responses...

Try separating language development from behavior development in your mind. If you say "no" and don't mean it, then you are teaching her an incorrect definition of the word "no". You wouldn't think of picking up a banana and saying "apple", so don't say "no" when you really mean "I would rather you not, but I really don't care."

So, if putting her feet on the table is an okay thing, then it needs to be an okay thing. If it isn't, then don't let her. (I don't make issues of that sort of thing with my really little ones, but...). I would caution you against taking her out of her seat everytime she does it, though. If the conversation goes like this...

"Down!"
"We're eating. Stay at the table."
"Done!"
"We're still eating. We'll get you down in a minute."
Etc.

And then she puts her feet on the table, and you take her feet down and say no. Then she screams. Then you say no screaming. And she puts her feet back. And you get her down...

What happened? She told you she wanted down. You said no. She put ehr feet on the table, expressing her displeasure. She is learning that if she continues to push you, you will give up and give in. I'm not imputing that level of sneaky to a 14mo old. I'm saying that doing things that way sets up a pattern for them to follow as they grow.

My point is that your words and actions DO mean things, and the consequences of how you interact NOW will matter in the long run.

Simply put, don't say it if you don't mean it...in words OR body language.

[DevaMajka]

With both my kids, I started saying "no" (or the equivalent) at about 12 mos- as soon as they could understand a little bit of what we said. However, when I say no/don't/stop, I don't necessarily expect that they will comply on their own. (Here's an article that explains it well, Imo: Toddler Testing)

My "no's" consist of:
1. being specific about what not to do - Don't throw food on the floor.
2. Explain why - It makes a mess. (when they're older I expand on that and add "I have to clean it up, and that takes time and effort." but at this point, I think it's just about letting them know that you have a reason, even if they don't understand it)
3. Give a Yes (aka acceptable alternative)- This is sort of divided into 2 parts. A) honor the impulse. What is the impulse behind the behavior? In my case, it could be either that he doesn't want to eat the food, or that he wants to play/experiment with the food. B) Redirect in a way that honors the impulse. "If you don't want the food, you can put it on the table (I tap the table) or put it in my hand (I hold my hand out)"

Imo, it's super important to give a related "yes."

As far as sticking to the no, I think it depends.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to change your mind with new information. Maybe you didn't realize how important it was to dd to let her do x. You might decide that it's more important to her to do it, than it is to you for her to not do it. In that case, I'd say something like "I didn't realize it was so important to you. I've changed my mind- you can keep doing it." or something that conveys the idea that you changed your mind, but NOT just to quiet her whining.
Imo, this is a good way to teach kids that you are willing to work with them. For ds1, it progressed to him finding solutions that I didn't (ie "Stop blowing that whistle!" "What if I go in my room and blow it under my blankets?" He knows I'll change my mind if we come up with a solution that works for both of us.

I also think it's a good idea to give optional requests. This would be stuff that you don't really want them to do, but that's not the hill you want to die on, so to speak. Say it in a way that conveys that it's optional: "I'd rather you not do x" or "Ideally you'd stop x" (I say these things in a boring, almost silly voice). For me, this would be something like playing in the dirt of the potted plants. It's not really hurting anything, but I want him to know that it's easier for me if he doesn't. For you, this could be the feet on the table.
For ds1, this seemed to help him develop impulse control from within- he has the option to do x or not, he knows why I want him not to, but he knows I won't be upset if he continues. Nowadays, he tends to not do these things, unless he finds a solution that I'd be happy with.

It is, however, also important to not change your mind to get dc to stop crying, yelling, whining, etc. If it happens occasionally, it won't matter much. But it's a bad habit to get into.

I would totally not make rules about things like manners at this age. All of our no's are safety related, or something that truly makes a difference for us. (The only non-negotiable rule that isn't a safety thing is that ds2 isn't allowed to climb on the table while we're eating).