Frustrated with 11yo son see post# 33 for update - Page 2

[LilMamiBella]

Originally Posted by D_McG

Agree. Respectfully, it is not his fault that he is unable to complete the schooling choices you have made on his behalf, you know? 5 hours per day in front of a computer is just ludicrous for an 11 year old. It's nothing he would face in a regular school. And with good reason! It's not age appropriate.

I've said already above that the school requires 5 hours but it really doesn't take that long to finish work. For today he actually had two subjects to do. He finished in two hours. He then has to work on an science experiment later when dh gets home. That shouldn't take but 30 mins. The only reason why it could take longer is when he plays around, searches other websites like ebay, plays action figures, even gets up and goes outside, or says that everything is too hard and refuses to do it.
I agree that by taking stuff away he has nothing to look forward to. I need ideas as to what to do to get him to stop harassing his sisters every day and arguing all the time.

[LilMamiBella]

He has been in traditional schooling from k- middle of 3rd grade. He was bringing home notes from the teacher every day about his behavior and how he harasses other kids or not paying attention in class. He had maybe one friend. I invited all the kids from his class (per class rules) to his party and no one showed up! The teacher also wanted him on meds.

[Melanie_7773]

OP, it sounds to me like your son is being expected to take full responsiblity for his education. And rather suddenly, at that.

I fully believe that children of that age often *can* take on much of the responsibility for their own learning, but the environment in which that happens looks a LOT different than "here's some books/computer course, go plow through it, I'll be in the other room if you have a question". Day after day. Wow. That would take a lot of initiative for anyone, irrespective of age. Especially if there are portions of the curriculum that he's not particularly interested in, which is likely. I don't know many adults who could stick with that kind of program for long, especially in the absence of a very clear personal goal. (Their own personal goal. Not one someone else set for them.)

The thought of giving up the virtual school and having to find books/curriculum for him that will work sounds very stressful.

I agree. That's why I don't homeschool.

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by LilMamiBella

He has been in traditional schooling from k- middle of 3rd grade. He was bringing home notes from the teacher every day about his behavior and how he harasses other kids or not paying attention in class. He had maybe one friend. I invited all the kids from his class (per class rules) to his party and no one showed up! The teacher also wanted him on meds.

He wasn't on meds then, but is now?
His school experience might be very different now, on meds.

[sunnmama]

I'll add that we've homeschooled (just K and 1st), and we do traditional school (2-4th), and each of those has had pros and cons--but have been doable and child-friendly. 3-5 hours working independently sounds neither doable nor child-friendly for an 11 yo, imo. I'd choose school in a heartbeat--where my child has access to adults whose job it is to provide help, supervision, interaction, and age appropriate activities all day long--over 5 hours of independent work on a computer.

[Mackenzie]

I still contend, as I did before, that the schooling style you have chosen for him is simply not a good fit and he is being punished for it... In multiple ways now...

[LilMamiBella]

Originally Posted by D_McG

Are you opposed to traditional schooling? From what you've written it sounds like a much better fit.

His behavior/school work is not improving even with meds. It's why Im here. The dr will not suggest/ do anything about it till we see him in a few weeks.
I asked ds if he wanted to go to public school and he said no. I checked the schools website and it starts from 8-3:10. He would have to get up at 6:30 am. He gets a 30 min lunch break. He has I think 3-4 locker changes. He won't get any hand holding from the teachers there. I can't see how behavior+ grades would improve there. don't forget he'd have homework in addition to everything else he needs to do.

I keep saying this and I feel like no one see this: I won't make him sit for 5 hours even if he were to get his work done in 30 mins! Today it took 2 hours and I marked 5 hours attendance. Tomorrow I think he has 3 subjects to do. It usually requires reading a story and/or watching a video. He might then need to answer questions in his notebook followed by a little quiz of usually 3-6 questions.

[zebra15]

Originally Posted by LilMamiBella

His behavior/school work is not improving even with meds. It's why Im here. The dr will not suggest/ do anything about it till we see him in a few weeks.
I asked ds if he wanted to go to public school and he said no. I checked the schools website and it starts from 8-3:10. He would have to get up at 6:30 am. He gets a 30 min lunch break. He has I think 3-4 locker changes. He won't get any hand holding from the teachers there. I can't see how behavior+ grades would improve there. don't forget he'd have homework in addition to everything else he needs to do.

I keep saying this and I feel like no one see this: I won't make him sit for 5 hours even if he were to get his work done in 30 mins! Today it took 2 hours and I marked 5 hours attendance. Tomorrow I think he has 3 subjects to do. It usually requires reading a story and/or watching a video. He might then need to answer questions in his notebook followed by a little quiz of usually 3-6 questions.

HI,
I know you are struggling and I just wanted to give you a 'view' of what middle school looks like
8-310
8-815 home room
820-930 math
935-1045 science
1050-1200 english
12-1245 lunch/recess/'travel time'
1250-200 history
2-300 specials (PE/technology/art/music/library/studyhall)
300-310 homeroom

Keep in mind the first few mins of each class is getting settled, attendance, bell work, etc and the last few mins is wrap up, homework reminders etc so even tho' they are 70 mins classes its more of a 60 mins lesson and in that 60 mins the teachers break the class into 15 mins sections. So 15 mins of review of yesterday. 15 mins of new work, 15 mins of group work and 15 mins to start todays homework. So with the school publishing hours of "8-310" there is really learning time of maybe 4 hrs max, and that is on a very good day.

If your son needs help there are ways to get it for him. Teacher conferences, IEP's, Behavior plans, homework planners (charts where students write down the homework and teachers/parents inital daily). Many things can be worked into the day for kids who need a little extra 'boost'.

I homeschool as well but I work in the public school system. You son sounds like he may need some 1:1 time and more time to adjust to the new virtual school. Vitrual schools and online learning isn't for every student. Somekids need to use books. Missing out on classes and activites probably wont help the current situation for your DS.

Has your DS had an educational/learning profile done? What the profile will show is how your DS learns and what methods to use for teaching him. You need to know how he learns, so you can find a program that works for him.

[bonamarq]

12 minutes - that's the attention span of a middle schooler WITHOUT ADHD

so that means they stop attending, usually self regulate in some manner - and re-attend

You are expecting too much self-regulation and initiative for your 11 yo son with attention problems - what to do? there are many different approaches you can take - check out some self monitoring strategies and rather than punish him for what he is not capable of doing - restructure his day - teachers have to be very focused on keeping kids on task and that is what you will have to do - try to be as positive and up beat as possible - give him ample time to complete segments and then check on him - LET him get up and do a chore or 'play' in the bathroom - don't take away the productive classes but do limit other free choice activities until agreed upon assignments are done - above all problem solve together so you are all on the same page -

When you plant lettuce, if it does not grow well, you don't blame the lettuce. You look into the reasons it is not doing well. It may need fertilizer, or more water, or less sun. You never blame the lettuce.

Thich Nhat Hanh

It seems to me you are blaming the lettuce

[thehighernest]

Mama, it seems you're having a hard time, and your son is having a hard time. I don't have an 11 year old myself, so my suggestions are purely philosophical (though I have taught middle school children), but I'm trying to brainstorm anything that might be helpful.

I like that lettuce thing a pp posted. I'd never heard it put that way. Of course, the thing with lettuce is you can't ask it WHY it's not growing - but you can a human being. It sounds from some of your posts that you've tried to do this, but what he needs/wants and what you can/want to give don't match up. Can there be a compromise? If he is saying that he wants you to sit with him through all the questions, could you come up with some schedule where you, say, for two weeks, check 3/4 of them, then scale it down to half, etc.? It could even be turned into a challenge: let's see how many you can do on your own this week, etc.

I think I'm hearing you say that you're not even asking for 5 hours a day - and that the work could maybe only take as many as 2 hours. Okay. Still, does it have to be 2 hours non-stop? Could you do what was suggested earlier with a timer and break things down into 20 minute segments, with breaks to go outside, etc.? You mentioned he likes to help around the house. Maybe he could use his breaks to help around the house even more, and maybe that would make him feel more useful, more a part of the family, and not so at odds with you?

I ask this latter question because you also mention the problem with his sister and asked for suggestions. I don't think anyone can give you any until you get to the bottom of WHY he acts that way toward her. Have you asked him this? Is he maybe feeling jealousy for some reason? Does he notice a difference in the way he is treated versus the way she is treated? Maybe getting to the root of that would also help with the school issues.

{When all is said and done, it may turn out that virtual school is not for him, unschooling is not for him, and traditional schooling is not for him. Is there maybe a public Montessori program where you live, if you cannot afford a private one? It may be a good fit for him since it encourages moving around, choosing one's own work, etc.} - OOPS - I just remember that your DS is 11, so Montessori is probably not an option, as it's usually just geared to elementary grades...

[Marsupialmom]

Which virtual school are you using?

Seriously, 5 hours is a lot. We looked through stuff to figure out what was busy work and skipped if they got the important stuff done - RIGHT.

We also did a little tough love. You can make things last as little or as long as you want. School can be all day or 1 hour it is your choice. Do the assignment right the first time get you all the freedom you want.

I have 3 children. 2 of them gave me a handful of long days. 1........well she spent months learning this concept. It was a struggle with her but worth the battle. She sees her friend suffering. She will be the first one to tell them to shut up, sit down, quit whining it gets done and then we can go have fun. She has decided to go to school and actually thanked me for teaching her this .

When we tried to break the work up into chunks we got more struggles because they were always having to stop doing what they wanted. At the end of the day work wasn't done so it was a battle. We spent more time schooling and trying to get them directed on school. Getting up, getting fed, doing school work out of the way made the rest of the day so much easier. You need to check his work before you allow him to get up. If he has any hyperfocus issue please touch into that! Make a negative into a positive for you guys. Once he is done, he is done. This will make his life nag free and maximize the time he has to do what HE wants.

My children do not have ADHD, but honestly I think you need to monitor him a lot more closely than what you realize. There minds are starting to change and enter puberty. They are flaky, but can be fun.

Ignore the whine, just move on. It is part of his age.

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by LilMamiBella

I agree that by taking stuff away he has nothing to look forward to. I need ideas as to what to do to get him to stop harassing his sisters every day and arguing all the time.

Have you started to spend more time with him on school work? One of your previous posts suggested that he does his school work alone while you focus on his sister's work. Have you changed that? One major reason children (even almost teens) act up is because they see their siblings getting all the attention. Acting up gets them attention and even negative attention beats no attention.

[LilMamiBella]

Originally Posted by sewchris2642

Have you started to spend more time with him on school work? One of your previous posts suggested that he does his school work alone while you focus on his sister's work. Have you changed that? One major reason children (even almost teens) act up is because they see their siblings getting all the attention. Acting up gets them attention and even negative attention beats no attention.

Dh has really stepped up and has gotten the kids up earlier so that we both can help the kids out before he leaves. Any experiments that I hate doing; he'll do with the kids. Its a relief because school is going much faster. The past few days they've gotten done around 11am. Before he started helping us, I was helping each kid one at a time and it was taking forevvvvvvveeeeerrrr! I'm hopeful that things will be better now that I have help. I plan to put him back in dance and let him take a break from guitar for a month. He is still practicing guitar though and that's fine. I talked with him yesterday about different punishments we could instead of taking away things. We joked about him picking up leaves by hand lol
I want to keep up with Connections Academy and see how it works now with DH helping us every day and then decide if we want to change what we're doing or not. I think he was acting up over the attention I was giving to his sisters. I wasn't raised with my siblings but I imagine that it would've been some teasing/fighting. I'm not expecting perfect behavior.
Hopefully the Dr will also help us figure out what to do about the meds he's taking.

[4evermom]

Glad to hear it's going better!

With regards to punishment, probably the best route would be something that made sense, logically. Like doing something nice for his sister if he's been mean. Cleaning something if he made more work for you by purposefully messing something up. That sort of thing instead of taking away something. If he were in school, he'd have gym and music as classes. So you might want to think of his hip hop and guitar as phys ed and music rather than a special treat to take away, just because he enjoys them. Have the consequences make sense and be logical and they won't cause as much resentment. Then he can continue to mature and you can have a relationship with him without resentment becoming a barrier to either.

[ErinYay]

I would also look at the real price of punishments in the long-run- taking away lessons could impact him for the rest of his life in terms of his skill set, abilities, and opportunities, whereas even picking up leaves by hand might tick him off, but is unlikely to stay with him forever.