What's the trick to motherhood? - Page 2

[NellieKatz]

When I read your original post, the FIRST thing that jumped out at me was your goal of "well behaved kids." When that is the starting point, LOL, it's all downhill from there! Seriously, been there, done that. "Well behaved" is a result that comes from other stuff being done and other stuff being the priority. When good behavior is the stated goal, then the only next step is coercion...like I said, downhill. :-)

So I'd start with an answer to your original question as follows: The trick to motherhood is being able to see the world from your child's perspective. Developmentally appropriate, loving, compassionate, listening & understanding. There is a lot that LOOKS like "bad behavior" and it embarrasses the socks off of us (believe me, I KNOW it!) but none of that external stuff will change unless the child's developmentally appropriate (<==emphasize that) NEEDS are met. Note how I didn't say their "stated wants" are met. I said their needs. Often, little kids cannot communicate their needs so it's up to us to decode their actions and their words until they are good at it. Like, they will scream for a toy in the store and we label them "bad" and we are mortified and we come down real hard on them, and the next thing we know the connection between us & our kids is in tatters. Sometimes they scream for one thing or they act out in some way, and they are really trying to get a totally different need met. That's when we have to be real smart and not focus on the behavior itself, but what the child might be trying to tell us in their haven't-been-on-earth-very-long kind of way.

Hope that helps!

[NellieKatz]

To elaborate on that last point, I have a friend who has 4 kids and they are the sweetest, most gentle, caring, well behaving kids....so I watch her VERY carefully to see what it is she does with them (I came from an authoritarian family so I have to watch other, peaceful families very closely to see how it's done.) And she is as gentle and caring with them as could possibly be. She doesn't bark orders; she is kind and considerate, and makes requests, not demands; she is very attentive (they are eclectic homeschoolers so the kids have the freedom to be engaged in activities that are appropriate for them as individuals and for their age & interest level....that helps a LOT with peaceful kids....not being squashed like a square peg in a round hole all day which is how it can probably feel to some kids in a school setting....but I digress)

So yeah, find moms whose kids are real sweet & who perhaps you want to emulate, and watch those moms. I couldn't do it without the good moms that are all around me, serving as role models. The moms who rule with an iron fist, however....those ones might just have "well behaved" kids because the kids are afraid. That is how it was in my house growing up. I'd rather do it another way, you know?

[kcparker]

My first thought in response to your title was "one foot in front of the other, and remember to keep breathing."

My disclaimer: I think I have pretty easy kids.
But here's what works best for us:
1. even with the 3 year old, distraction and redirection are still great - I think skillful parents are like aikido practitioners - you just move the energy where you want it to go.
2. games - Set up a situation where you are in control, and they are having fun and are focused. Play Red Light-Green Light or Mother May I? when they are out on bikes, bring semaphore flags or pretend to be the drag-racing lady with the scarves. I play really stupid games like "Assembly Line Guy" and just make lots of sound effects when we have to pick up blocks, or I tell DS that I bet I can pick them up faster than he can. The Giant Robot (he stands on my feet and I walk) is good for getting him into the bathroom to brush teeth. Anything to make him more engaged and giggly is generally a winner.
3. Set aside your own preconceptions about what 'should' be going on when it's not a matter of health/safety. I let my 3 year old help with cooking a lot. I have to consciously say to myself, "There WILL be flour on the floor and counter when we are done, and the cookies WILL be misshapen lumps, and it's okay."
4. Let them be the age they are, guide them in matters of respect for other people. Model the behavior you would like to see in them. If you yell, apologize or say, "Do-over! I need to say that over in a nicer way."
5. My sister will tell my son, "Think twice!" if he's about to throw something or hit the baby. Sometimes it works. I think short reminder words are good - "Respect" or "Kindness!" can stand in for "You need to take better care of blah blah blah blah..."
6. Cut yourself some slack. Kids are resilient, and this is a lot of work, this parenting gig. Remember, what you do now will pay off in the form of a civilized, polite, compassionate ADULT - this is a 20+ year process we are engaging in as parents.

For the bike rides, here are my thoughts - ask them to demonstrate responsibility, then give them a loose rein if they come through. If you give them the trust that they will be responsible, and compliment them often when they are acting the way you want, they may pleasantly surprise you. Maybe this means you tell the kids, "I am concerned about safety by the road. Therefore, we are going to the park to ride bikes. I expect you to walk them until we are in the park and away from traffic, and then you can go crazy, but I need for you to stay in visual contact with me. Give me a check-in wave, I'll show a green scarf if you're okay, or a red one if you're getting too far ahead." Or, can you give them walkie-talkies for the bike rides? If they start getting too far ahead, you can recall them to base camp on the walkie-talkie without resorting to yelling, and it will be more fun than screaming at them (for you and for them).

[nd_deadhead]

My twin boys just turned 16. They are polite, respectful, and empathetic. As someone else said, I don't take credit - we were blessed with wonderful kids! - but I do think DH and I shaped our relalationship with the boys, which shaped who they are.

This is what has worked for us:

- Treat them the way you want to be treated. Plain old Golden Rule. Sounds easy, but it really takes practice to get out of the mindset of "I'm the Mom, I need to tell them what to do!"

- One aspect of this for us was having the same rules for kids and grownups. If they aren't allowed to eat popsicles ont he couch, neither are we. If they must sit at the table until everyone is finished eating, so do I (no matter how big a pile of laundry I have to do).

- Be consistent. This is Number One. If the rules change from one day to the next, kids have no idea how to act, and they'll try anything.

- Realistic expectations - this is been mentioned a lot for a very good reason! Kids can only do what they are physically and emotionally capable of doing this week.

- Catch them being good. Notice when they're acting appropriately - especially if it's a situation that's been a struggle in the past. It's far easier to teach children what TO do than what NOT to do - make sure they know when they're doing something right (like staying in sight on the bike path).

- Remember that they WILL outgrow a lot of stuff you're experiencing now! Hang in there!

[mom2lucy]

this is a wonderful thread. thank you to everone contributing!

[Wild Lupine]

Originally Posted by Mizelenius

These are easier said than done, but here's my list:

(1) Realistic expectations are everything. Children pretty much "act their age" 100% of the time. Disclaimer: There is a fine line between expecting and labeling.

(2) When you are done being patient, find 5 more minutes of patience.

(3) Children's personalities, levels of impulse control, and temperament generally have not been caused by you or your parenting. (My motto: I take no credit and I take no blame.)

(4) Focus on problem solving, not blame.

(5) At the end of the day, you and your children will not remember your children's behavior, but you will all be dramatically influenced by your response. If you've modeled patience, kindness, and understanding, it was the right choice.

(6) The only person you can change is you.

I love this! I may hang in on my fridge. I especially need to remember #2.

Awesome thread!

[transylvania_mom]

I try to step back and enjoy the ride.
I try to remember kids are people and they make mistakes too, and it's ok to make mistakes, to fail, to be afraid, angry, etc. as long as they learn from it. I wouldn't be happy if someone else set an high standard for me and expected me to be perfect.

I like Barbara Coloroso's book, "Kids are worth it" where she says: When kids blow it, and they will, they are given a second opportunity to try again, after they have been given the opportunity to experience the consequences of blowing it the first time.

[avent]

I agree with a lot of what's been said, but I'll offer 3 more items that make the difference in our house between kids who are pretty well behaved and ones we want to drop off at the police station.

1) Nutrition. The better I feed my kids, the more nourished they are, the better they behave. They get small amounts of sugar (fruit only) and I can tell the difference when they don't eat as well as they could or when they get hungry and cranky. Lots of good fats, too, to ward off blood sugar highs and lows.

2) TV. I can tell the difference in terms of attitude and defiance in my kids when they've watched too much TV. This is regardless of programming, I think it's actually the box and the sitting.

3) How much attention I give them, especially in the morning. If I'm really distracted and don't give them some time when they are my sole focus it's harder to get them to listen. I try to fill their tanks in the morning if I can.

On a day when they get lots of focused attention in the morning, good snacks with no sugar, and no TV is way better than the opposite. A vast difference in how they listen to me, do what I ask them to do, and in attitude as well.

And all without "discipline"!

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by avent

And all without "discipline"!

I want to address your last sentence. The word discipline comes from the word disciple and is not equal to punishment. I want my children to be my disciples to learn from my example and to follow in my footsteps. Punishment can be part of discipline but is not the first nor the only option available. Discipline can include, but is not limited to, hyperbole, humor, redirection, time-outs (or time-ins; removal from situation), hugs, talking it out, leading by example, agreed upon rules, education, rewards, consequences. Discipline is certainly not "do what I say, not what I do". In order to correct my childrens behavior, I must first look to my own. I must first model correct/"good" behavior to and in front of my children before I can expect them to exhibit it.

[crpsmnwife]

Originally Posted by Mizelenius

At the end of the day, you and your children will not remember your children's behavior, but you will all be dramatically influenced by your response. If you've modeled patience, kindness, and understanding, it was the right choice.

Yes, that! I wish I could have read that about 14 times -- okay, 100 times! -- yesterday. Yes, they were ridiculous, but I wasn't the mom I could have been either :-(

[MrsH]

I also don't know "the" secret, and I guess I've stopped trying. Instead I try to figure out what I want to be like in my interactions with them, what I want them to learn from me. And then we figure out how to set up their days to make that most likely to happen. And I'm trying to get a handle on how my own issues cause most of my angry and yelling moments with the kids. She's Gonna Blow! has been a helpful read for me around that.

(**to clarify, I love parenting books and have learned a lot from some of them. I value learning and building on my skills as a parent, both from experience and from advice others have to give. But I found that at some point I needed to take a break from books and advice in order to listen to my children and myself.)

I totally agree with this! For the past two years, I've declared November my "no-parenting books month." It's been great! I do really love parenting books but taking a break from them has really helped cut down my inner critic and helped me to be more fully attuned to my kids.

[noobmom]

I'm far, far from perfect, but what I've noticed on my good days:

1) I give my kids enough of the type of attention they want (one-on-one talking, playing, etc. Not telling them what to do). Someone else mentioned this as well.

2) Remember that they aren't trying to piss you off. Intent counts for something, so cut them a little slack.

3) Don't lie to them to get them to do what you want.

4) When you're arguing over something, give them an "out" that allows them to save face. A symbolic compromise can make a huge difference.

5) Don't read parenting books!

6) Patience, patience, and more patience...

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I love the "take no credit; accept no blame" idea!

Here are my two tips I can share:

1. Be real with your kids. I love the idea of the bike ride description and you just kind of "freaking out" saying something like, "Ahh...stop! I can't deal with this right now. I feel like this is totally unsafe and that no one's listening to me and it's just not fun for me at all. We need to go home." In time (at least for my DC) she learned that everyone has more fun when everyone is enjoying themselves. This is *the* keystone of my parenting philosophy.

2. Yes days. When DC was younger we would have 'yes' days. When I felt like we had gone a stretch kind of bickering and I felt like I was always saying no to everything, I would have a day where I tried to say yes to as many things as possible. It always seemed to clear the slate.

ETA: one more thing that has already been mentioned: If you can get yourself to rephrase "no" answers into "what they can do" answers that can really help. With a bit of practice this will start to come really naturally. Actually, this helps throughout life, IMO. Even adults and certainly school friends, neighbor kids and etc. prefer to hear what they *can* do rather than a no.

Re: the high expectations. I think this is a really good concept but it's really difficult to grasp. I've been able to see glimpses of this throughout DC's life but it's hard to put into words and even harder to distinguish. It's not so much that you have high expectations but that internally you truly believe your children to behave in a particular way. It's a distinction that I think kids are aware of on some level.

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by MrsH

I totally agree with this! For the past two years, I've declared November my "no-parenting books month." It's been great! I do really love parenting books but taking a break from them has really helped cut down my inner critic and helped me to be more fully attuned to my kids.

I've always preferred child development books that told be about the stages of childhood. What to expect when sort of books. Your (age of child) Year Old books were the most helpful in determining what was normal behavior for that age. Once I knew what was normal, then I could tailor my response appropriately. The only parenting books I've read were Dr. Dobson's The Strong-Willed Child (back when Erica was 2-3; the first and only book at that time that came close to Erica's personality), and a copy of Ezzo (forget the title, it was the infant one) when Dylan was a baby. I got that one from the library to see what he was all about after reading about him on a debate board. Didn't finish the book--he was so wrong and had no clue about raising children. I knew more about raising children than he did and I had only raised 3 to that point. Neither one was all that helpful in dealing with Erica or Dylan. I've read some of Dr. Sears when my grandson was born. If the more recent books on high needs children had been around back in the 80s, I might have had read them. But they weren't.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Dobson and Ezzo...no wonder you didn't like parenting books.

Re: books. I think it's a matter of finding a few that sit will with you and certainly a bit of perspective that they're not a magic cure.

A couple of my favorites were Becoming the Parent You Want to Be and Unconditional Parenting. I also really like Taking Children Seriously but I took an actual class in that book and don't think I would have gotten much from the book alone.

In TCC the absolute GEM of advice I got was that silence can solve 90% or your communication problems with your kids. The essential idea is that a parent's quick, impulsive response to what a child says can actually really hinder their forthcomingness. Often if you just remain silent or just say a little to encourage the rest of the idea you get a breakthrough.

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama

Dobson and Ezzo...no wonder you didn't like parenting books.

Re: books. I think it's a matter of finding a few that sit will with you and certainly a bit of perspective that they're not a magic cure.

A couple of my favorites were Becoming the Parent You Want to Be and Unconditional Parenting. I also really like Taking Children Seriously but I took an actual class in that book and don't think I would have gotten much from the book alone.

In TCC the absolute GEM of advice I got was that silence can solve 90% or your communication problems with your kids. The essential idea is that a parent's quick, impulsive response to what a child says can actually really hinder their forthcomingness. Often if you just remain silent or just say a little to encourage the rest of the idea you get a breakthrough.

It wasn't until recently that I found out how little I really took away from reading The Strong-Willed Child. I reread it after my first grandson was born, only to realize that I had not put into practice anything from the book. The only thing I got from that book was the sheer relief that there were other children similar to Erica and that she wasn't the only one. That one idea was a life saver for me. There was one other thing I got from that book--that spanking didn't work on strong-willed children--only to find out that that idea isn't even in the book. I didn't even know about Ezzo until Dylan was almost 2.

One the most effective discipline idea I developed came from history, not a child development book. Teddy Roosevelt's "Speak softly and carry a big stick" works as equally well with children as it does nations.

[avent]

Originally Posted by sewchris2642

Discipline can include, but is not limited to, hyperbole, humor, redirection, time-outs (or time-ins; removal from situation), hugs, talking it out, leading by example, agreed upon rules, education, rewards, consequences.

There's a reason I had "discipline" in quotes.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure my 3 ideas (very little TV, good nutrition, filling up their tanks in the morning) fall under your definition (hyperbole, humor, redirection, etc) either. I guess they are a bit under "leading by example" because I eat the same food they do, but that's about it.

These 3 things are things I would do anyway as part of my family culture, so I don't think of them as part of the disciplinary process, just how we live by our values. But I have noticed that it's harder to maintain discipline if I start slacking in these areas by skipping snacks, letting them watch TV while I make some phone calls, etc. So basically I was talking about how non-disciplinary measures (lifestyle choices) affect how the kids behave and how much other discipline (such as your examples) I use.

Hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by avent

There's a reason I had "discipline" in quotes.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure my 3 ideas (very little TV, good nutrition, filling up their tanks in the morning) fall under your definition (hyperbole, humor, redirection, etc) either. I guess they are a bit under "leading by example" because I eat the same food they do, but that's about it.

These 3 things are things I would do anyway as part of my family culture, so I don't think of them as part of the disciplinary process, just how we live by our values. But I have noticed that it's harder to maintain discipline if I start slacking in these areas by skipping snacks, letting them watch TV while I make some phone calls, etc. So basically I was talking about how non-disciplinary measures (lifestyle choices) affect how the kids behave and how much other discipline (such as your examples) I use.

Hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.

It does. The idea that discipline only = punishment is just a sore point with me. And your post just was the current straw and you got the fall out. I get what you are saying and to me it does fall within discipline because I view discipline as the way I and my family live. Just like diet really describes what and how one eats but has come to mean denial of certain foods in order to lose weight, discipline has come to mean just one thing.

[avent]

Originally Posted by sewchris2642

It does. The idea that discipline only = punishment is just a sore point with me. And your post just was the current straw and you got the fall out. I get what you are saying and to me it does fall within discipline because I view discipline as the way I and my family live. Just like diet really describes what and how one eats but has come to mean denial of certain foods in order to lose weight, discipline has come to mean just one thing.

I'm not sure where I said discipline=punishment???? I don't punish my kids so I think you're reading something that's not there.

I see those 3 items (TV, nutrition/blood sugar mgmt, giving the kiddos more attention) as something much bigger than discipline, I see them as the basis of actual biological development and would do them even if they made our day-to-day family life more difficult. (Luckily they make it easier!) And when I said "without discipline" I meant "external to", not "lack of".

So--A top layer of these 3 items which are based for me in biology, and underneath a long list very similar to the list you mentioned, with a few other items you didn't, none of which are punishment.

I could have easily written your post but I wrote mine instead. To me the two are not mutually exclusive at all. We just think of it differently.

[lilith1]

What a great thread... I read it all...