waterbirth safety? Our scary experience - Page 2

[mwherbs]

I think it is possible for a baby to inhale pool water, I too have seen things similar to what msblack mentions, and the other thing is if a baby is already in primary apnea no matter where he she is there will be gasping . Hard to say what all happened , it is typical for the docs to attribute pool water for everything, so much so that they can miss a dx- which happened here locally, if it were not for an older long practicing neonatal nurse an over looked heart problem would have gone undetected because the docs just rubber stamped the problem as water. In your case it seems easy enough to trace the cause
the green/brown fluid the baby spit up, is most likely meconium I could think of several ways that the fluid was not stained yet it got inhaled, i personally would attribute this to exposure to mec - if it were your bm the color would be brown/light brown- the shades of green degrading to brown are mec

[MegBoz]

Originally Posted by Sijae

Water birth is safe but hospitals do things that are unsafe, unscientific and bad for babies all the time.

Agreed.
But those things are usually things that make life convenient for them:

• CS for failure to progress (or 'big baby' or opposing or outright banning VBAC)
• cEFM
• pushing in lithotomy
• unnecessary induction (Can be a big cost saver - easier to predict staffing levels)
• pushing epidurals so mama stays still & quiet (& less likely to fight against stuff like pit to speed it up)

or they do things to hurry it all along: (Again, to save time = save money)

• AROM
• pit

or they do things they think limit their liability because, as we all know, "you get sued for the CS you don't do [or other intervention you don't do], NOT for the one you do."

• so, 'nothing by mouth'
• not 'allowing' a mama to go beyond 41W or 42W
• not 'allowing' a mama to labor or push longer than XX hours

Water birth doesn't fit into any of these categories. It has no advantages for the docs, the hospital administrators, etc. As a matter of fact, it makes life MORE difficult because you can't have cEFM that the nurses watch from the nursing station & the OBs watch from their mobile phones. I would imagine it makes vaginal exams more difficult or time-consuming to wait for mama to get out of the water. & it MUST make it more difficult for an OB to "monitor" all during the pushing phase.

Finally, there are plenty of HCPs who would say, "XYZ thing went wrong because it was a water birth.' But NO ONE would say, "XYZ thing went wrong because it was a land birth - it would have all been fine if you'd just had her birth in the water." That's never going to happen.

So, all that being said, while I agree that we can't point to hospitals and say, "They do ABC thing, so it must be safe." I TOTALLY AGREE with mrsdewees that if hospitals do water births, they must be safe, because, as analyzed above, hospitals don't do things that aren't either liability-reducing, convenient & cost saving/ revenue increasing (i.e. & speeding things up saves costs) & water birth is none of that.

[jcregan]

I think in situations like this the problem is that it is simply unknown what happened and was like a couple factors together. Sounds very unlikely that it was the water birth but also can't 100% rule it out I guess, simply cause it is really impossible to know exactly what went on and what factors played a role. It also sounds like that whatever did happen ended up worse with all the suctioning etc.

I agree with many other PP that the doctor/s took the easy way out to simply blame the water birth without considering other options as to them it probably seemed very "obvious" as a cause, when in reality it most likely was not.

I totally understand why you would not be comfortable with water birth again- you would likely be stressed out - not a good way to have a baby!

Time in the NICU is not fun - my daughter was there for awhile for other reasons. I greatly respect our NICU staff/nurses after that, but I also hope to never have to see them again!

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by mrsdewees

The first waterbirth I ever apprenticed at, we had to resuscitate the baby. My midwife is a big supporter of waterbirths for the moms, but she says it poses problems because it's extremely difficult to resuscitate in the pool. She had to clamp and cut the cord before it stopped pulsating in order to get the baby on a flat service so we could administer oxygen.

I'm curious...is it really that difficult to get mom out of water with baby still attached if rescucitation is necessary? I had no trouble getting out of the pool with baby unassisted 5-10 minutes after waterbirthing my son, so at least for me it seems like it shouldn't be that big of a deal, but I know some moms are more ungainly when pregnant so maybe it'd be more of an issue for them? The CNM around here who attends homebirths doesn't allow water births at all because she says it's too difficult to resucitate baby if they need it.

[homebirthing]

I agree that we could get a mom out who is holding a baby in very little time.

[Sijae]

Not only is it possible to get mom out but it is also possibly to start resus on a board (cookie sheet, cutting board, special board made for that purpose) poolside. There is very little excuse to cut the cord, it's just a bad idea, especially in a compromised baby.

[party_of_seven]

I don't have anything new to add, but I did have a similar situation with my now 4 month old. He was not born in the water. He was a big boy (10lbs 7oz). He was born quite quickly. My midwives were worried about a shoulder dystocia and had me pushing even without a contraction to get the rest of him out once his head was born. He was fine after the birth, but 24 hours later he had respiratory distress. We went to the ER. He had a septic workup and Xray. Everything was 100% fine. His breathing normalized after 24 hours in the NICU. We spent 3 days in the hospital. Doctors said it was TTN.

In my case I think we had 3 risk factors for TTN....big baby, male baby, and precipitous delivery.

[erin_brycesmom]

FWIW, my sister's baby who went through this was also on the bigger side at 10lbs 4oz.

[Momtotwo2004]

Well, now I'm feeling a bit peeved.

My baby was most definitely macrosomic at almost 12 lbs. He was male. He had an extremely precipitous birth. His breathing issues cleared up well under 72 hours. These are all signs of TTN.

When I mentioned TTN in the ER they said it wasn't because his breathing difficulties didn't show up until many hours after birth. They did ask me when it all started and I said that we really got worried in the evening, hours later. The reality was that I (and my family) thought his breathing was off all day long. My midwife said his breathing was fine after birth and during all of his exams. And while I love her and the care she gave us, I disagree. I wish I had spoken up when the doctors asked me.

I am now nearly 100% positive that's what he had. And that the 6 day NICU stay was unnecessary and that I missed out on quite a bit of time with my sweet baby because of it. But I'm trying to tell myself that all that matters is that he's ok and that it's all over and done with.

[Momtotwo2004]

Me again. I think what's bugging me about this is what everyone else is saying. That the AUTOMATIC assumption was that it was the water birth/homebirth. Both by the doctors and by some family and friends.

And I'm a bit mad at myself that I didn't speak up. I guess I didn't feel comfortable disagreeing with my midwife as though it would make her look bad in front of the doctors. But I *told* her I thought his breathing looked funny. And I even remember her assistant questioning it at some point too.

I certainly don't blame her. I think she honestly thought he was breathing fine. And it wasn't *that bad* at the time. But something was definitely off and it got progressively worse.

I'm just mad at myself for not saying so. You'll have to pardon me. This is the only place I have to talk this through and work through the feelings I'm having. My husband is done talking about it. He wants to move on.

[party_of_seven]

Well, I know my son was breathing fine after his birth. He was born around 3pm. At about midnight we noticed that he was breathing a little faster than normal. By 2pm the next day it was quite obvious and he was very irritable because he was working so hard.

We were treated very well by hospital staff. They knew my son was a HB. The doc said that since his breathing increased a few hours AFTER the birth they could not rule out the possibility of an infection causing the distressed breathing so they had to do the septic workup and admit him. It was only after the fact that the cultures came back clear that they could diagnose TTN.

I know it's hard to deal with how you were treated. I feel like I lost my babymoon with possibly my last baby. However, I am so grateful that the hospital staff were so kind to me. It's probably because I am an experienced mom, and this baby was my 6th baby and my 5th homebirth. In hindsight I would have done it all the same. There is no way to know if my little guy had a possible infection. If he did, and we had skipped the septic workup we would have lost precious time to get him well and we may have lost him. I am very grateful that it all turned out ok and we took a healthy baby home.

[caedmyn]

What is TTN?

[homemademom]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

What is TTN?

I'd like to know, too.

[Toolip]

I think it's Transient Tachypnea of the Newborn (TTN)

[GoBecGo]

Transient Tachypnea of the Newborn.

Heer's the wiki stub, google for more...