some questions about BFing and pumping

[neonalee]

I just started pumping last week and am learning some new things (because I'm finally paying attention rather than just surviving). Apparently I have a strong let down, which I hadn't noticed before. I've sprayed DS in the face a few times now (I'm sorry, but I find it absolutely hilarious). I wonder if he's been trying to keep up this whole time and that's causing some of his huge spitup problem? (He doesn't projectile spit up)

Reading another thread I saw mention of foremilk/hindmilk imbalance with a strong let down. DS often has green poop. So is there definitely an imbalance or just maybe and if so, how do I address it? Pump first? DS often eats for 5 minutes or less, but his weight gain and diaper count has been fine so I wasn't worried about it.

So far I seem to be able to pump A LOT and still satisfy DS. I can easily pump 4 oz in 5 minutes. In the last 4 hours I've fed DS twice and pumped I think 3 oz in a few minutes time, and I already feel somewhat soft but definitely full again. At what point can I say that my supply is such that I should donate some? And how would I go about doing that?

Last - I need to get my freezer stash going for when I go back to work on Oct 1. Are the Lansinoh bags the best storage? What about those ice cube type trays? What kind of routine do I need? I mean, do I build a stash of a certain size, then daily give the DC the milk I pumped the day before? And if for some reason I don't pump enough use the freezer stash? How do I rotate the freezer ones to keep them from getting too old in there?

Sorry for all the questions, my head is spinning with this. Being a new mom is a huge learning experience I'm finding.

[staceychev]

I'm pretty new to this too. Went back to work when DD1 was 14 months, so didn't pump at all, and just started back a couple of weeks ago when DD2 was 5-1/2 months.

I use the Medela bags and write her name and the date I pumped it on the Sharpie. I don't have a big freezer stash though so rotating stock is not as much of an issue, but yeah, you do want to use the older first, same way you would for any other food in your kitchen. My DCP has an emergency bag in her freezer for if Evie has a "hungry day," but other than that, any stash stays with me. It helps me keep a better idea of how much ahead of the game I am.

[kanga1622]

I can't answer the first part but can tell you a little about rotating.

I pump pretty much exactly what DS takes at daycare but have a huge freezer stash from before he started drinking this much (his last growth spurt).

DS takes 4 bottles each day so on Monday I send him with 2 fresh bottles (Sat & Sun pump sessions) and 2 of the oldest bags from the freezer. The rest of the week he gets the milk I pumped the day before. On Friday all 4 bottles get put into the Lansinoh bags and get frozen.

This works for me only if he gives me a break and I find the time to pump on Sat & Sun just one time each day. If he eats too often and I can't get in a session or only get a partial bottle, he gets more freezer milk on Monday.

Our DCP has 2 bags of frozen milk in her freezer (the milk is from right before he started so I don't have to worry about rotating it for awhile) and each bag contains a full bottle. DS takes 3 or 3.5 ounces each bottle and I wanted her to have full bottles per bag in case I forget to pack one or one gets dumped on the floor as she's prepping it. I feel better about two bags of milk in case one leaks as it is thawing (that has only happened with the very first bag I thawed).

[ShanaV]

Congrats on your new baby! I've got a bit of exp with both BFing and pumping for my twins, so I'll try to answer some questions.

Originally Posted by neonalee

I just started pumping last week and am learning some new things (because I'm finally paying attention rather than just surviving). Apparently I have a strong let down, which I hadn't noticed before. I've sprayed DS in the face a few times now (I'm sorry, but I find it absolutely hilarious). I wonder if he's been trying to keep up this whole time and that's causing some of his huge spitup problem? (He doesn't projectile spit up)

Reading another thread I saw mention of foremilk/hindmilk imbalance with a strong let down. DS often has green poop. So is there definitely an imbalance or just maybe and if so, how do I address it? Pump first? DS often eats for 5 minutes or less, but his weight gain and diaper count has been fine so I wasn't worried about it.

Yes, it prob is overactive letdown. Check the threads and kellymom.com on this. Green poo = foremilk. I've addressed this by pumping first, for just a few mins, to take the edge off. Then refrigerate or freeze this bc you will use it later when you go to work. It's great that he's gaining and peeing and pooping plenty! Doesn't hurt to build a stash asap though.

So far I seem to be able to pump A LOT and still satisfy DS. I can easily pump 4 oz in 5 minutes. In the last 4 hours I've fed DS twice and pumped I think 3 oz in a few minutes time, and I already feel somewhat soft but definitely full again. At what point can I say that my supply is such that I should donate some? And how would I go about doing that?

I'd focus on freezing all excess milk before donating it. Your baby is still tiny!

Last - I need to get my freezer stash going for when I go back to work on Oct 1. Are the Lansinoh bags the best storage? What about those ice cube type trays? What kind of routine do I need? I mean, do I build a stash of a certain size, then daily give the DC the milk I pumped the day before? And if for some reason I don't pump enough use the freezer stash? How do I rotate the freezer ones to keep them from getting too old in there?

I first used Medela bags, but found out they're about twice as expensive and only hold half the milk as the lansinoh ones.

Also, I used to not measure how much was in each bag. Big mistake. Write the date and the ounces or mL on the outside. I prefer mL bc it's more precise. I use stickers on the outside. I got a ton from when they were in the nicu and I still have them. When they're gone, I got some white label stickers to use. But a sharpie sounds like a good idea too.

Then yes, use the oldest first. Milk can stay in the freezer for lke 3-4 months easily, and for 2-4 ish days fresh in the fridge.

Best of luck! Check these forums often for all kinds of advice!

[ShanaV]

Oh, and lie the baggies flat to freeze so they'll stack or nest together like little slices!

[neonalee]

Thanks for the advice Mamas! I bought the bags yesterday, so I'll start freezing in there soon and see how it goes.

I've been reading a lot about oald and os. Can you have oald without os? I couldn't find anything about that, or how to tell if you have os. I'm hesitant to try the block feeding if I don't have os. But if I do have os, and I'm just pumping or hand expressing a little before feeding, then if I read correctly I'll stimulate more milk production?

Also, if I save what I pump "off the top" before a feeding, then isn't that just foremilk I'm saving without the hindmilk?

Hopefully additional experienced Mamas will address the other questions and these new ones as well!

Thanks!

[texmati]

Originally Posted by neonalee

Thanks for the advice Mamas! I bought the bags yesterday, so I'll start freezing in there soon and see how it goes.

I've been reading a lot about oald and os. Can you have oald without os? I couldn't find anything about that, or how to tell if you have os. I'm hesitant to try the block feeding if I don't have os. But if I do have os, and I'm just pumping or hand expressing a little before feeding, then if I read correctly I'll stimulate more milk production?

Also, if I save what I pump "off the top" before a feeding, then isn't that just foremilk I'm saving without the hindmilk?

Hopefully additional experienced Mamas will address the other questions and these new ones as well!

Thanks!

I just wanted to give another take on freezer stash rotation:

I tried very, very hard to make sure I pumped what my baby ate at the beginning. So, if he had 7 ounces in the day, than I pumped 7 ounces, even if it meant taking pump home and pumping after he went to sleep.

Also, we kept our stash in bottles. It was infinitely easier. the bags are messy, expensive and not reusable. That being said-- I never had a *huge* stash, and I did donate after a while. the most I had in my freezer was 200-300 oz's. I did score a deal on medela 3 ounce bottles on craigslist, so most of my stash was in that. the bottles are easier to pump into, fill, thaw, store and use. I did use bags once I used up aaaallll my bottles.

Finally, the whole pump and feed seems much more daunting when you are at home. For me, the whole bit seemed to click when I started working. On monday, I would pump and leave bottles in the fridge (not freezer) for Tuesday. These bottles would be used by the sitter on Tuesday. No thawing or pouring from bags etc. My kiddo would suck 'em down without even warming, so it was easy peasy. Friday's milk would go in the freezer, and monday's milk would be pulled out of the freezer and thawed over night.

[neonalee]

Originally Posted by texmati

I tried very, very hard to make sure I pumped what my baby ate at the beginning. So, if he had 7 ounces in the day, than I pumped 7 ounces, even if it meant taking pump home and pumping after he went to sleep.

How do I know how much he eats?? Is that a dumb question? Or do you mean once you know how much he's eating at daycare? I wish I knew how much he was eating now!

Already have a nice stash going in the freezer. I'm easily pumping 4+ oz daily in addition to feeding ds. His poops are also less green and his massive spitup has lessened, hooray! Anytime I suspect it's coming too fast I pull him off and either pump or hand express a bit. I'm also keeping him on the same side for multiple feedings (pumping other side some too), which I think is getting him more hindmilk. I'm not worried about increasing supply yet since I go back to work full time next week and have been told to expect a decrease from that.

[texmati]

Originally Posted by neonalee

How do I know how much he eats?? Is that a dumb question? Or do you mean once you know how much he's eating at daycare? I wish I knew how much he was eating now!

Already have a nice stash going in the freezer. I'm easily pumping 4+ oz daily in addition to feeding ds. His poops are also less green and his massive spitup has lessened, hooray! Anytime I suspect it's coming too fast I pull him off and either pump or hand express a bit. I'm also keeping him on the same side for multiple feedings (pumping other side some too), which I think is getting him more hindmilk. I'm not worried about increasing supply yet since I go back to work full time next week and have been told to expect a decrease from that.

Not a dumb question at all! It's one of the hardest things about pumping and bf-ing.

I would take a look at this page from kelly mom. http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkcalc.html

and this one:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/bottle-feeding.html


Basially.... breastfed babies will take less milk than formula fed babies *per bottle*. Breastfed babies will normally not take more than four ounce bottles. but they will get fed more often.

Who is taking care of your kiddo while you are out? I'd make sure that they are well versed on bm storage, handling etc, so they aren't dumping milk. Also, you might want to talk to them about trying different things before a bottle, and also *bottle nursing*. (always holding during a feed, switching sides and burping mid bottle etc).

You might also want to consider introducing a paci. DS would suck on a bottle even if it was empty, because past experience bf feeding had taught him-- if milk flow slows, just keep sucking. A paci really helps calm him.

You may have a few go arounds with your care provider. My mom would feed my son until he would vomit, because she was convinced that he was hungry, when he was just plumb upset or tired. After a few experiences like this, he just wasn't going over there anymore.Kelly mom and llli have pumping boards that you may want to visit to help you figure out what's appropriate and not.

Finally, I hate to make every thing seem so complicated. After the first 2-3 weeks, we figured out a routine, and I was bringing home roughly the same amt of milk, and he was eating roughly the same amt of milk. Bottles were used and washed by the nanny, and we worked out a system so no breastmilk was wasted. It just becomes second nature.

[blake201]

I just started back to work and I got a lot of tips from a working moms workshop and http://workandpump.com/. The big takeaway I got was: the freezer stash is JUST for emergencies (spilled bag of milk, etc). If you regularly supplement what you can pump at work in one day with a little frozen milk each day, your baby will eat less when you nurse them at home, and your supply will start dropping.

I've also got oversupply and overactive letdown. I just nurse as much as possible on one side until she pulls off on her own and that seems to help.

As for pumping, I pump 3x/day for 10-12 minutes using a rented Symphony (I blew the $$$ on a Pump in Style but found it painful to use even on the slowest setting), and generally get 18-22 oz per day. The baby drinks anywhere from 8 oz to 20 oz, usually about 12-14.

[neonalee]

Thanks mamas! My day care provider told us that she is well used to breastfeeding moms/babies, but I'm planning to gather info and verify with her. She's trying cloth diapers for us too! We did start with a paci a couple weeks ago. I'm not happy being a paci myself He doesn't take it often but sometimes it's very handy!

As for the oald/os issue, it seems that it is maybe still an issue when I switch sides. He gets the same pained expression and spits up, though the massive fountain of spitup is usually only once a day now. I try to switch sides within an hour of pumping, not sure what's going on there.