My friend discipling my child in front of me - Page 5

[tallulahma]

Originally Posted by velochic

Exactly... without the OP coming back and clarifying, there is too much supposition. It's all how it's played out in our own minds as the readers rather than what really happened... and even that is just a one-sided story. It could be that the OP continuously ignored the problem (we only know what she purposely ignored once based on her post) and the other mother may have asked several times, without the OP hearing her, to do something. (See, you can make up any story, and it will change the response given.) If *my* scenario were fact, then taking a child into the other room to talk would be VERY appropriate.

isnt that the truth.

[lilyka]

People keep saying forced apology. Was it forced or did she just ask for it? I think people have a right to ask for what they need to make a situation better. I don't know how you can force an apology from a 4 year old. All you can do is ask for it. "I am sorry" made my kids feel better. If someone had hurt their feelings I would ask "can you tell them you are sorry" I think the other mom was trying to make peace between the kids.

[phathui5]

The bolded is a very weak excuse for stepping all over another parent and child's relationship.

Not the person this was directed at, but I wanted to say that I would hardly consider correcting a child who is bothering your child "stepping all over a relationship." The OP had the opportunity to correct her child's behavior and didn't. If nothing else, perhaps this will be a lesson to deal with her child's behavior if she doesn't want other people to do it.

[phathui5]

Originally Posted by mamazee

If she said that, I'd rally around her, but if she said she took the child into another room to discipline him, no I wouldn't. I'd say that went beyond what was appropriate.

Whereas if it was my friend taking aside one of my children, it wouldn't have bothered me at all, except maybe being embarassed that I didn't correct them first.

[texmati]

Originally Posted by phathui5

Not the person this was directed at, but I wanted to say that I would hardly consider correcting a child who is bothering your child "stepping all over a relationship." The OP had the opportunity to correct her child's behavior and didn't. If nothing else, perhaps this will be a lesson to deal with her child's behavior if she doesn't want other people to do it.

not once incident... but didn't the OP say that it had happened often?

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by phathui5

Whereas if it was my friend taking aside one of my children, it wouldn't have bothered me at all, except maybe being embarassed that I didn't correct them first.

Again, taking aside wouldn't bother me. I would be embarrassed that I hadn't stopped the behavior too. But taking away into another room to do it away from my view would bother me. That's the issue for me. And I'm actually surprised that it doesn't bother other people.

[PGTlatte]

I am not clear on whether they left the room specifically to talk about the tickling without the OP knowing that, or if they all left the room just because they were done eating, and then the tickling happened again.

With the leaving the room issue aside, with my closest friends who know my kids well, I would be appreciative. Both of my kids tend toward wildness and can be really persistent. I like for them to run up against reasonable limits that are enforced by someone other than me, because it reinforces that these are widespread expectations for their behavior, not just my expectations. Also when one is not listening to me, and I am at the point of needing to escalate my own discipline with either a time-out or leaving a playdate or gathering, sometimes a word from a friend to my child about their behavior can turn it completely around and the child gets it and we can go on with the playdate or gathering.

With someone who doesn't know us well, I don't mind at all if they are speaking up for their own child in an informative and non-shaming tone (and I feel bad that they had to do it because I wasn't on top of it first); and I don't mind if someone we don't know sees me struggling with my kid and "speaks up for me" in a reasonable tone (ie "you should listen to your mom") because hearing that from another adult really gets his attention and can be a big help (and I always say "thank you !!" over his head. )

The only time I don't want others disciplining my kid is when their expectations are overly rigid, their tone is shaming, and my child was not doing anything they had any way to know was not appropriate. Then it bugs me. But with my kids temperaments , that is not usually the case.

[Peppermint Leaf]

Does anyone think its odd that the OP posted this 3 days ago and has never come back to clarify her original Post

[loraxc]

I would be fine with a friend correcting my child, but not with taking them out the room without me, or with telling my child to say sorry.

In your friend's shoes, I would have asked your dd to stop, then if she did not, I would have fetched you and asked you to handle it. That is what I would want a friend to do for me.

This. I don't at all mind when a friend disciplines my kid right in the moment if I am missing a situation, and heck knows I do the same, but if the situation is such that a child needs to be removed and spoken to at length, then I consider that the job of the actual parent.

[Multimomma]

And I think taking aside to another room might have been a way to avoid embarrassment. To me, it would have meant that she didn't want to embarrass the child in front of all the other kids by pointing out those things in front of them. So it's not necessarily this malicious, 'get them away and be mean' idea, that's how we handle things here. It's not the business of other children, who could take that and tease her for it later.

Personally I would have been irritated at a mom who said stop, then ignored it because she was too busy talking to other adults while the first mom is having to sit with kids to keep this behavior from bothering her child.

Just my 2¢.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by Peppermint Leaf

Does anyone think its odd that the OP posted this 3 days ago and has never come back to clarify her original Post

actually i dont.

she admitted her mistake - basically 'bashed' herself and said the best she could explain.

and many of us continue to 'bash her' (not that's what we are doing but i am sure that's how it feels for her).

so if i was in her shoes this would be a v. hard thread for me to read. its hard to be confirmed that we did wrong.

so that's why i dont find it odd that OP has not come back to clarify. in fact is there a reason to clarify. i can see it getting worse.

she had a purpose and she got her answer.

[Catubodua]

Originally Posted by Peppermint Leaf

Does anyone think its odd that the OP posted this 3 days ago and has never come back to clarify her original Post

no. my guess is she only wanted responses that went along the lines of "your friend is horrible and what she did was horrible! you are wonderful!" and when she didn't get that, she stopped wanting to read the responses.

sometimes it's hard to not get the response you expect.

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by Peppermint Leaf

Does anyone think its odd that the OP posted this 3 days ago and has never come back to clarify her original Post

No she probably has a life and doesn't come here every day. Three days ago was a weekend...

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by Multimomma

And I think taking aside to another room might have been a way to avoid embarrassment. To me, it would have meant that she didn't want to embarrass the child in front of all the other kids by pointing out those things in front of them. So it's not necessarily this malicious, 'get them away and be mean' idea, that's how we handle things here. It's not the business of other children, who could take that and tease her for it later.

.

I totally agree. They could have also been in the room because girl clearly wanted to play with boy and maybe mom thought a more quiet less stimulating environment would be a better way for them to play. Or because she wanted to get away from the noise and distraction where the kids could express themselves and mom could step in if need be. Or so mom could facilitate a conversation.

[sora]

Thanks so much for all the responses. I'm sorry that I have not come back to clarify. My friend took my daughter and her son to another room in front of me without telling me anything. I think that was the part that I was offended most. I feel that I should have given a chance to correct my daughter since it was not my intention to let my daughter behave that way. If she gave my daughter a warning, I probably would've taken her out to the side to talk to her.

I think I'm offended more because of my relationship with my friend. We used to be very close but not at heart any more. My daughter tends to be aggressive with her son. I think partly because her son is so mellow and won't fight back hard. Also they spent a lot of time together since they were 1. So my daughter treats him like her little brother.
I think she is annoyed that I'm not doing enough to stop my daughter. I'm trying my best but I'm not always so vigilant. But she is super sensitive and notices everything. She is also very strict with teaching him manners (like always sitting at the table to eat, etc) while I'm more lax. She often makes me feel like I'm not a good parent. Now I have a baby, it becomes harder for me to be vigilant for my daughter. She usually plays quite well with most kids these days. So I started to relax and this happened.
I also noticed that my friend was getting distant from me and hanging out with moms with younger girls who are more gentle. I think I need to take a break from her and her son.

[PGTlatte]

Originally Posted by sora

My friend took my daughter and her son to another room in front of me without telling me anything. I think that was the part that I was offended most. I feel that I should have given a chance to correct my daughter since it was not my intention to let my daughter behave that way.

Originally Posted by sora

I think I'm offended more because of my relationship with my friend. We used to be very close but not at heart any more. My daughter tends to be aggressive with her son. I think partly because her son is so mellow and won't fight back hard. Also they spent a lot of time together since they were 1. So my daughter treats him like her little brother.
I think she is annoyed that I'm not doing enough to stop my daughter. I'm trying my best but I'm not always so vigilant. But she is super sensitive and notices everything. She is also very strict with teaching him manners (like always sitting at the table to eat, etc) while I'm more lax. She often makes me feel like I'm not a good parent. Now I have a baby, it becomes harder for me to be vigilant for my daughter. She usually plays quite well with most kids these days. So I started to relax and this happened.
I also noticed that my friend was getting distant from me and hanging out with moms with younger girls who are more gentle. I think I need to take a break from her and her son.

It sounds like there is a temperament mismatch between the kids, and a parenting style difference between you and your friend. I've also experienced this. My kids are the louder and wilder type, and they want to get a response out of other kids. They don't mix well with quiet children because they keep escalating their attempts to get a satisfying response. I do my best to keep them from being too disruptive, but I cannot change who they are, and I cannot be on their case every second. Parents with quiet kids and loftier ideas of "control" and "manners" are a mismatch for me and my kids, because no matter what I did or how hard I tried, I could never contain my children enough to meet the standards of someone like this. I've learned to not even attempt relationships when that is the situation. There is too much that is too different. A break would probably be less stressful for you both.

[AbbieB]

Originally Posted by sora

I think I'm offended more because of my relationship with my friend. We used to be very close but not at heart any more. My daughter tends to be aggressive with her son. I think partly because her son is so mellow and won't fight back hard. Also they spent a lot of time together since they were 1. So my daughter treats him like her little brother.
I think she is annoyed that I'm not doing enough to stop my daughter. I'm trying my best but I'm not always so vigilant. But she is super sensitive and notices everything. She is also very strict with teaching him manners (like always sitting at the table to eat, etc) while I'm more lax. She often makes me feel like I'm not a good parent. Now I have a baby, it becomes harder for me to be vigilant for my daughter. She usually plays quite well with most kids these days. So I started to relax and this happened.
I also noticed that my friend was getting distant from me and hanging out with moms with younger girls who are more gentle. I think I need to take a break from her and her son.

I have been in this exact same situation and it is hard. I have a spirited DD too and have found that as she gets older, things have gotten better.

I think it hurts more for us, the mom, to loose friendships when temperament and parenting mismatches become to big to overcome.

Originally Posted by laundrycrisis

It sounds like there is a temperament mismatch between the kids, and a parenting style difference between you and your friend. I've also experienced this. My kids are the louder and wilder type, and they want to get a response out of other kids. They don't mix well with quiet children because they keep escalating their attempts to get a satisfying response. I do my best to keep them from being too disruptive, but I cannot change who they are, and I cannot be on their case every second. Parents with quiet kids and loftier ideas of "control" and "manners" are a mismatch for me and my kids, because no matter what I did or how hard I tried, I could never contain my children enough to meet the standards of someone like this. I've learned to not even attempt relationships when that is the situation. There is too much that is too different. A break would probably be less stressful for you both.

[lilyka]

s

I want to encourage you though. I was a mom who worked really hard to teach her child manners and expected her to obey etc. It meant that I had to put some friendships on hold with people who chose a different path. It totally sucked. I missed my friend and that closeness but I didn't enjoy hanging out with their rowdy and wild kids (it was often embarrassing and hard for me to enjoy the time with my friend), dd often ended up getting physically hurt and the worst was even when her kids were tearing around being crazy I still expected mine to behave and she would feel torn and it would be awkward for me to tell dd "xyz is naughty and you may not do it" while friends kids were doing xyz. I am sure friend felt judged but at the same time no way was I going to let dd do that.

ON THE UP SIDE....

Once the friends kids mellowed out and grew up we rekindled our relationship and those kids are still my dd best friends (they are between the ages of 13 and 15 now). I think I changed some and friend changed some and kids grew up etc....

So maybe it is a good time to take a break from a friend who has such a different philosophy about raising children and how children should act etc It doesn't mean either one of you are right or wrong. Its just hard to hang out with kids in such a teaching season. Keep in touch, maybe hang out without the kids, and then when the time is right you guys can be close mom friends again.

[SilverLace]

I have been following this thread with a lot of interest... it brings me back to the days of having a toddler

sora- I wonder how come when you saw your friend taking the kids out of the room you didn't say anything? Seems like that would've been the time to say something before you became uncomfortable.

I think I am hearing two things from you- on one hand you agree your DD should've stopped and on the other had you say you are more relaxed and didn't have a problem with it. I think you are getting at the issue of balance- we all have parenting difference and kids with different personalities. No one parent and child should do all the adjusting or accommodating... both pairs should do some of the work. Sometimes it is hard to know in the moment what to do.

All that said, it is really hard when friendships shift because of parenting. It is easier when your kids are older because you can do more explaining outside of the situation, and kids get better at working things out themselves, and you might even have some time for your own friendships.

Hang in there mamas.

[PGTlatte]

Originally Posted by SilverLace

No one parent and child should do all the adjusting or accommodating... both pairs should do some of the work. Sometimes it is hard to know in the moment what to do.
.......
All that said, it is really hard when friendships shift because of parenting.

I have had both sides of the continuum be a problem.

I choose not to be around people with high-energy kids who don't make any attempt to control their kids at all, because since mine also tend toward wildness, and I am trying to balance teaching them appropriate behavior and self-control without crushing them with constant criticism, I feel it undermines my efforts when we are around kids who are wilder than them and parents who have much looser expectations than I do.

I also have a hard time being around people with naturally quieter kids, and/or much stricter ideas of behavior control than I have. The naturally quiet kids are understandably overwhelmed by my children, and I think their parents don't understand why I can't just tell my kids to calm down, because they've never experienced a wilder temperament and don't get that I need to pick my battles, and that what they are seeing usually is the calmed down version and I am making significant efforts to contain them.

They also have one friend who is told "no" to almost everything he wants to do that is loud or boyish. When we spend time with him, he is told "no, no, no" to tons of things that I see no problem with letting my kids do. I am not talking about misbehaviors - I'm talking about normal play activities for energetic boys. When we are with him I feel bad when my kids do stuff he's not allowed to, so I end up feeling like I have to tell them they can't do that right now because their friend can't. It's hard on them and me, and we spend less time with this friend as a result.

It's tough to be friends when the kids are really different, and the parents have different ideas. IMO it's almost impossible when there's not an effort from both sides to meet in the middle.