When your child is difficult and people blame GD

[msmiranda]

My 3yo is what the books call "spirited." In a lot of ways he is a very sweet kid, but he's not a great listener, he doesn't behave well in public places (runs off and touches things he's not supposed to), he throws toys when he is upset or frustrated (especially after being told to stop doing something), he's CONSTANTLY getting into the precise things he's not supposed to, and he pushes and hits his 14mo brother. He doesn't do all of these things all the time, but enough that people in our lives know about them. A few people have explicitly said that the reason he acts this way is because we "don't discipline" him. Meaning, because we don't hit him or use the threat of physical punishment to "keep him in line."

It is not as if we just let him run wild and do whatever he wants without saying anything -- on the contrary, I feel like I constantly tell him no and get down and stop that and ask him if he needs to go to his room for a few minutes (our version of time-out, where we remove him from a situation and then come talk to him about what he was doing that needs to stop). Most days, I don't feel like any of this is "working" in the sense that we notice any immediate behavior changes ... but I take a very long view of parenting, and we do see behavior changes over longer periods, hear from his own mouth that he has internalized what we are teaching, and believe that preserving a non-authoritarian loving relationship with him will ultimately give us more influence over his moral development in the long run.

But this is not the view of parenting that most people take, and it is really hard to hear that "your child is a brat because you aren't parenting him correctly", which is essentially what has been said to us directly (not in so many words) and behind our backs about us (in so many words). I do not believe that authoritarian parenting methods would change my son's personality and his tendency to have strong emotions and not always deal with them as well as we would hope. If physically punishing him or otherwise being more heavy-handed in disciplining him "worked," it would only be because of fear, not because he would be learning any valuable lessons about how to behave in the world and what is right and wrong. I am not interested in having children who fear me, even if it would make life easier to deal with most days. Most other parents do prefer fear, and they may well have kids who "are seen and not heard."

Sorry I am going on and on. I guess my question is, how do you deal with having a view of parenting that is so at odds with what the majority thinks is right? How do you manage to keep feeling good about GD if you have a spirited child and people blame you?

[phathui5]

That can be frustrating, especially when you have different goals for him than other people might have for their children.

On the other hand, I can see where they're coming from. We have spent time with families who were wholeheartedly trying to "gentle discipline" and their children were not pleasant to be around. It seems to happen more often with the first child.

In our family, we do exert more authority over our children than some other GD families might, because we want them to be the sort of children that people enjoy spending time with. So while we find gentle ways to discipline them, there are things that we absolutely do not allow. We've become comfortable being firm with them and found that rather than causing them to be fearful, it makes it so that they get along better with people and have better experiences in general.

[msmiranda]

I wouldn't say that we "allow" any of the things that I listed. I feel as though I am constantly disciplining him. We do speak to him about unacceptable behavior -- expressing strong disapproval and disappointment and explaining how his actions affect others, telling him to stop, and backing it up with action -- removing him from a situation, taking away the item he is using to do something unacceptable, etc. This generally does stop the offending behavior in the moment, but the next day, the next hour, or even sometimes sooner, he will do the exact same thing again, and that's what's frustrating. Short of literally tying him down or resorting to threats of physical punishment (which might work or might not work), I'm not sure how to get those behaviors to stop permanently until he grows out of them.

I also don't want to paint him as all bad -- he's very loving and sweet, he has many moments of sharing and playing affectionately with his brother, he likes to be helpful to us (other than picking up toys, which has not caught on yet). On many issues he is cooperative the vast majority of the time -- going to bed, for example, has never been a problem.

I'm kind of having an identity crisis as a parent right now .... I believe on the one hand that a lot of this is just his personality and that he will grow out of the more obnoxious bits as he gets older and starts to care that people like him and want to spend time with him. On the other hand it is hard to have people telling me and telling others behind my back that I am a bad mother.

[ssh]

First off, you're doing fine. Be patient with your methods and your son and it will pay off. Some gentle and respectful discipline methods take longer to have the desired effects. So when your DC is at a low impulse control age and is very high energy they may seem less disciplined when it's actually your discipline just takes longer to effect behavior. Once your DS has more impulse control and the verbal direction and modeling starts showing in his behavior people will be able to see your discipline does work. Your child isn't a brat, he's acting like a normal high energy preschooler with not a lot of impulse control. Gentle and respectful discipline works better in the long run because you have a child who can make good choices not one that can do what they are told.

I'd rather have a wild toddler and young preschooler than a child who can't make good choices on their own or feels they have to lie or hide things because they are afraid of me.

[bonamarq]

Sorry - there are no easy answers for you - he's 3, he's spirited, and people don't "see" you taking "appropriate enough" action. Well - IMO, harsh authoritarian techniques might very well change your child, but not for the better and it won't make him any better behaved - the over riding obstacle to this is his lack of impulse control (normal for his age) and unless you really are willing to hit him, threats of doing so only undermine your relationship and your integrity.

This is not to say that you shouldn't take action if he is in a situation that needs it - alot of times that means going home/ avoiding situations all together when you'd rather not and this is really hard. But that's our job.

People might not agree with how you are parenting - but if you are responding to this type of behavior consistently and with the aim of "teaching" when people imply that you are not disciplining him you either develop a thick skin and ignore it, or correct them and say we do not punish/threaten but choose instead to teach" and if it warrants further discussion then prepare yourself for a few non-threatening statements.

My child was much like this at three and it was hard, but I was adamant about my approach, but also let others know that I knew she was difficult and we may not be able to stay at x event or do xyz thing...But now she's six (nearly seven) and she is well behaved 90% of the time - especially in environments that are kid oriented or she is otherwise happily engaged in something...

The biggest critics are always the ones who don't understand typical behavior or have forgotten (grandparents are typical for this) - and if you are in a crowd of heavy handed parents you may be pleasantly surprised in a few years that your kid behaves because he knows how - and not sneaking around just trying to avoid a punishment....

[Tjej]

I think that you can do a lot to control for situations that you know are an area where your son is still very much "in progress". If he runs around and touches things, then don't let him run around. Easy solution. When you get somewhere that you believe it will be a problem, don't let him go on his own at all. Keep him on your lap. Keep him in the shopping cart. You can explain before you go that you need him to be safe and respectful of others things, and that right now the best way for you to do it is to keep him with you. Or, if you are feeling brave and willing to have the fight, explain to him what you expect BEFORE you get there, let him know that if he can't do that he will sit with you, and then when he voilates that boundary stick to your word and keep him close. Then the next time you go there keep him close from the start and explain it is to practice that boundary.

I guess that if you are telling him things and then he just goes and does it again right away afterwards the way you are disciplining isn't working. It sounds like he is looking for boundaries.

Consider this - how would you discipline him without speaking? Try doing it that way. Get down at his eye level, point at stuff, shake your head, hold him if that doesn't work. Talk very little about it - young children are much more about their bodies and actions than they are about words.

JMO

Tjej

[ssh]

We actually leave places if our DD can't behave appropriately. She's almost 5 now so it doesn't happen much at all any more. But when she was 2 and 3 it did. For running off we picked her up and carried her for awhile and then let her try walking by us again. By the time she was 4, she was much better about not touching fragile things.

[provocativa]

i have crazy kids, and the second is even wilder than the first. fyi, food allergies and food chemical intolerances really contribute to this, so if he still hasn't developed impulse control by age 4, consider a trial. if mine get even a speck of wheat they are the kind of crazy violent wild that makes a gd mama understand child abuse. recently, we did a dairy free trial and lo and behold, the 4 year old started staying with us in the store, and stopped falling down and screaming at every no. we then went to nana's, and had crazy behavior when consuming only butter, back to running off and tantrums, so we are back off dairy. plenty of info about food colorings on feingold.org anyhow. . . . leaving when he runs away is the best lesson. we also teach one finger touches, rather than prohibiting touch. i just say 'one finger touches in the store' (could use a recording, actually) but it really works. we are sensory learners, after all. . . .

[_betsy_]

I have a spirited, highly-verbal, easily frustrated, newly 4-year-old DD.

2.5-3.5 SUCKED. It was just a very, very trying, frustrating and energy-draining period. A bit before she turned 3.5, things started to get way easier. She's much more pleasant to be around. So much so that my FIL (don't get me started) has actually said that we must have started hitting her, that's why she's "all better" now. We didn't change tactics, we just did the ol' "hang in there, keep doing what you're doing" parenting routine, and sure enough, she's listening better, she's able to keep her hands and feet to herself and her impulse control is much stronger.

Try to remember to say YES as much as possible, hearing nothing but no all the time seemed to make things harder on DD1.

Hang in there, Mama!

[nextcommercial]

I don't mean in your particular instance.

This is just in defense of those of us who say "you don't discipline".

But, some parents DO mistake "Gentle discipline" with "No discipline". They do nothing. Oh, they might softly say "Gentle hands", or "That wasn't nice.. that hurts your friends". But, they don't ACTIVELY stop and correct the behavior. Which makes stopping completely optional to the child. These are the parents who are a little intimidated by their kids. You know, the ones where other adults say "Well, I know who runs the household" (which I think is a very rude thing to say for any reason)

I have met parents who use gentle discipline... but to them it means "he can do whatever he wants, because we don't spank, so I can't stop him, so you all had better just learn to deal with it" I watched a little boy in Target who was punching holes through all the baked goods and popping the chip bags because his mom couldn't make him stop. So, he destroyed at least $75 worth of food because mom wouldn't do anything.

On the other hand, my ENTIRE family thougth I should spank and use grounding with my kids, and they were the sweet, pleasing, quiet kids. There wasn't ever a good reason to spank. But, apparently I should anyway.. just to establish pecking order I guess.

[msmiranda]

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I do know that 3 is a tough age and that a lot of 3yo have problems with impulse control, listening, etc. He is a very spirited child -- what is also called "strong-willed" (I hate using that term bc I associate it with James Dobson, who I loathe). He is also very advanced for his age in a lot of ways and needs/demands a lot of stimulation. I truly believe he will become a very bright, engaging adult, but the process of getting there is going to be ... interesting.

We definitely do a lot of controlling for potentially bad situations -- maybe even too much. We don't take him to public places hardly at all, although he has gotten much better about the running off as he has gotten more verbal and can understand consequences (i.e. that running off either means we go home or he has to sit in the stroller or shopping cart). For travel or the occasional restaurant we always bring stuff to keep him entertained. My DH is not as good about taking control immediately as I am -- he tends to negotiate more and in general uses too many words and not enough actions. It annoys me to no end to hear their haggling over toothbrushing or putting pajamas on, etc. Neither of us really likes to play the heavy, but saying "please don't do x" is almost always ineffective, so I have had to step up in that department. Sigh. I wish I had a more easy-going child.

[phathui5]

I wanted to come back and add that it was really tough for me when my oldest was three. I was a whole new ballgame, you know? He went from being a toddler who was fairly easily redirected to this person who knew what he wanted and it frequently was something that he wasn't supposed to do. Parenting is hard, and it can feel even harder when it seems like the people around you don't support what you're trying to do.

[lotus.blossom]

I can definitely relate to your post. I felt criticism for my ds1 when he was 2He was a nightmare. I mean that. I was at my wits end with him every.single.day. He really challenged my ideals as a parent, daily. I found myself really examining our discipline methods and nothing ever worked consistantly. My DH and I found that cycling discipline methods has worked well for us. Not all of it is gentle, I might add. The majority of it is, and we strive to stay on that course but there are times when you are just sent to the edge of your sanity with kids! We are back on the time outs right now. Age 3 was lovely for the most part, and 4 is proving difficult again. But another thing that has worked for us is a sticker chart with a prize at the end of it. At the end of each day we would asess whether it was a good day or a bad day. The chart kept him on course and while I know that some poeple frown on rewards, he still talks about it and the prize he got at the end. I think it was a great learning experience.

So, just wanted to say.....keep your chin up and forget the naysayers. I think spirited children challenge us, but it is the children with broken spirits that are so very sad. That kind of damage is irreversible. Your kids bring into adulthood how they were treated as children (I am re-reading Naomi Aldort's Raising your children Raising Yourself right now)

[Adaline'sMama]

I saw your post and I couldnt not respond. I am already dealing with people (family members, fairweather friends, and people who come into my retail store) being judgmental about the way I choose to parent (i.e. picking up my 6 month old pretty much anytime shes fussing, and being told that she'll grow up to be whiney if I keep doing it). I feel like the only thing to do in the situation where other people are making judgments about your style of parenting is to kindly tell them to butt out. Ive begun using the following responses:
"Thank you, Ill keep that in mind."
"Well, thanks for your opinion, but this is really a desicion for me and DH to make"
"Im sure your way works great for you, but we've chosen a differnent method"
"Im sorry if her behavior bothers you, its a good thing she lives at my house"(that one was for MIL )

[amandanmv]

My mom is one of those people that say "If you'd just spank him more then he'd learn to do right" It made me soooo mad. We actually tried spanking and realized that it didn't work with him, so we tried time-outs, redirection and just firm speaking. I could preach til I was blue in the face that I do get on to him all the time for the things he's doing that are wrong and that he just doesn't respond to anything we've tried but no one would listen. We recently found out he's autistic with ADHD so now hopefully those people will realize that he'll require a different method of discipline (more positive reinforcement) and they'll shutup trying to backseat parent!

[happysmileylady]

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what discipline methods you use...people will comment on it and a lot of those comments will be negative. If you don't spank, there will be people who will say that your kids act out because of that. If you do spank there will be other people that will say that they are acting out because they get spanked. If you use time outs, there will be people commenting on that. People just love to comment on other folks parenting methods.

[MovnMama]

A lot of the advice here for dealing with naysayers is great - mostly to say "thanks but it's my kid." This non-engaging response is probably great for most situations, especially with acquaintances or public places.

For people whom you would consider engaging, I would let them know that the adage that children usually have a "terrible twos" and those that don't usually have a "terrible teens." There was a research study that verified - children who are rough in the toddler/preschool years are typically not rough as teens, and vice-versa. Just an anecdotal example...

I had very NON-GD parents, and I was spanked (a few times only) but was parented with mostly fear. I was (and still am) a highly anxious person and I constantly worried about many many things, including whether or not I was going to get in "trouble," and not knowing if I was doing wrong, so I just shouldn't touch or do anything. VERY mild as a child. I remember if I accidentally spilled milk at the dinner table, I was in trouble, and made to feel guilty, and would cry inside (I would get yelled at if I cried outwardly - "why are you crying!?). My parents still talk about how amazed they were at how GOOD I was. It was all about control - I didn't have it, and I knew it.

Flash-forward to 14. I somehow realized that there were decisions I could make that my parents just simply couldn't do anything about (short of lock me in a closet, in which I case I would run away - really, I had thought it out). I had my first taste of autonomy (at 14!) and went absolutely wild. I mean I was really bad. Not just attitude, but really high-risk and dangerous behaviors. I mean, I outgrew it, and now I'm a functional adult with a Master's Degree. But for a while there, the rebellion was on.

I directly correlate my teen behaviors with my lack of empowerment and autonomy as a child. I hope to heaven that I teach my child to make appropriate decisions and exert control over his life while the stakes are still relatively low.

So, tell people... would you rather have a rough time with your preschooler, or a heinous rebelling teenager? I think it's best to pay it forward.

[moondiapers]

They may perceive that you aren't doing anything but armchair parenting. When my kids are doing things like that I physically get in their way. If they are touching things in the store or somewhere that it's not appropriate, I phsycially prevent then from doing so while telling them it's not ok. If I have to I hold their hand, or pick them up, or just block them with my body while talking to them about what they were doing. I just flat out don't allow the behavior.