Question about Dunbar's method

[AAK]

Since I was able to download these books, I have read them first. I went ahead and bought kongs and some other stuffable chew toys. It seems really nuts that all their food comes from these things. Maybe our pups are too small for these puppy toys because when I actually get food to stay in (without just falling straight out of the hole), then they don't seem able to chew hard enough to get it out. And I really didn't just want treats in them. Not that I haven't tried those too. I have only tried dried dog food, some harder style treats, and a kong bar. The kong bar stays in but the pups don't even pay attention to it.

If you used this aspect of Dunbar's method WITH small dogs (right now they are 2-3 pounds each) can you give me some pointers. I finally just started feeding them from a bowl. They don't seem to have the issues with the bowl though that Dunbar implies. I measure out what they get for the day and put just a bit of it in the bowl at a time throughout the day. I do put a bit of soft canned food in for "breakfast" but am phasing out the soft since they can finally chew the dry. Before, I put it there for breakfast and dinner because throughout the day they would chew on the dry but not make any progress. They are 10 weeks now.

Amy

[greenmagick]

Dunbar's books go over and beyond....but if you read between the lines, I believe its because he expects people to do less than suggested, so he suggests more than needed.

No, every meal does not have to be in a kong or handfed. However, it is a good idea for food not always to be just in a bowl and to make them work for it a bit. Especially when young, so many rewards are given throughout the day it can really add up...best to use kibble when possible and take it out of the daily ration.

[Heavenly]

When I got to the part about all feeds being from a Kong or handfed I put the book down and looked for something more sensible. JMHO. I prefer Cesar Millan's Raising the Perfect Dog, I'm actually re-reading it right now.

[greenmagick]

The reason you handfeed and feed from a kong is to keep the dog working for food and to keep the owner aware of all the training possibilities. Very easy to do and very sensible. Resource guarding is a very common problem and doing that pretty mu h guarantees it won't happen.

Millan stresses the importance over owner being in charge of food as well. Pretty much across the board, food is a valuable resource. Use that to your advantage.

Now, I feed raw so didn't use a kong and really didn't handfeed. But I do make sue to walk by the bowl and randomly drop extra treats in. And they have to be polite about feeding time and wait for me to free them before eating.

Dunbar feeding methods seem to really scare and confuse people for some reason and I am not quite sure why. Regardless, that is really a small portionof what the book is about. The most important part of it is bite inhibition.

[stardogs]

Wholeheartedly agree with what Nicole said above! Dunbar certainly is the extreme end on some things, but if you even do most of the things part time you'll get great results. I think he really shines when it comes to housetraining and reliable basic skills.

I do recommend that my clients with puppies use Kongs and similar treat dispensing toys for at least one meal/day if at all possible and my youngest dog ate exclusively out of treat dispensing toys from about 4 months until 8 months of age.

Kongs are the most commonly available, but to keep the food in I would mix the kibble I was using with a related canned food and then freeze. Since that can be quite time consuming, I switched to treat dispensing toys that allow me to just use plain kibble. My favorites include all of the Busy Buddy line of toys (available at Target and various online retailers), Treatstik, Buster Cube, Tricky Treat Ball, Ruffwear's Sqwash, and the Kong Genius toys.

[AAK]

Ok, but did anyone have dogs that literally couldn't get the food out of the kong? We bought the kong meant for puppies (not just small dogs), but they can't get the food out. I bought some other brands too--can't remember which (I will look up the ones that stardogs mentioned) but they still can't get the food out. I was trying to use kibble--but it fell out of the kong and got stuck in a different toy. Part of me wants to cut the end off a squeak toy and stuff that.

Amy

[AAK]

Originally Posted by Heavenly

When I got to the part about all feeds being from a Kong or handfed I put the book down and looked for something more sensible. JMHO. I prefer Cesar Millan's Raising the Perfect Dog, I'm actually re-reading it right now.

I have placed a hold on it (and other books mentioned) at the library. I am using Dunbars one right now because it was immediately available. I think some stuff makes sense, but other stuff is odd (to me anyways).

amy

[greenmulberry]

I have found that if they are not motivated to get the food out of the kong, they just aren't hungry anymore. If I have a dog that just truly cannot empty one, I put plain kibble in it which will fall out easily with a nose bump. That way they learn the game.


I do like my dogs to have an association to the kong, but I don't think you need to feed every meal from one. They are great ways to teach a dog to love their kennel though, if you give them in a kennel.

[AAK]

Originally Posted by greenmulberry

I do like my dogs to have an association to the kong, but I don't think you need to feed every meal from one. They are great ways to teach a dog to love their kennel though, if you give them in a kennel.

Right now, the dogs do like their kennel. They sleep in it together at night. It is also available throughout the day. The kids are not allowed to take them out of the kennel. The dogs have figured this out and if they are tired of the kids, they go to their kennel.

For feeding, since I started using a bowl a while back (when I discovered that they ate nothing with the kong method), they now sit (on command) until their food is set down. Then, I let them eat. I didn't like them jumping on me or each other to get to their food, so this was the solution that I came up with on my own. Now they seem very well mannered about the food. I used to let a bit of dry food stay available all day, but I changed that today. I decided that if they need a 'snack' they can use the kong. I am hoping that will help with housebreaking.

My real areas of concern are chewing and housebreaking. That is why I was revisiting the kong food method. They haven't gotten destructive yet at all, but they love to chew on anything they find. So, I thought if I could get that kong thing to work. . . we might prevent the destructive chewing.

I don't think the kong thing is relevant to housebreaking--I think I have a solution now. Both Dunbar and the other guy (Millan) mention not letting them all over the place at the beginning because it it easy to miss cues. They both also mention being very routine/scheduled about potty breaks. Though they are also a bit different--in these respects they are the same. And, we have let the dogs have almost free reign in the house. That stopped today and we have been more clockwork about bringing them out. So, I think this is going in the right direction now. No poop inside yet! (today anyways)

Thanks for the help and advice! I am getting better at the kong stuffing. They are getting more interested in it.

Amy

[Mirzam]

I have an 11 week old English Mastiff, so not a small dog by any stretch of the imagination! The Kong method doesn't really work for us because I feed him raw meaty bones (prey model) so won't stuff the kong with kibble or peanut butter. I do stuff it with ground beef and then freeze it, but I have found it keeps him occupied for maybe ten minutes. We are also still working on house training, and we tend to have poop accidents when I am not paying enough attention. I try to take him out very regularly. As a giant breed puppy, he isn't terribly active, he sleeps a lot, so I get him outside as soon as he wakes from a nap. I only let him have free reign when I can watch him, if I can't watch him he goes in his crate, somewhat reluctantly, except at night when him is happy to. This is our first puppy and it is quite a learning curve. I can't imagine dealing with two.