Math ideas needed please

[OTMomma]

Dd is 8, and math has been a struggle for us for years and I can't exactly explain it. Dd seems to have a good grasp of math concepts, understanding fractions, negative numbers, all kinds of stuff in conversation, but math at our home is a struggle. Dd has a very very hard time writting an answer to a math problem- it seems to be both a factor of the writing skill (hard for her) and something else. My current approach to math is that she has to do worksheets fromt the Miquon book once a week, once a week she listens to stories from Penrose the Mathmatical Cat which she loves, and one day she plays a computer game to help her memorize her times tables- though that gives her a challenge in that she often types 81 instead of 18 for exmple.

Dh and I want dd to have the basic math skills she would need to have to enter public school on grade level if she ever needs to, but I don't want to make us all miserable. When dd was younger we played games to learn simple adding and subtracting, and she was good at them, but even those are hard for her to put on paper now it seems. And I don't know how to play with math as a child moves into more complex ideas. She does find higher level math ideas interesting, even likes word problems sometimes, but basic calculations... no.

Anyone have any ideas for me? I would appreciate any thoughts of a different way of doing things or how to deal with math, because I feel like this situation makes no sense.

TIA,

[moominmamma]

You could try using a whiteboard, perhaps with different colours representing different place value. So the tens are always red and the ones are always green, or some such convention. Or using a grid system, either on a white board or on paper, to help her line up the digits properly. Have you had her vision checked? How is her reading and writing of text? Does she struggle with left/right issues or reversals elsewhere?

Miranda

[PGTlatte]

Warning: I'm old fashioned.

If she is having trouble with basic calculations, in writing, I would go back to the beginning. Make sure she knows the concept of all the numbers. Make sure she knows the concept of addition enough to do simple addition with manipulatives, and on a number line. Then I would get busy having her memorize all the basic addition facts. I would also want all work done on paper...if that is the hardest thing for her to do, and you really want her to be able to do it, then I would give her tons of practice on paper. Computer stuff is fun - but I have personally seen my own son be able to figure out answers on a computer, but not be able to do the same work on paper. Since I want him to be able to do it on paper, I have him study and practice on paper.

I know memorizing basic facts is controversial - many people will say it's a waste of time and that they will eventually learn them all without purposely memorizing them. Well, I gave our DS1 over a year of frequent practice with addition worksheets and he never even committed 2+3 or 3+4 to memory. Written work was hard and slow for him because he had nothing memorized and he was grinding it out over and over again, counting by ones each time. So now I've spent the last two months helping him memorize and math is so much easier for him now. It has been time well spent. Not one minute of it wasted.

(Came back to add - I first had him memorize them verbally while looking at a flash card, with memory tricks we made up for the ones he had trouble with - and lots of repetition verbally - then started verbally helping him do them on paper - then finally moved to just paper. )

After addition facts are memorized, I would do subtraction starting with manipulatives, and then "fact families" of addition and subtraction facts that go together. After the "fact families" concept has been practiced with plenty of worksheets, I would go on to general subtraction by itself, and then random mixed addition and subtraction basic fact problems. After those are all easy, I would do lots of word problems using basic addition and subtraction facts, then go on to addition and subtraction with "regrouping".

I would not go into multiplication or division until addition and subtraction are super easy.

I am also not going on to operations with fractions with our kids until they have a handle on basic multiplication and division.

I am using Singapore Math textbooks and their "challenging word problems" books. For worksheets, I am generating them at worksheetworks.com.

BTW I consider the "basic facts" for addition and subtraction to be only adding numbers 1-10 to each other, and subtraction problems that begin with a number less than 20 and only subtract a number of 10 or less, that will result in an answer of 10 or less. So I would not consider 19-8 to be a "basic fact" because the answer would be more than 10. I would not go into those subtraction problems with 2-digit numbers subtracted or 2-digit answers (besides 10) until after the basic facts are all easy and quick to do. I do include problems with numbers and answers up to 10 because those have helped my son get the concept of adding or subtracting 10.

For multiplication I will teach it first as repeated addition, and then as couting squares on a grid. For memorizing multiplication facts, I love the Timez Attack game. But I'm planning on lots of work on paper, and word problems, worked out on paper for that too.

[yllek]

I've noticed that my ds has a much, much harder time getting to the answer in a math problem when he has to write the answer. It is infinitely easier for him to point to a card, say the answer, move magnetic numbers around, build an answer with manipulatives, etc. than to write the numerals or equations. Also, he has both a language processing disorder and some vision processing issues. Both may contribute to his problems keeping the fact families straight or recalling basic answers. (Btw, ds is just 6, so I know his age is also an issue, as we are just beginning our math studies).

Anyway, is there some for you to move math off the paper, so she can move forward with a conceptual understanding of math and practice her math facts without complicating the issue with writing, if that's difficult for her? She can still get some practice with worksheets and writing out answers, but maybe that can just be a small part of her math time, while the rest of the time she can work verbally or with number cards or magnetic numbers.

[OTMomma]

Thank you all for the replies- its actually nice to just know that other people struggle with some of this too.

All written work is hard for dd- we did a year of OT to work on her fine motor skills before I was able to teach her to write her numbers or letters. Handwriting is improving, but it is still a hard task for her. For that, we've gone with a CM approach of letting her just work on copying a lot lately to build her skills.

She has had basic vision tests- nothing amiss with those, and she reads on a 5th grade level.

I do like the idea of getting a set of magnetic numbers to work on drilling her on addition and subtration facts- taking that extra hard step of writing out of it at times. I do want to make her do some of it written each week, to help her develop that skill- she reverses numbers, writing them like a mirror image still, but maybe mixing things up even more would be good. Though I'm honestly not sure she can memorize the basic addition facts- I still haven't been able to get her to memorize our phone number- though we've tried and tried- numbers just seem to run out of her brain like she's got a teflon coating.

It really is the weirdest thing- I can ask her how many scoops with a 1/4 cup measureing cup I would need to get to 2 1/2 cups, and she can do it in her head, really any word problem is fine, but stuff with just numbers is too abstract or something.