What is the legal line between "my body" and "Father's Rights"?

[kblackstone444]

For those of you who don't know my story... Dated a guy for two months who turned abusive and possesive. Got talked into sex, got pregnant by accident. Guy was very possesive of me and my son from the very beginning- within a week of dating, trying to talk me into seeing what I could do to have my son in HIS custody instead of my ex-Husband's (not my son's Bio-Father, but my son's acting Father for most his life) if something were to happen to me, telling me what to do, when to do it, only allowing certain food to be bought, certain house rules in MY house, etc. Basically, I wasn't his "girlfriend", I was his "property". When he found out I was pregnant, he became very possessive of the unborn child, insisting he was gonna file for full custody upon birth, etc. (Putting that in there to emphasize what kind of "father" he will be, what kind of "co-parent" he will be, what kind of "boyfriend" he was.)

He's emailing me again. He wants to be there at the birth. If I don't let him, I'm "keeping the child from it's father". I don't want him there because the sight of him makes me sick, and I'm not up for having any more audience than necessary watching me in my most vulnerable posistion. He wants to come over and feel the baby move by touching my stomach. If I don't let him, I'm "keeping the child from it's father". I don't want him touching me, period. Not going into details, but it never felt good when he touched me before, it was always as a form of control. He wants to watch me nurse when the baby's born. I'm all for breastfeeding, but I'm a modest person- I like to cover up, I certainly don't want to expose myself to HIM. He doesn't really want to see the baby nurse, he wants to oogle my boobs (I know this from a past relationship where he told me babies should be given breastmilk, but from bottles, 'cause boobs are for men and he can't wait until I breastfeed the baby 'cause it's gonna get him so turned on), but if I don't let him watch, I'm "keeping the child from it's father".

How much can he force me to do, if he brought me to court? Could he actually use the "keeping the child from it's father" in a way that makes me look bad, and him better, for custody or visitation? He's trying to play the "I just want to be a Dad to my child and she's preventing me from bonding with the child" card, and I know alot of judges fall for it.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

ugh, god! I just threw up in my mouth..........

You are not keeping the child from its father until its born. He is not allowed to touch you, not allowed to be there during the birth unless you want him there, and not allowed for ANY REASON to watch you nurse your child. BLECK, that just seriously gave me the creeps!

Have you considered a RO against this poor excuse for a man/UAV?? There has got to be grounds somewhere for one of those.

[Avani]

He can't do anything. You don't want him at the birth, watching you nurse, touching your belly that is totally your choice alone. Keep in mind you were never married, he can not even prove it is his child until after the birth. Stop talking to him in every way until after the baby is born. He sounds dangerous.

[Mackenzie]

He is completely full of $h!t... He has no legal rights to your body regardless of whose child you are gestating. You are under no obligation to subject yourself to unwanted touch or exposure under any circumstances. Period.

[Halfasianmomma]

I don't believe that his parental rights come into play until baby is actually born...hence, you can (and SHOULD) keep him far away from you until the baby is born. No way should he be present when you are at your most vulnerable.

What is your birth plan so far? Will you have a doula? Do you have a doctor or midwife? If so, I would recommend talking to your doc/midwife right away and explain the situation to him/her in no uncertain terms...i.e. "the father's baby is an abusive man that I have left and I DO NOT want him at the birth".

Keep all details about the birth and other medical follow-up appointments secret. You do not owe him anything, especially considering his abusive tendencies.

I strongly recommend going No Contact until well after baby is born. As Avani stated, you were never married so the onus of proving paternity falls to him.

[MissLotus]

He's disgusting and manipulative and he's full of it, legally.

He is also harrassing you. I strongly advise that you consult with a lawyer so that you empower yourself by knowing YOUR rights, and that you tell your doctor/midwife/whatever that you do not want this person anywhere near you in labor. I would also advise cutting off contact with him for now. Have a lawyer tell him that he'll be notified of the baby's birth. And for heaven's sake, please DO NOT give him details about when/where, etc. Refuse to speak with him on the phone or in person. If he shows up, call the police.

As for his harrassment up until now, you can go right now to the police department, as a non-emergency and tell them that you would like to file a police report about this person, that he continues to harrass and threaten you. They may ask whether or not you would like action taken on this right now, and that is up to you, but at the very least get it ON PAPER at the station. Your ex doesn't even have to know about it right now, but you want to create a paper trail. He will use threats to try and get you to talk to him, but by now you know it's utter garbage (he needs to form a bond with the baby WHILE you are giving birth and nursing?) and that's just the type of person he is. It's hard not to be nervous when such a person is making threats, but his threats are not credible. Please stop speaking with him and get the facts from the professionals, not from him!

[kblackstone444]

Originally Posted by Barbie64g

Have you considered a RO against this poor excuse for a man/UAV?? There has got to be grounds somewhere for one of those.

Very much considered it. The problem with that is, then he will definitely be unsupervised with the baby during visitation, able to take the baby wherever he wants, including to his home, where he lives with his abusive Mother. The baby will be in emotional danger, possibly physical danger, and definitely neglect, though mostly not in ways I can prove in court. I'm trying to strongly encourage liberal visitation, at my house without a court order, for as long as possible. It's a fine line, mostly likely I'll lose, anyways, but him feeling "welcomed" over for dinner three nights a week or so is so much more bearable than handing my baby over to HIM, for several hours at a time, probably several times a week, without me there to keep an eye on things (and document). A restraining order would make that impossible.

[kblackstone444]

Originally Posted by Halfasianmomma

If so, I would recommend talking to your doc/midwife right away and explain the situation to him/her in no uncertain terms...i.e. "the father's baby is an abusive man that I have left and I DO NOT want him at the birth".

Keep all details about the birth and other medical follow-up appointments secret. You do not owe him anything, especially considering his abusive tendencies.

Originally Posted by MissLotus

As for his harrassment up until now, you can go right now to the police department, as a non-emergency and tell them that you would like to file a police report about this person, that he continues to harrass and threaten you. They may ask whether or not you would like action taken on this right now, and that is up to you, but at the very least get it ON PAPER at the station. Your ex doesn't even have to know about it right now, but you want to create a paper trail.

Way ahead of you two there!

[Mackenzie]

Out of curiosity, what would happen if you pretend he just doesn't exist? For like, ever? Don't respond to him, don't advise him of birth, nothing. You were not married so he has no inherent rights and would have to pursue everything through legal channels. Is he motivated enough to do that?

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

YEA THAT. Sounds like a good start to me!

[Avani]

Originally Posted by kblackstone444

Very much considered it. The problem with that is, then he will definitely be unsupervised with the baby during visitation, able to take the baby wherever he wants, including to his home, where he lives with his abusive Mother. The baby will be in emotional danger, possibly physical danger, and definitely neglect, though mostly not in ways I can prove in court. I'm trying to strongly encourage liberal visitation, at my house without a court order, for as long as possible. It's a fine line, mostly likely I'll lose, anyways, but him feeling "welcomed" over for dinner three nights a week or so is so much more bearable than handing my baby over to HIM, for several hours at a time, probably several times a week, without me there to keep an eye on things (and document). A restraining order would make that impossible.

Not true. When a restraining order is in place you may be able to get supervised visits by a professional supervisor. Also he isn't just going to be able to take the baby period. If you don't put him on the birth certificate it could take months for him to file to establish paternity and then after that any custody of the baby. If the baby is nursing this could stall even further. Why would you allow that man liberally in your home to visit that baby. That sounds dangerous and scary. I understand you wanting to be the supervisor but with a restraining order he may not get any custody for awhile or at least with supervision. Attempt to not put him on the birth certificate. Make him have to file and fight. the restraining order will help you in many ways.

[Ravin]

I did a bit of an internet search, and it looks like in New York, establishing paternity is done after birth. A name on the birth certificate isn't enough, the father must sign a legal document that he's the father, and if paternity is challenged must undergo paternity testing to establish proof. If it's him that's pushing for it, he'll have to pay for legal fees, testing, etc. out of pocket.

I would cut off all contact with him, file with the cops over his harassment, and not tell him a thing. Until paternity is established, after birth, you aren't denying him his rights one iota.

Also, consider that if there's grounds for a restraining order, there are probably grounds for limited/supervised visitation. If it's as bad as you say, you might also consider moving and not let him know where you're going, before the birth, as he'll then have to go to even more expense to find you. Either way, I'd talk to a lawyer about it. Often there are legal clinics at law schools or other pro bono legal aid available if you need it, especially just for a consultation.

[texmati]

Originally Posted by Mackenzie

He is completely full of $h!t... He has no legal rights to your body regardless of whose child you are gestating. You are under no obligation to subject yourself to unwanted touch or exposure under any circumstances. Period.

I belive this true. I think your ex is being disgusting.

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by Ravin

If it's as bad as you say, you might also consider moving and not let him know where you're going, before the birth, as he'll then have to go to even more expense to find you.

Honestly, if I were in your situation, and I had the means to move to an undisclosed location, that's what I would do (after getting a restraining order). He currently has no legal rights, and he will have to establish them after the birth should he care to do so. I would do everything in my power to make that as difficult for him as possible, and moving would definitely make it harder. It would mean forgoing child support, and it would mean claiming that you don't know who the father is should you ever apply for welfare or state health care benefits, but in your situation, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

If you were just in a situation where you guys broke up and you didn't like him very much, I'd give you very different advice, but what you talked about in your OP is very, very scary.

[papayapetunia]

I'd like to hear him try to tell a judge that he should be able to watch you breastfeed. That would go over well.

I hope you're documenting all this.

[Juvysen]

Originally Posted by eclipse

Honestly, if I were in your situation, and I had the means to move to an undisclosed location, that's what I would do (after getting a restraining order). He currently has no legal rights, and he will have to establish them after the birth should he care to do so. I would do everything in my power to make that as difficult for him as possible, and moving would definitely make it harder. It would mean forgoing child support, and it would mean claiming that you don't know who the father is should you ever apply for welfare or state health care benefits, but in your situation, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

If you were just in a situation where you guys broke up and you didn't like him very much, I'd give you very different advice, but what you talked about in your OP is very, very scary.

[MissLotus]

Originally Posted by Avani

Not true. When a restraining order is in place you may be able to get supervised visits by a professional supervisor. Also he isn't just going to be able to take the baby period. If you don't put him on the birth certificate it could take months for him to file to establish paternity and then after that any custody of the baby. If the baby is nursing this could stall even further. Why would you allow that man liberally in your home to visit that baby. That sounds dangerous and scary. I understand you wanting to be the supervisor but with a restraining order he may not get any custody for awhile or at least with supervision. Attempt to not put him on the birth certificate. Make him have to file and fight. the restraining order will help you in many ways.

Yes, I agree. I completely understand your fear, OP, and your intent to protect the baby. I did something very similar with my ex before we were divorced, because I was worried too. But you are several steps ahead of where I was: You are not married, so as the others have said, your ex has to establish paternity and he can't even begin to do that until the baby is born. You have zero obligation to speak to him; the ball is in his court and the only way he can pursue anything is legally, although he will try to accomplish his "goals" by harrassing you instead.

Just believe that any man who is truly interested in having a relationship with his child will do so by legal, proper means, because they will also want what's best for the child. Not by intimidating their ex. It sounds like your ex is much more interested in controlling YOU. Having him in your house is a bad, bad idea. (Again, I know because I've been there with a controlling ex). And no matter how reasonable you are, it will not be enough to stop him from threatening to take the baby when he wants to, anyway. It's never enough for this type of guy, because the idea is to control you and get things his way. It will just get ugly fast. And, if you let him in your home, it will be that much harder for you to tell a judge, "Well, he's always harrassed me, so..."

That's why it would behoove you to take legal action NOW. It will also make you a lot less interesting to your ex, if he knows that contact with you is severely limited. He won't get to say disgusting things to you, try to control your life, intimitate you... make it very boring for him by making it very legal.

[MeepyCat]

Legally speaking, right now, there is no baby, and your XBF therefore has no rights. He never has the right to touch you without your permission, nor does he have any right to watch what you do in private.

What you need, mama, is a lawyer. And you need one right now. This guy is a UAV now, he'll still be a UAV after the birth. Ideally, you want to be able to tell him that further requests and inquiries will have to be directed to your attorney.

And then change your phone number. Replace your cell if you gotta. Forward all email to your lawyer's office.

Were I in your shoes, I would check into RAINN (the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network) and whatever local domestic violence resources exist. If neither of those organizations can help you find a lawyer, try looking up your state Bar Association (they often have hotlines for referrals).

I think a restraining order would be very reasonable in these circumstances, and I agree that you should go ahead and drag your feet over paternity.

For how much he can force you to do: right now, very little. HIPPA regulations mean that medical information can only be given to him with your explicit consent, he may only attend your pre-natal checkups at your invitation, and I assure you that L&D staff have plenty of experience with having violent, unpleasant or unwelcome dads removed from the ward.

[kblackstone444]

Originally Posted by Mackenzie

Out of curiosity, what would happen if you pretend he just doesn't exist? For like, ever? Don't respond to him, don't advise him of birth, nothing. You were not married so he has no inherent rights and would have to pursue everything through legal channels. Is he motivated enough to do that?

He needs to prove paternity as soon as the baby's born or his Mother will disinherit him. I don't know if he has the money (his Mother does), but he will do whatever possible not to lose his inheritance. I suspect he would file for legal... whatever he can file for.

Originally Posted by Avani

Not true. When a restraining order is in place you may be able to get supervised visits by a professional supervisor. Also he isn't just going to be able to take the baby period. If you don't put him on the birth certificate it could take months for him to file to establish paternity and then after that any custody of the baby. If the baby is nursing this could stall even further. Why would you allow that man liberally in your home to visit that baby. That sounds dangerous and scary. I understand you wanting to be the supervisor but with a restraining order he may not get any custody for awhile or at least with supervision. Attempt to not put him on the birth certificate. Make him have to file and fight. the restraining order will help you in many ways.

My sister was in a similar situation, only her daughter was older. Her ex beat her and then choked her while she was holding my then 2 year old niece. He got supervised, then unsupervised, then supervised visitation with my neice for the next 5 years. It was finally stopped when my niece was simply too big of a child for the people supervising the visit to physically carry a 7 1/2 year old girl in to her father crying, kicking and screaming. And she had a much more violent situation with him than me with my ex, and much more physical proof as well. I have very little faith in the court system.

Luckily, I am still legally married to my Husband, who is not the baby's Father. Neither of us have bothered to file any kind of court papers, even though we both have technically moved on. I plan on using the fact that my Husband will be the legal Father upon birth to stall the baby's Father. I plan on leaving no Father's name on the birth certificate. My Husband and I are still friends, he is very concerned about me and the baby, so he is willing to wait as long as possible until he signs the Affidavit of Denial of Paternity. My ex can do nothing until that is signed. I don't know how long we can stall that, though, 'cause I will be on, at the very least, Food Stamps and Medicaid, so they will try to suck child support out of my Husband if they believe he is the Father. Once he's proven not the Father, they will want to know who is, so that they can get the child support out of somebody. I can't lie and say I don't know who it is, because then I could permanently lose benefits. That's the best stall tactic I have as of yet.

Originally Posted by papayapetunia

I hope you're documenting all this.

I am.

Originally Posted by MeepyCat

Were I in your shoes, I would check into RAINN (the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network) and whatever local domestic violence resources exist. If neither of those organizations can help you find a lawyer, try looking up your state Bar Association (they often have hotlines for referrals).

I will look into it. I need a free lawyer. I have hardly enough money for food, have barely bought anything for the baby yet. I can't afford a lawyer.

[Avani]

Well you need to realize that these cases are all very different. Depends on circumstances, the judges mood, the history. etc. the worse you can do is file and not get one and then he does something awful and you go back to court with the history and then you get a long term one. Mine was turned down the first time with an extensive abusive history and police reports. The second time i was given a three year one. You never know and it can't hurt to try.