What is the legal line between "my body" and "Father's Rights"? - Page 2

[Juvysen]

I'm sure this depends on the state... but...

if you aren't going to try and get child support from the birth father...

I believe as long as long as the father pays *something* it's like an 8 week cycle before he *has* to pay something again - that is, fathers can really take advantage of the system, in terms of child support...

So, I guess, as long as your ex-dh (who is a friend?) is willing to help you get out of a sticky situation, you could technically not have him sign anything that says it's not his baby... and just keep the status quo in terms of child support. That is, make an agreement with your ex-dh to keep paying for the same amount (for the child you have with him)... and wouldn't that block the actual birth father from being able to sue for paternity rights if your dh never signs something saying he's NOT the father? I guess if you want to totally block this dude, that might be one way to go about it... just essentially claim that your current husband IS the baby's father.

So basically, if they try and "go after him" for more money, he should be able to stick with what he's still paying because of the stupid loopholes (that are generally hard on single mothers whose ex partners pay the minimum, but may be used to your advantage in talking him into this, this time...)

Maybe I'm missing something here. Sorry if it's not clear what I mean...

[kblackstone444]

Originally Posted by Juvysen

I'm sure this depends on the state... but...

if you aren't going to try and get child support from the birth father...

I believe as long as long as the father pays *something* it's like an 8 week cycle before he *has* to pay something again - that is, fathers can really take advantage of the system, in terms of child support...

So, I guess, as long as your ex-dh (who is a friend?) is willing to help you get out of a sticky situation, you could technically not have him sign anything that says it's not his baby... and just keep the status quo in terms of child support. That is, make an agreement with your ex-dh to keep paying for the same amount (for the child you have with him)... and wouldn't that block the actual birth father from being able to sue for paternity rights if your dh never signs something saying he's NOT the father? I guess if you want to totally block this dude, that might be one way to go about it... just essentially claim that your current husband IS the baby's father.

So basically, if they try and "go after him" for more money, he should be able to stick with what he's still paying because of the stupid loopholes (that are generally hard on single mothers whose ex partners pay the minimum, but may be used to your advantage in talking him into this, this time...)

Maybe I'm missing something here. Sorry if it's not clear what I mean...

I think I get what you mean. I've never heard of that before, definitely worth looking for some similar loophole. My ExHusband is not my first son's Biological Father, so he's not paying child support, however he is paying unofficial support (kinda like alimony- his idea). Perhaps I can talk him into some kind of trade-in. Hell, I'd give my ExHusband the money back each month after they sent it to me if it meant keeping the baby's father out of my life!

[~Em~]

OK, I haven't read the replies...

1) Get a restraining order against him immediately. Even if it's denied, your request will be on record. Request again if it's denied.
2) Keep ALL texts and emails from him. Avoid speaking via telephone and suggest he email you instead.
3) Keep a calendar with a record of any and all harassing contacts from him - if he calls multiple times to annoy you, etc.
4) Child support and visitation are NOT CONNECTED. He can ask for visitation even if you don't ask for child support. Likewise, you cannot deny visitation even if he ordered to pay but fails to do so. Further YOU are not entitled to any child support - legally it is the right of the CHILD.
5) You are not required to have anyone in the birthing room with you, nor are you required to let anyone visit you in the hospital. Let the staff know that he is not welcome and they will contact security upon his arrival. You are certainly not required to let him see your breasts under any circumstance - in the manner he is demanding, that is a form of sexual abuse (no BFing is not sexual for mom, but if it is for others and he is coercing you to do it, then yes, it's wrong).
6) Contact a women's shelter in your area - they will be able to direct you to a lawyer on staff or who works with them that can tell you your rights and responsibilities in your state. Do it now before the baby arrives so you can have everything set up.
7) Let family members know that he is intimidating and harassing you - they will be able to testify that they were aware of the circumstances down the road if need be.

(((Hugs)))

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Originally Posted by kblackstone444

Hell, I'd give my ExHusband the money back each month after they sent it to me if it meant keeping the baby's father out of my life!

I was actually going to suggest this, but didnt want to sound like a complete idiot if it wasnt possible.

[Pumpkin_Pie]

Originally Posted by Barbie64g

I was actually going to suggest this, but didnt want to sound like a complete idiot if it wasnt possible.

Yup, I was going to suggest the exact same thing last night, but was afraid to sound like an idiot as well. I think this would be a fabulous solution. Your ex-husband sounds like an excellent resource for you. So glad he is in your life, and I am so very sorry you have your crazy ex in your life right now. What a frightening thing to have to deal with while you are pregnant.

Just wanted to mention that if you give birth in the hospital, you can check in anonymously and noone can possibly know that you are a patient there. I had a friend who had to do that once due to a crazy ex and the only way to go see her was to go to directly to the floor where she was and tell them that I wanted to see her by giving them her full name and her room number. Then the nurses would come to her room, ask if she wanted to see me and if she did, they sent me down the hall to her room. I was also there when a flower delivery guy came, and they came down and said, "there is a guy here with a foreign accent and a bouquet of flowers, do you want him to come deliver them?" She said no, so they simply said they couldn't tell him whether she was there or not, so he left the flowers and they brought them down to her later. Easy Peasy and no unannounced visitors at all.

[Mackenzie]

If you guys (xh and yourself) are amicable enough, and he is that concerned about you (and baby), I would keep it up also. I am more for "fathers rights" than most (my dad had sole custody of me from the age of 3, in a time when it was less common than it is now) but it sounds that nothing good can come from this guy. His desires on how to be involved are creepy at best, and his bottom line concern is his inheritance, which means that his mother is, apparently, bsc also... That's an epic double-rainbow fail...

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Ravin

I did a bit of an internet search, and it looks like in New York, establishing paternity is done after birth. A name on the birth certificate isn't enough, the father must sign a legal document that he's the father, and if paternity is challenged must undergo paternity testing to establish proof. If it's him that's pushing for it, he'll have to pay for legal fees, testing, etc. out of pocket.

I would cut off all contact with him, file with the cops over his harassment, and not tell him a thing. Until paternity is established, after birth, you aren't denying him his rights one iota.

Also, consider that if there's grounds for a restraining order, there are probably grounds for limited/supervised visitation. If it's as bad as you say, you might also consider moving and not let him know where you're going, before the birth, as he'll then have to go to even more expense to find you. Either way, I'd talk to a lawyer about it. Often there are legal clinics at law schools or other pro bono legal aid available if you need it, especially just for a consultation.

Yes, with one addition (I'm in NY, and my ex is on my son's bc). The father must BE PRESENT and the MOTHER AND FATHER must sign an acknowledgment of paternity AT THE BIRTH in order for the father to be on the bc. We messed up our original acknowledgment of paternity and got a BC without his name, and then had to file a second one to get his name on it. It was some dang technicality like I didn't sign it until the day after ds was born and didn't back date it (I was out of it ok? ANd really tired.)

So, if he's not at the birth (DO NOT LET HIM) he won't be on the BC. Oh well, to bad.

ETA - I'd forgotten that your exh is the PRESUMED father and will go on the BC. That means getting this other guy on the BC is going to be a HUGE HUGE hassle ON TOP OF what I outlined above as the hassle we went through to get my ex on the bc. Seriously, it was a PITA, and your situation is more of a PITA. And, to top it off, in NY, if your exh (willingly) takes on a "father" role to this child, it would be even more difficult for either of them to change it. Contact a lawyer. Talk about your options.

[Halfasianmomma]

Originally Posted by thyra

So, if he's not at the birth (DO NOT LET HIM) he won't be on the BC. Oh well, to bad.

Yes!

[kblackstone444]

Originally Posted by thyra

Yes, with one addition (I'm in NY, and my ex is on my son's bc). The father must BE PRESENT and the MOTHER AND FATHER must sign an acknowledgment of paternity AT THE BIRTH in order for the father to be on the bc. We messed up our original acknowledgment of paternity and got a BC without his name, and then had to file a second one to get his name on it. It was some dang technicality like I didn't sign it until the day after ds was born and didn't back date it (I was out of it ok? ANd really tired.)

So, if he's not at the birth (DO NOT LET HIM) he won't be on the BC. Oh well, to bad.

ETA - I'd forgotten that your exh is the PRESUMED father and will go on the BC. That means getting this other guy on the BC is going to be a HUGE HUGE hassle ON TOP OF what I outlined above as the hassle we went through to get my ex on the bc. Seriously, it was a PITA, and your situation is more of a PITA. And, to top it off, in NY, if your exh (willingly) takes on a "father" role to this child, it would be even more difficult for either of them to change it. Contact a lawyer. Talk about your options.

deleted

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by kblackstone444

Oh, the baby's father will not be at the birth. ... As soon as his name is on there, I will have to fight for custody, 'cause without papers stating I have custody, he will be able to legally take the baby out of daycare during the day, if he were to think of it. Another reason why I'm afraid to go the whole Welfare/Food Stamp/Medicaid route- if he takes a paternity test through DSS, will his name automatically be added to the Birth Certificate? ...

Ok, if baby LIVES in NY - he will have to file in NY for paternity (b/c the plae the child lives is the place that has jurisdiction - not the place the BC was filed). This is NOT something that happens overnight. It will take MONTHS to get done. And it can ONLY happen AFTER the baby is born - so if he doesn't even know, you don't have to worry until he finds out. AFAIK he has to go to court, you have to be SERVED papers, you both have to APPEAR in court, there has to be an ORDER issued for a DNA test by the judge you appear in front of, the DNA test has to be completed, and a judge has to ORDER the BC changed. Complicated process right? Most likely the SOONEST it would all be done is when your baby is 4 months old.

You need to meet with some lawyers so that you know what your rights are. So that you know if all this happens you can get temp stipulations that say you have sole custody. You can't just go along. And yes, in NY both parents are presumed to have equal rights until there is a court ORDER stating otherwise.

I'm with Latte Mama and I edited my post to take out the info she mentioned deleting.

[Latte Mama]

Mama, it might be a good idea to edit/delete some of that info in post 29. I'm in NY and I can probably guess which hospital you are going to deliver at. It's been known to happen that some exes look up internet info.

[wookie]

take any precaution that you can evem if it seems far fetched.

[Mbella]

Originally Posted by Latte Mama

Mama, it might be a good idea to edit/delete some of that info in post 29. I'm in NY and I can probably guess which hospital you are going to deliver at. It's been known to happen that some exes look up internet info.

I agree. I think I know exactly which hospital you are talking about.

[mommaklo]

as far as a lawyer goes, my sis got in a petty legal bind that turned into all out chaos and a friend of hers recommended contacting lawyers in the area and asking for help. Apparently, and I dont know if this is just the state she lives in which is different from mine, but lawyers are required (?) pro bono hrs each year. She actually got someone to represent her for free and her case was dropped (a good thing). I would look into that. Make some calls. I know girls who feel that things like this are wrong, but that they dont want to piss off their babies father. My good friend had her ds father in the delivery room when he was born tho they were no longer together and he brought and ate a stinky plate of enchiladas from his new girlfriends mom! righta after the baby was born. Even tho my friend was gagging at the smell. Loser. I guess that was a bold example of how men feel the need to be included, but dont value the situations the way women do, or women want them too. Im not mentioning this just to keep this douche away from your birth.
Push past any guilt you may still be harboring about the situation even if you are too uncomfortable to admit it now, and keep him away from you and your kids. I can GUARANTEE it you wont regret it. And I would not invite him over for dinner. I know when living this situation its easy to hear what you should do, but so much harder to do it sometimes, but seriously, you let him back in and where do you draw the line? What happens if hes over for dinner and baby needs to eat? It makes me sick to think of someone getting off on watching something that is so vulnerable and vital.
And really, he lives with his mother but shes gonna drop him immediately if his name isnt on a birth certificate? Sure he didnt just make this up to make you feel bad? Did he promise you some of the inheritance if you make the baby legally his as well? If so, just more manipulation......
And there is a HUGE line between your body and a "fathers" rights. HUGE. You call the shots.

[~Em~]

Originally Posted by mommaklo

as far as a lawyer goes, my sis got in a petty legal bind that turned into all out chaos and a friend of hers recommended contacting lawyers in the area and asking for help. Apparently, and I dont know if this is just the state she lives in which is different from mine, but lawyers are required (?) pro bono hrs each year. She actually got someone to represent her for free and her case was dropped (a good thing).

Lawyers are not required to do any pro bono work in most (if not all) states, but many do. Obviously you want someone with particular experience in this type of work, though - even well practiced family attorneys do not know how to handle this sort of situation WELL, so making random calls is not necessarily the best or most efficient way to go. A women's shelter will have someone on hand or on staff that does ONLY this stuff, so that's my recommendation. A law school that has a clinical program may be able to take it on for free, depending on the OP's income, but they are also a REALLY good source of pro-bono organizations in the area and will be able to point her in the right direction. If you call the state bar (or city bar association) they may have a similar referral program.

[meemee]

mama i have no advice but when i saw post #29 my insides SCREAMED to delete some portions of it. just to be sure to avoid ANY chance of hassle.

is it me or was there a thread just like this one a while ago - maybe a year or 6 months ago! eerily v. similar to yours OP.

[kblackstone444]

[QUOTE=meemee;15869812is it me or was there a thread just like this one a while ago - maybe a year or 6 months ago! eerily v. similar to yours OP.[/QUOTE]

Remind me to go look for that post later. For now, so sick, severe cold, beginning of he flu, something. Need to go back to bed for today. Ugh. Too many other things I SHOULD be doing than laying around in bed all day.

[A_Random_Phrase]

Originally Posted by Latte Mama

Mama, it might be a good idea to edit/delete some of that info in post 29. I'm in NY and I can probably guess which hospital you are going to deliver at. It's been known to happen that some exes look up internet info.

Shouldn't the quote in post #30 also be altered?