Need serious help.

[crunchy_mommy]

I don't know what's going on with 19mo DS, his sleep has been ALLLLL over the place this past week & he is so miserable & overtired all day long.

Last weekend we started having DH put him to bed. We were at the point where he was nursing for hours & hours before he'd go to sleep & not only was it driving me insane & wearing me out, but he was also unhappy the whole time. So we decided to try not nursing to sleep & he did great with that, whined for me for a minute or two then went to sleep without a peep (normally there is lots of crying involved when I nurse him to sleep for some reason). OK so he did well with that I think 4 or 5 nights & 3 nights (every other night or so) he freaked out & I ended up nursing him to sleep anyway.

Also he was kind of 'off' all week. No fever or anything but slight runny nose with an occasional cough, and generally just not quite 'normal' - could be teething or something.

So his sleep patterns are crazy. Twice he slept 8 hours straight (for the first time in his LIFE). Several nights he slept pretty normally, which for him means one 3-5 hour stretch & hourly or more wakings the rest of the night. Several nights he slept horrendously, couldn't even stay asleep for 5 or 10 minutes. He wakes up crying for me even though I'm right there sleeping beside him, and isn't consoled 'til I nurse. He asks for "more milk" in his sleep, or just talks about random things -- early this morning it was "no tomato, mac & cheese!" and waving to a puppy. His speech has kind of jumped a lot this last week or two (speaking more clearly, better sentences, hundreds more words). He has fallen off the bed (which is a mattress on the floor thankfully) 3 times this past week, usually doesn't fall off! Sometimes he seems like he could maybe be in pain (I'd guess teething or refluxy) but more often he just seems... incredibly restless, can't settle enough to sleep.

No correlation to how he fell asleep (nursing vs. not nursing). No changes in his diet, my diet I had to add in some more vitamin supplements (zinc, B12 which I had taken before anyway, new brand of other vitamins but the same basic ingredients) but otherwise the same. I had a huge increase in supply last week (weird b/c I was nursing LESS) and I have oversupply issues so he ended up refluxy, crying, spitting, etc. for a couple of days but my supply is back under control & he's still a mess. I don't know what to do. He has devolved into a crying cranky clingy heap and it's as bad or worse as when he was a newborn. He won't sleep well & I don't know how to 'make' him. I am losing patience & tolerance and he is miserable.

[Violet2]

I remember this time as being kind of crappy on the sleep front. There's an 18 mo sleep regression, is he hitting his late maybe?

This whole period until about 2 was unsettled for DD. I was up a lot with her at night.

Hope this passes soon and you get better ideas than I have on how to cope.



V

[crunchy_mommy]

TWO?! !TWO!!! I can't deal with this for another 4-5 months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought he already hit his 18 mo sleep regression.

Ughhhh.

Thanks for the hug, this is miserable for both of us

[D_McG]

Teeth? That or my kids got to a point where nursing at night was just making things worse. Like it was stopping them from sleeping well.

[ktmama]

It might help to kind of "force" a routine on him. You don't mention if you do this, so here goes....

My ds has always been a crappy sleeper, but what's really helped is to wake him up at the EXACT same time every day. Now, I know that the conventional wisdom is to NEVER wake a sleeping baby and that after an especially hard night, the LAST thing most of us want to do is get up, but....

Starting his day at 7:00 EVERY DAY (even weekends) has been The Key. It has led to very predictable naps (at 10:30) and then predictable nights (asleep by 7:30). I've never been rigid with my kids and have always followed their lead, but I've just found that he really needs me to guide him more. I really avoid a rigid routine for myself (although the weeks seem to have a rhythm even if the days don't) but it seems to work so much better for him. We are even down to just one night waking. Even getting his molars isn't changing his sleep pattern now! It's taken about a month of doing this to have these results.

What do you think?

[LadyCatherine185]

big big mama. I know you have been having all sorts of rough times lately.

I can't remember if you have looked into food allergies/intolerances for your DS? Does he have any rashes that come and go? Persistent congestion? Diaper rash? Is he often gassy? How are his poops?

What kind of solids is he eating throughout the day? I think I remember you are vegan? Are you getting enough protein? is he? Do you take probiotics?

For us things didn't get better on the sleep front (Liam was waking every 1-2 hours to nurse) until we nightweaned at 19 months.. Had I let him continue to nurse all night, I don't know when it would've gotten better.. Your DS could be getting his 2 year molars in, I think Liam's started coming in around 19/20 months. And they are finally all in now, and he STTN almost every night (even nightweaned he was waking 1-2 times a night, and DH would go in and resettle him).

I also agree with the PP about having a good routine. That has really saved us in terms of sleep-fighting and predictability with Liam's sleep.

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by D_McG

That or my kids got to a point where nursing at night was just making things worse. Like it was stopping them from sleeping well.

I kind of wonder about this... Especially after seeing him (sometimes) go to bed so easily without nursing (vs. the screaming & crying & hours of nursing we encountered before)...

Originally Posted by ktmama

It might help to kind of "force" a routine on him. You don't mention if you do this, so here goes....

We do try to keep to somewhat of a sleep/wake routine. I don't usually let him sleep in more than 1/2 an hour or so. I try to get him to nap at the same time every day. The problems are that 1) every so often he'll wake up 1/2 an hour-an hour early and won't go back to sleep, even though he's tired, and we get thrown off, & 2) the weekends, when DH is primarily 'in charge' = DS gets thrown of A LOT. His wake time is almost always earlier, and his naps are almost always later. He really resists 'routine' too but I'm still half-heartedly working on it.

Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185

I can't remember if you have looked into food allergies/intolerances for your DS? Does he have any rashes that come and go? Persistent congestion? Diaper rash? Is he often gassy? How are his poops?

What kind of solids is he eating throughout the day? I think I remember you are vegan? Are you getting enough protein? is he? Do you take probiotics?

I never really suspected food intolerances for him but I put him on the same elimination diet as me for a month or two (no soy, corn, or gluten, plus yes we are vegan). I didn't notice any obvious effects, nor did he have more issues when I reintroduced corn or wheat (haven't bothered with soy). But I am wondering if he's reacting to ME ingesting some of those things... i.e. I had him eat corn & he was the same as always, same with wheat, but last week when *I* did a wheat trial I ended up with massive oversupply at the same time so I wonder if the wheat somehow caused it???? (I'm off wheat again & afraid to do another trial). And I wonder if me eating corn affects him even though him eating corn doesn't. I don't know, I'm admittedly very confused on it though I don't really feel in my gut that intolerances are his main issue.

He does get very mild dry-skin rashes occasionally. Barely visible & don't seem to bother him. He doesn't get true diaper rashes but sometimes has what I guess would be the beginnings of one (though it always clears up in a few hours). He's not always congested but it does seem like he's been stuffy for the last 2 weeks for no apparent reason but maybe linked to teething. He won't let me get a good look at his teeth so I can't really tell if he's cutting more but I suspect he is. He isn't super gassy or anything... his poops are erratic (sometimes harder, sometimes soft like BM poo, sometimes once a day, other times skips a few days or goes 2-3 times in a day) but never green or mucousy or anything.

His eating is a bit... weird. When it's just him & me during the week, he won't touch anything all day long. At most I might get 3-5 bites of food in him all day long. BUT on the weekends when DH is home or if we visit friends with kids, he'll eat more substantial amounts. He eats dinner every night at least, not a ton, but will also have an evening snack or two if he isn't crying hysterically. He probably eats 1/2 - 3/4 cups of food daily total during the week & 3/4 - 1.5 cups during the weekend. I wish I could get him to eat more (& nurse less!) during the day. Other than that, he'll eat great variety and I don't think there is any food he doesn't like, and he gets a good mix of fats/proteins/carbs but I really feel he needs more solid food.


He slept a little better last night, didn't seem as restless.

[LadyCatherine185]

It doesn't sound like a food intolerance to me at all either... Maybe the stuffy nose was a little cold he had going on, or could be teething too.

He is probably still nursing at night so much because he is legitimately hungry, given the amount of food he is eating. Liam started eating a LOT more during the day once we nightweaned. A lot of his meltdowns, etc could be caused by overtiredness, since he isn't getting good, solid sleep. Have you read Sleepless in America?

Here are a few things I would work on::

1) keeping your routine consistent, even on the weekends.
2) having Daddy put him to sleep at night, everynight.
3) try getting him to eat more solids. Offer solids BEFORE he asks to nurse, keep snacks out, within reach and sight of him. Offer frequently.
4) high protein/fat bedtime snack
5) possibly work on some gentle/slow nightweaning. Do you cosleep? Try having DH put him to bed in a separate bed, and from X-Y time, have DH go to him when he wakes, and gradually increase the time. For us, Liam goes back to sleep much quicker/easier for Daddy.. And if he was with Mommy, it was harder to understand why he couldn't have milk

Your DS is definitely an intense little guy, but I have found that with Liam the better rested and well-fed he is, the happier he is. It may not be that simple for you guys, but worth a shot, IMO.

[D_McG]

I had a similar experience to the PP. Except for the solids thing I had to flat out stop nursing so much. 'offering' before nursing didn't help. But cutting nursing down to 3x day (and none overnight) restored order/sanity and brought my kids to where they needed to be for their happiness. I did this grandually obviously, but deliberately.

My experience really turned me against the whole 'child led' thing actually. For us, anyway it didn't work. They needed a lot of direction for me to get where they needed to be when it came to sleep and nursing. I handled things much different with my second as a result of my experience with my first. YMMV.

[Violet2]

Yes, I would consider night weaning if you are open to that. It will improve sleep. Depending on personality, I think most kids are fine with it in a few days. My DD figured it out in about 2 nights and suddenly sttn. It was amazing. (But her sleep still went through some upheaval at the age your LO is, but she wasn't nursing anymore by then--her choice not mine and I'm still bummed about it.)

You could do a dream feed before you go to sleep to top him off.

Also, for nightweaning, your LO needs a lovey, something to turn to besides the breast kwim? That will help a lot.

V

[LadyCatherine185]

Originally Posted by D_McG

I had a similar experience to the PP. Except for the solids thing I had to flat out stop nursing so much. 'offering' before nursing didn't help. But cutting nursing down to 3x day (and none overnight) restored order/sanity and brought my kids to where they needed to be for their happiness. I did this grandually obviously, but deliberately.

My experience really turned me against the whole 'child led' thing actually. For us, anyway it didn't work. They needed a lot of direction for me to get where they needed to be when it came to sleep and nursing. I handled things much different with my second as a result of my experience with my first. YMMV.

I also cut back on day nursing as well. I was pregnant/exhausted and nursing was painful. He was still nursing at least every 2-3 hours during the day (depending on how busy we were) at 18/19 months and I cut him back to about 3-4 times a day (gradually but deliberately). The first week or so of actually saying "no nursing right now, you can after xyz" was rough, but after that he got used to not being able to nurse whenever he wanted and actually stopped asking other than wakeup, before nap, after nap, and before bed. Then I started shortening the nursing sessions, and over the last 6 months he started nursing even less and less and is now weaned as of about 2 weeks ago. Not saying that you need to fully wean, OP, but setting some nursing limits may actually benefit you and your LO.