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Quad (commited union of four: 2M & 2F). WDYT? - Page 2

post #21 of 129
I've been in an open marriage for 8 years, and active in my local polyamorous community for longer. Gently, I think you are on the wrong track here. If you're thinking about this, but don't have two actual, interesting and interested people in mind, than it's pretty much just pie-in-the-sky fantasizing. There's nothing wrong with that, but know it for what it is. You cannot get your partner meaningfully on board right now because there is no board.

You need intensity and physical stimulation, but I'm not sold on the notion that committing yourself and your husband to two additional people is going to provide that for you, without also introducing new needs and problems into the relationship(s) that you have. Your new partners will have needs, they will desire things of you and your husband, you will have to give them a lot, and no one has infinite time or emotional and sexual energy.

If you find that you need intensity, etc., and your husband is open to the idea, I think your best bet is to find some people that you, and you alone, can casually date. That should give you a chance for the physical stimulation you want, when and as you want it, with minimal demands placed on you, your spouse, and the people you're dating.
post #22 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EviesMom View Post
Here's the current poly families thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...highlight=poly

If you search on "poly" in Advanced Search and check off "Queer Parenting" as the subforum, you should find the threads you're looking for.

I know cohousing means something different, but I do know triads that live together and triads that although they have had a marriage ceremony, live apart. Differentiating the two for me is the housing situation. (I only know a quad that lives apart). Sharing physical space with more people adds complexity on top of that added by the long term commitment. Can you start with arranging ways outside of your marriage to meet some of your other needs, like an exercise partner? It just sounds like from couple unsure about poly to quad is an awfully big leap to start. Try a non-romantic exercise partner, maybe then a romantic situation, let it grow a little slower.
Thanks for the link!
Unfortunately, I can't really start anything with anyone neither myself nor with dh since dh isn't ready for a quad. And no, we aren't interested in swinging or open marriage (at least dh isn't interested AT ALL; open marriage would work well for me though, but oh well...). So we really are interested in expanding our family, rather than just having some ocasional fun with other people. And yes, living together is part of it, part of this commitment. The idea works for both of us, it's just dh says he is not ready at this moment ...
post #23 of 129
If you aren't allowed to casually date then how to you think you would ever find people to form a long-term commitment with? I've been around/involved with poly to one degree or another (I go through monogamous periods) for 11 years. I've never ever seen an insta-relationship turn out well. In an insta-relationship (going from not dating to 'married') you are not really having interactions with a person you are having interactions with your fantasies about that person. No good can come of that.

Quite frankly if you can't date you can't add anyone to your life in a realistic way. I think this just isn't going to happen for you, sorry.
post #24 of 129
my friend has a bf and a dh, they are looking for a 4th and have been together 7 years. a quad is my ideal situation.
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post #25 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeepyCat View Post
If you find that you need intensity, etc., and your husband is open to the idea, I think your best bet is to find some people that you, and you alone, can casually date. That should give you a chance for the physical stimulation you want, when and as you want it, with minimal demands placed on you, your spouse, and the people you're dating.
That was EXACTLY what I first proposed to DH. Unfortunately, he straight forward completely and totally against of it . That would be, of course, an ideal situation, but oh well...
post #26 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rightkindofme View Post
If you aren't allowed to casually date then how to you think you would ever find people to form a long-term commitment with? I've been around/involved with poly to one degree or another (I go through monogamous periods) for 11 years. I've never ever seen an insta-relationship turn out well. In an insta-relationship (going from not dating to 'married') you are not really having interactions with a person you are having interactions with your fantasies about that person. No good can come of that.

Quite frankly if you can't date you can't add anyone to your life in a realistic way. I think this just isn't going to happen for you, sorry.
I know, this is a tricky part, isn't it . Perhaps once DH is ready to move on a quad, he will be ok with us wondering outside the marriage looking for the right people.
post #27 of 129
I think that you should more directly address the issues you have with your husband as your partner, and your marriage in general. You say he is very intellectually stimulating, but does not stimulate you in other ways. Are those deal breakers? Can you find a way to dial down the intensity of one of your physical activities and enjoy it with him? Can you find some good friends (non-sexual) who would share those activities with you?

I don't think any partner is going to give you 100% of what you need, but I also don't think they are supposed to.
post #28 of 129
Quote:
I think that you should more directly address the issues you have with your husband as your partner, and your marriage in general. You say he is very intellectually stimulating, but does not stimulate you in other ways. Are those deal breakers? Can you find a way to dial down the intensity of one of your physical activities and enjoy it with him? Can you find some good friends (non-sexual) who would share those activities with you?

I don't think any partner is going to give you 100% of what you need, but I also don't think they are supposed to.
This. Full disclosure, poly is not something that would ever happen in my marriage. It would be completely unacceptable due to faith and personal reasons. So I am looking at this from the perspective of the spouse who would be saying "No".

Some of these issues are not sexual, do you need to add sexual/lifetime partners into the mix in order to get them met?? I thought it was interesting that someone who is living a poly lifestyle pointed out what I immediately thought--in adding two more people, you will be adding complexity to the relationship, and they will have needs too. From your post it looks like you are wanting this for yourself. The fact is, when you have any sort of committment or partnership, you have to be a giver as well. Are you prepared to add two more relationships to which you will need to give as much as you take, in order to keep them healthy? Are you currently practicing this sort of giving and need-meeting with your husband, as well as looking to have your needs met?
post #29 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom View Post
This. Full disclosure, poly is not something that would ever happen in my marriage. It would be completely unacceptable due to faith and personal reasons. So I am looking at this from the perspective of the spouse who would be saying "No".

Some of these issues are not sexual, do you need to add sexual/lifetime partners into the mix in order to get them met?? I thought it was interesting that someone who is living a poly lifestyle pointed out what I immediately thought--in adding two more people, you will be adding complexity to the relationship, and they will have needs too. From your post it looks like you are wanting this for yourself. The fact is, when you have any sort of committment or partnership, you have to be a giver as well. Are you prepared to add two more relationships to which you will need to give as much as you take, in order to keep them healthy? Are you currently practicing this sort of giving and need-meeting with your husband, as well as looking to have your needs met?
Yes, I am prepared to give. I fully understand that the additional two people will have their needs as well and that the universe does not rotate just around my needs.

To answer some other questions. Yes, I do want that physical stimulation and intensity go along with sexual intensity. Having just an activity partner would be nice, but to me this is sort of like being a vegitarian: it will keep you alive but it will never satisfy your true passion and needs.

Not having it is not a deal breaker at this point, but I do not feel fully alive and happy without it. For now I can just suck it up and deal with that. Would it be a deal breaker in the future? Most likely!
post #30 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharlla View Post
my friend has a bf and a dh, they are looking for a 4th and have been together 7 years. a quad is my ideal situation.
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Thanks! If you don't mind sharing, do they live together? are they planning to live togther after they find thr forth person? Do they have kids together? Can CPS interfere on the grounds of "a quad being a bad influence to the kids" or something simular to that?

Lots of questions, sorry...
post #31 of 129
Quote:
Thanks! If you don't mind sharing, do they live together? are they planning to live togther after they find thr forth person? Do they have kids together? Can CPS interfere on the grounds of "a quad being a bad influence to the kids" or something simular to that?
Rumor has that CPS has done exactly that in a few cases. (Although I also know of one case where a polyamorous triad lost their kids... for living in a house with neither food nor heat. It's not always clearly-cut "we took your kids because you're poly.")

If you are investigated by CPS, the caseworkers will come in with whatever preconceived notions they happen to have (hopefully few) and exercise their judgment (which is hopefully good). But there are no guarantees that a caseworker won't flip out because of the family situation, or exercise terrible judgment. This is true for pretty all imaginable family situations. You could be the blandest and most virtuous family imaginable, and get a caseworker who goes nuts because you're behind putting away the laundry.

It is my belief that most people who work from CPS are trying to do good in the world, and that they will be reasonable and careful. But I don't believe that 100% of CPS workers are angels, or that even the average CPS worker will never make mistakes. Nor do I necessarily believe that your neighbors will refrain from calling them in - it really depends on your neighbors.
post #32 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
That was EXACTLY what I first proposed to DH. Unfortunately, he straight forward completely and totally against of it . That would be, of course, an ideal situation, but oh well...
If that's the ideal, really, don't go for two more committed partners.

Also, I am contractually obligated to tell you that "relationship broken - add more people!" is a common joke (and common comment on actual relationships) in the poly community.
post #33 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
Thanks! If you don't mind sharing, do they live together? are they planning to live togther after they find thr forth person? Do they have kids together? Can CPS interfere on the grounds of "a quad being a bad influence to the kids" or something simular to that?

Lots of questions, sorry...
yes they do live together and they had a 4th for a year but didnt work out. ive never heard of them having cps problems.the wife has a child in school from a previou marriage and the father is out of the picture.
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post #34 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeepyCat View Post
Also, I am contractually obligated to tell you that "relationship broken - add more people!" is a common joke (and common comment on actual relationships) in the poly community.


More people bring a lot of wonderful things to a relationship but also bring more feelings, different dynamics, and new challenges. It seems, to me, that adding more people should be considered insofar as it can add to your relationship/dynamic, not with regard to fixing or plugging holes in your current situation.
post #35 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeepyCat View Post
Rumor has that CPS has done exactly that in a few cases. (Although I also know of one case where a polyamorous triad lost their kids... for living in a house with neither food nor heat. It's not always clearly-cut "we took your kids because you're poly.")

If you are investigated by CPS, the caseworkers will come in with whatever preconceived notions they happen to have (hopefully few) and exercise their judgment (which is hopefully good). But there are no guarantees that a caseworker won't flip out because of the family situation, or exercise terrible judgment. This is true for pretty all imaginable family situations. You could be the blandest and most virtuous family imaginable, and get a caseworker who goes nuts because you're behind putting away the laundry.

It is my belief that most people who work from CPS are trying to do good in the world, and that they will be reasonable and careful. But I don't believe that 100% of CPS workers are angels, or that even the average CPS worker will never make mistakes. Nor do I necessarily believe that your neighbors will refrain from calling them in - it really depends on your neighbors.
OMG, well of course not having food and heat in the house IS a good reason to take the kids away!! I am of course talking about being financially stable and not neglectful family. We've never had to deal with CPS. But I wonder if some "concerned" concervative people file a complaint about exposing the kids to polygamy (or something along these lines). Do you think just this complaint by itself would be a reason for CPS to interfere?
post #36 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeepyCat View Post
If that's the ideal, really, don't go for two more committed partners.

Also, I am contractually obligated to tell you that "relationship broken - add more people!" is a common joke (and common comment on actual relationships) in the poly community.
Well, sorry, I don't think I explained it good. This was my initial proposal for dh as a possible solution for my needs being met (because this is the only way I could think of at that time and it looked very simple to impliment and fairly uncomplicated). He said that he would never go for it, but that he has a possible solution in mind. So he told me the idea of a quad (turned out he is writing about it in his fiction book and has always thought it is a wonderful idea). After that, the more I thought about it, the more I loved the idea of a quad. I really think this is very special: a union of four commited loving each other people sounds like much more natural than a union of two. It's like your own mini-community, your family. Our families are abroad (mine is in Russia and dh's is in Israel), so having a larger family feels so wonderful to both of us. Furthermore, while it is true, that seeing other people would be much easier solution, the sex would lack that wonderful connection it needs to be special. So, yes, I am for a quad rather than just dating outside the marriage (even though I would not mind that either).
post #37 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
OMG, well of course not having food and heat in the house IS a good reason to take the kids away!! I am of course talking about being financially stable and not neglectful family. We've never had to deal with CPS. But I wonder if some "concerned" concervative people file a complaint about exposing the kids to polygamy (or something along these lines). Do you think just this complaint by itself would be a reason for CPS to interfere?
they cant prove anything, if you want discression can be used in public. a
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post #38 of 129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharlla View Post
they cant prove anything, if you want discression can be used in public. a
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What if we aren't planning to hide the status of our marriage/union from the kids and those two people will be just like parents for them as well. So if CPS asks the kids it will all come out inthe open. I mean how hard would it be to prove it when every morning the kids run into our bedroom and while right now they find us in the bed with a quad it will be four people in bed which of course they will tell about if being asked by CPS. I really don't want to hide it from the kids, don't want to give them an impression that there is something shameful and dirty with having a loving relationship of four adults instead of two. Or what if I get pg from the other husband (then it will be even easier to prove it).
Gosh, I SO wish we lived in a society where we don't have to worry about such nonesense . I mean, even a slightest posibility of loosing kids over it IS SCARY ...
post #39 of 129
From what you've said, your husband is not on board with this, and will, at best, just be going along in an attempt to fix something broken in your relationship. It seems quite possible to me that you will ruin your marriage. He could easily get sick of this and just leave. I don't think CPS should be your big worry, but rather how this would play out in family court if he wants custody of the kids.

Stable parent who wants to make a family vs. parent who wants to have sex with multiple people. I think you could lose your husband and your kids. I think that's the risk you are taking.
post #40 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
From what you've said, your husband is not on board with this, and will, at best, just be going along in an attempt to fix something broken in your relationship. It seems quite possible to me that you will ruin your marriage. He could easily get sick of this and just leave. I don't think CPS should be your big worry, but rather how this would play out in family court if he wants custody of the kids.

Stable parent who wants to make a family vs. parent who wants to have sex with multiple people. I think you could lose your husband and your kids. I think that's the risk you are taking.
DH was the one who actually came up with the idea of a quad (I wrote about it in more details two or three posts earlier). He just wants to make sure that our marriage is completely wonderful BEFORE we go for a quad (we were separated for 2.5 months this string-summer). But then again, as great as our relationship is now, our marriage will never be wonderful without this need of mine being met (and he will never be able to meet it).
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