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Quad (commited union of four: 2M & 2F). WDYT? - Page 3

post #41 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
From what you've said, your husband is not on board with this, and will, at best, just be going along in an attempt to fix something broken in your relationship. It seems quite possible to me that you will ruin your marriage. He could easily get sick of this and just leave. I don't think CPS should be your big worry, but rather how this would play out in family court if he wants custody of the kids.

Stable parent who wants to make a family vs. parent who wants to have sex with multiple people. I think you could lose your husband and your kids. I think that's the risk you are taking.
Oh and I completely do not worry about dh trying to take the kids away from me. Neither me nor him would EVER try to do that to the kids and to each other. We both know that if we ever separate, the kids will be spanding equal amount of time with both of us.
post #42 of 129
One is hard enough. Three other people besides me? No thank you. But then, my orientation is very much monogamous so there's not that temptation for me, either.
post #43 of 129
without having taken the time to read the responses thoroughly, I'd agree with what most of the people I recognise from the poly thread have said.

reasons against quads given such as anecdotally having seen them explode spectacularly doesn't really rate much with me. I've seen just as many heteronormative r'ships explode just as spectacularly - and usually for the same reasons as poly r'ships break up: lack of open communication and clearly-set boundaries without assumptions.

I also agree that you can't realistically expect to jump into an "instant married relationship", with anyone for that matter, whether it be a poly or otherwise. You wouldn't as a single person decide to get a husband, find a suitable guy who's into the idea and move in straight away. there's a period of dating, and getting to know each other. trial moving in, etc.

and everyone needs to be on board with it fully.
post #44 of 129
Well to me, I would never consider this idea, just because of my faith. But in your case, it sounds like a band aid to fix your unhappiness.
Your sex is boring, so you want to basically not wrapping it up nicely, sleep with someone other than the spouse you commited to. Your spouse doesnt like the sports you like, so you want another man?(im assuming male) to participate with these things with you. This is what I am hearing. Your spouse gets on your nerves sometimes(dont they all?) and you would like someone there to vent to or hang out with instead of him.

How about 1. divorce your dh...find your happiness. You deserve to be happy, but so does your dh. He does not sound happy in this idea at all, and I do not blame him.
2. cheat on your spouse, get the sex you need.(not a very good idea, but a choice nevertheless)
3. find some friends who you can hang out with. ones that like sporting events. ones that like girls nights out. ones that you can call for a coffee when dh is annoying.

Thats about your choices, while your dh is not on board with your needs. I would feel let down if the person that married me, and commited to me for life, decided one day I wasnt enough and wanted to move more people in. It would really hurt me.
Maybe you and your husband need counselling? of if you have gone and its not working out for you, maybe you just need to get a divorce so you can find what it is that makes you happy.

What if you move two more in and then you get tired of them. What if the sex with other man becomes *vanilla* and the other woman starts getting on your nerves??Are you going to move two more in to replace them??

Basically what I am saying is.....if you arent happy now, you arent going to be happy then.
I dont intend to sound snarky if I do, I am sorry. I am just putting it out there for you. I keep it real.
post #45 of 129
our marriage will never be wonderful without this need of mine being met (and he will never be able to meet it).

How do you know your marriage will be wonderful if your needs are met by someone else, but then perhaps your husband is hurt/jealous because he wasn't "enough" for you? Then the marriage might be wonderful for you, but not for him. I know nothing about quads or whatever so I am certainly not qualified to advise, but I can't help but see that as a PP said, it could be hurtful. I know if someone said to me, "Hey, you're swell, but there's a lot missing with you, you don't turn me on and I don't have enough fun with you and you can't keep up with me and you're not all that feminine (all equivalents of what you're sayingn about your husband) so let's get some babe in here who can fill my other needs..." I don't know about that. So yeah, unless he's totally on board, it's not going to work. And I can't say I blame if this isn't something he really wants to do.

Also, it might sound great that hey, if you're not getting along with one of your partners, you can just cozy up to whichever other one's on board with you... but it might not be that simple. What if you all aren't getting along - God knows it's hard enough with two people, even loving people, so fit all the pieces of their lives together harmoniously. Four sounds like a darn nightmare. But my very biggest concern would be the children. How do you know these new partners would treat your kids parentally? What if they do, and then bow out? Or one gets out, one stays, and then a new one comes in... yikes. Yes, that could be very damaging to your children. Confusing and unstable. It's all well and good that you're exploring options to satisfy your needs, but it seems there are less confusing ways to go about it, ways that are less impactful to your children.

It's true that when push comes to shove, your husband could get tired of that dynamic (since he sounds hesitant about this to begin with) and in the court's eyes, honestly, that would not be considered a tenable situation for kids.
post #46 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
Oh and I completely do not worry about dh trying to take the kids away from me. Neither me nor him would EVER try to do that to the kids and to each other. We both know that if we ever separate, the kids will be spanding equal amount of time with both of us.
No. You know no such thing.

You know that, at this moment, you think that if you split up, you would behave like rational, mature people and do the right thing by your children. It doesn't sound like you're husband is into this idea, and he may not be as generous in the course of splitting with you as you currently believe he would be.

People often act differently than they thought they would when they're in pain, and divorce is painful. Divorce also throws everything up in the air - kids, money, houses, lives. Everything you care about can be taken away, and everything can be used as a bargaining chip to get something else.

If you pursue the course you're talking about, you are taking a serious risk on destroying your marriage and losing your children.
post #47 of 129
I didn't read all the responses, but I have experience in a quad relationship. It ended up being more difficult than it had to be, IMHO. Everyone wasn't on the same page all the time, there was a significant age difference, and it ended on bad terms after a good solid 6 months of trying. This isn't to say that a quad isn't possible, just very difficult to get 4 people on the same page all at the same time and in agreement with... um, everything! lol Between the 4 of us there were 6 kids and one on the way, and they had a VERY different parenting style than DP and I. It was over complicated, boundries were constantly and consistantly being crossed, and in the end decided we would never go that route again. We are polyamorous, but a quad isn't a direction we would ever go in again. Thats just my experience.
post #48 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by majikfaerie View Post
without having taken the time to read the responses thoroughly, I'd agree with what most of the people I recognise from the poly thread have said.

reasons against quads given such as anecdotally having seen them explode spectacularly doesn't really rate much with me. I've seen just as many heteronormative r'ships explode just as spectacularly - and usually for the same reasons as poly r'ships break up: lack of open communication and clearly-set boundaries without assumptions.

I also agree that you can't realistically expect to jump into an "instant married relationship", with anyone for that matter, whether it be a poly or otherwise. You wouldn't as a single person decide to get a husband, find a suitable guy who's into the idea and move in straight away. there's a period of dating, and getting to know each other. trial moving in, etc.

and everyone needs to be on board with it fully.
No of course I never meant to jump into a commited union without dating/living together for a long time. I just assumed this is too obvious to even mention. And yes, when we decide to move on a quad we are yet to figure out how exactly we will be doing the dating (always together, as a couple or both together and separately).
post #49 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthMommy80 View Post
I didn't read all the responses, but I have experience in a quad relationship. It ended up being more difficult than it had to be, IMHO. Everyone wasn't on the same page all the time, there was a significant age difference, and it ended on bad terms after a good solid 6 months of trying. This isn't to say that a quad isn't possible, just very difficult to get 4 people on the same page all at the same time and in agreement with... um, everything! lol Between the 4 of us there were 6 kids and one on the way, and they had a VERY different parenting style than DP and I. It was over complicated, boundries were constantly and consistantly being crossed, and in the end decided we would never go that route again. We are polyamorous, but a quad isn't a direction we would ever go in again. Thats just my experience.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
post #50 of 129
Quote:
So he told me the idea of a quad (turned out he is writing about it in his fiction book and has always thought it is a wonderful idea).
So your dh is the one who came up with the idea. But apparently he didn't mean it quite like that! I mean, I've dabbled in writing fan fiction and my characters have all kinds of sexual adventures that I don't have. It's very satisfying.

I'm not offering advice or solutions here. Just offering a perspective. Your dh might be thinking, holy cow, what is this pandora's box I opened? What did I just step in?

I wish you the very best in your efforts to navigate this.
post #51 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post
So your dh is the one who came up with the idea. But apparently he didn't mean it quite like that! I mean, I've dabbled in writing fan fiction and my characters have all kinds of sexual adventures that I don't have. It's very satisfying.

I'm not offering advice or solutions here. Just offering a perspective. Your dh might be thinking, holy cow, what is this pandora's box I opened? What did I just step in?

I wish you the very best in your efforts to navigate this.
Thanks! it is a very interesting perspective! This probably explains why we spent so many hours (per his initiative) talking about an idea of a quad and he was saying that now when he thinks about it more and more, he has no idea why would anybody even want to have a marriage of just two and so on and so forth. But when it came to action he all of the sudden backed up and said that he is not ready
post #52 of 129
I don't want to be presumptuous here but seeing as a quad would take A LOT of energy and time have you tried putting that much time and energy into your DH first to see if you could actually be content with him?
post #53 of 129
Quote:
And yes, he does know about my need for the intensity and the physical stimulation.
I though think if I can get that from the other partner (or both other partners) it can make things beautiful.
Could you take care of the physical activities with friends while you work on your current relationship? A team-in-training thing for charity? Personal trainer? Find friends you can go rock climbing with?
post #54 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phathui5 View Post
Could you take care of the physical activities with friends while you work on your current relationship? A team-in-training thing for charity? Personal trainer? Find friends you can go rock climbing with?
it's easier said than done. plus as i said earlier i do want to this this intensity in my sex life as well.
post #55 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
it's easier said than done. plus as i said earlier i do want to this this intensity in my sex life as well.
it may cost you your marriage.

Very few people want to watch their spouse have sex with others, and being told over and over that you just don't do it for them, that the only way they will be happy is to have sex with other people, would be a deal breaker for most people.

I can't help but wonder if you are deeply, deeply angry or hurt by your husband, and, at some level, really just want to punish him. Because for most men, being told the things you say so easily would be soul destroying.
post #56 of 129
OK- I'm hesitant on posting anything here because marriages are SO intimate, so take this for what it is worth- it may or may not apply, but here goes.

ALL marriages have an ebb and flow. There are times of intensity (sexually and otherwise) and periods where the focus is elsewhere. A life-long relationship is not always intense accross all areas. I think as an (American) culture, we have this idea that the same passion we begin our marriages with will be the same forever and when that is "lost", we think that something is horribly wrong. But what happens in the most stable, loving relationship is that it changes into something quieter, stronger, and passionate in ways that it could never have been in the begining. There is no guarentee another person you would commit to would provide the "intensity" you are looking for over years and years either. Sometimes recapturing the passion that is exciting is about allowing yourself to live the changes and discover what is new about them. For example, the "college kid feverish passion" is not in our life anymore. However, unlike when we were college kids, I trust my husband 100% and have no qualms about my body at all and that has given us a different kind of freedom that is no less intense, but very different. No one stays the same their whole life. The "trick" is not in maintaining this continual, constant alignment in all areas of life. It is about keeping steady and working though it with love, commitment, respect, and a sense of humor.

Gently, your drive and conversation is about your perception of your husband's inadequacies relating to your needs. But, in a pair or a quad, committed relationships are about accepting the whole person and when in times of lull, turning that relationship until you find the glimmer than you can build from. And, often what we think and say, our feelings will follow. If all of your conversation and thought is placing your husband in a position where he will "never be enough", that is exactly where he will stay- if it is "true" or not and no matter what he does.

I don't know if/how much of all this applies.
post #57 of 129
I do think you might get more helpful responses if you ask in the poly thread or at least the queer parenting section.

most of all: if this is something you're seriously considering, then you need to be talking about it with your DH - talk to him about how you're feeling, what your needs are, how he's feeling, what his needs are, what both of your fears are, etc.
if you can't talk to him openly and honestly about this, then you are very unlikely to have a successful long-term relationship, especially not a polyamorous one - they require a whole lotta open, honest communication to work.
post #58 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
I can't help but wonder if you are deeply, deeply angry or hurt by your husband, and, at some level, really just want to punish him.
No, i deeply honestly want this marriage to work, for our kids sake mostly (they took it VERY hard when we separated this summer for 2.5 months and now they have to be in therapy . So realizing just how important to make this marriage work, I put everything out on the table. If there are secrets in the marriage it will fail. If i find myself constantly thinking of a guy who can give me intensity I need, this does not help this marriage to work at all. and since it is so important to me, the only way i see this marriage working is if i get this from another man but within the marriage (whether it is a quad or an open marriage).
post #59 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexsam View Post
OK- I'm hesitant on posting anything here because marriages are SO intimate, so take this for what it is worth- it may or may not apply, but here goes.

ALL marriages have an ebb and flow. There are times of intensity (sexually and otherwise) and periods where the focus is elsewhere. A life-long relationship is not always intense accross all areas. I think as an (American) culture, we have this idea that the same passion we begin our marriages with will be the same forever and when that is "lost", we think that something is horribly wrong. But what happens in the most stable, loving relationship is that it changes into something quieter, stronger, and passionate in ways that it could never have been in the begining. There is no guarentee another person you would commit to would provide the "intensity" you are looking for over years and years either. Sometimes recapturing the passion that is exciting is about allowing yourself to live the changes and discover what is new about them. For example, the "college kid feverish passion" is not in our life anymore. However, unlike when we were college kids, I trust my husband 100% and have no qualms about my body at all and that has given us a different kind of freedom that is no less intense, but very different. No one stays the same their whole life. The "trick" is not in maintaining this continual, constant alignment in all areas of life. It is about keeping steady and working though it with love, commitment, respect, and a sense of humor.

Gently, your drive and conversation is about your perception of your husband's inadequacies relating to your needs. But, in a pair or a quad, committed relationships are about accepting the whole person and when in times of lull, turning that relationship until you find the glimmer than you can build from. And, often what we think and say, our feelings will follow. If all of your conversation and thought is placing your husband in a position where he will "never be enough", that is exactly where he will stay- if it is "true" or not and no matter what he does.

I don't know if/how much of all this applies.
without going much into details I want to clarify that i want a very specific kind of intensity with a man who is physically much stronger than I am (that also means more skilled martial arts-wise than I am because strength per se does not mean much to me since I am pretty skilled at martial arts at this point). So this is not something dh would ever be able to give me...sadly ...and he understands that because before we moved back in together we had a very honest conversation about it.
post #60 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
without going much into details I want to clarify that i want a very specific kind of intensity with a man who is physically much stronger than I am (that also means more skilled martial arts-wise than I am because strength per se does not mean much to me since I am pretty skilled at martial arts at this point). So this is not something dh would ever be able to give me...sadly ...and he understands that because before we moved back in together we had a very honest conversation about it.
What happens if the new partner becomes sick or injured, and is no longer physically strong? Seek another partner? When does it end?

I think it is great that you've been communicating so openly and honestly, but it isn't clear what lengths the two of you have gone to in effort to create this intensity in your current relationship. So much of sex and intimacy is mental, and physical strength is not always needed to be "strong" in bed. You both accept that he could "never" fill this need, but I wonder if that is really true.
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