You can be upset and not scream...to make him understand...

[its_our_family]

My son is almost 23 months old. He has gotten to the point where I either want to smack the crap out of him or run and hide. I've been hiding a lot :

I realized tonight that what irritates me the most is not him constantly screaming NO or how he points at me and tells me to sit down or the other hundred other things a 2 year old does.

What drives me nuts is that when he gets upset, mainly flustered beause he can't say waht he wants so we understand, he fusses for about 10 seconds and then screams at me. Tonight I told him "You can be upset but that doesn't mean you can scream." I want him to understand his emotions and be willing to express them. I know in a little bit he will be able to speak in words what is wrong but I can't take all the screaming until then. He screams, than I scream to be heard, then he screams louder, which makes me scream louder...it jsut goes on and on.

How can I get him to realize that he can be mad or sad or aggrivated but he cannot scream and yell at me. I realize these are tantrums but I know he is a smart boy who is very loving and gentle. But he jsut has turned into this little monster and I'm afraid it will jsut keep getting worse and I'll never be able to take him anywhere because of his behavior.

[mamaduck]

I was too hard on my firstborn because I had it in my head that every negative behavior would last forever if I didn't somehow get control of it, and he would grow up to be a monster.

Guess what? I was wrong. Most everything passes by itself. Its so much easier to be mellow with the second baby.

The fact that he is preverbal, and you realize already that the source of his frustration is his inability to communicate effectively, tells me that this is a stage that WILL pass.

Screaming back will make it worse. He will imitate you.

As he becomes more verbal, you can direct him to "Use words" and to "Tell the problem with words." It really works. He wants to be understood as much as you want to understand, and he'll work with you when he is able to.

[lilmiss'mama]

My oldest dd is definetly verbal, so she could use words, but often doesn't. She flies off the handle at any mention of her not being able to do what she wants. I try to talk to her and explain what is going on, but she screams, cries and yells at me. Totally frustrating. Usually I end up walking away until she is done with her fit, but then this makes her more upset. Sometimes my nerves just can't take standing there and listening to her scream. I have even tried picking her up to comfort her while she is having a fit, but most of the time she doesn't want me to touch her. So, sorry to hijack the thread. Really I would just like some advice too.

[mamaduck]

A not-yet-3 yo. might be "verbal" in the sense that she has words at her disposal, but still not be quite at the stage that she can easily put together the right words to express herself when she is very upset. There can be some lag time between learning words and starting to use them in the heat of the moment.

[its_our_family]

So, I guess we are on the right track then.

What I feel so bad about is him imitating us. That gets him in trouble but when we do it to him who is there to correct us? It is so hard and my mom just laughs. My T is jsut like my sister as a toddler. She doesn't think the behavior is funny or anything she just remember how hard and trying it is. We were spanked as kids (and I honestly can't say I even remember a time when I was) but I'm trying to not do that to my kids. It is hard and some times we'll go months and not have a problem but then we'll have a week where it sneaks its way in to the "discipline" arsenal. (So, I guess the spanking we did get is ingrained : )

A good example of him imitating is the new kitten. We are constantly telling Spaz "No, get down" and push him off whatever he is on. Well, now T walks through the house teling the cat NO and pushing him off things even if he is ok where he is.

Its amazing how much kids pick up on just from watching... (T also grabs my butt...i wonder where he learned that )

[mamaduck]

Yes, rules have to be consistent. You won't get anywhere if you have one set of rules for yourself and one for the kids (except for a few exceptions where you can indicate that "this is for grown-ups to do," or "that is for kids to do.") But if you are screaming at him for certain behaviors, then what do you expect him to do when he sees you doing the same thing? And if you are spanking sometimes, and then not spanking, and the slipping back into spanking again... then he never knows what to expect.
His little universe is very unpredictable, and that can cause a lot of anger and frustration -- even for one so little. And anger and frustration in a preverbal child leads to screaming, because he does not know what else to do. He's watching *you* to find out what acceptable behavior looks like. I know -- it isn't easy. And I'm not meaning to come down so hard on you, because I KNOW what it feels like to "loose it" one time too many and live to regret it. But there is a difference between loosing it with your kids occasionally, and creating an overall environment that is unpredicatable and inconsistent. KWIM? I could be off base. But I think its worth considering.

[Nate]

I was just reading the Sears discipline book, and ran across this suggestion for tantrums--if he's getting ready to have a tantrum, or has just screamed w/o words, can you try to put his feelings into words? Like "I know you're mad! It's hard to wait! You want that NOW!"

Sears calls it "speaking your child's mind" and says "hearing feelings being put into words is the best way for your child to learn how to put feelings into words." He says this can be really useful at diffusing a situation. I think Harvey Karp's new book, Happies Toddler on the Block, uses pretty much the same philosophy...
www.thehappiestbaby.com
ABC news story on Karp's newest book

[Bippity]

I'm reading Karp's book now & yup - that's exactly what he's advocating. He calls it the "fast food method" - like when you order a McD's (I know, I know...!) it goes something like this...

(1) Toddler: TANTRUM!!!
(2) You repeat his "order" basically, state what he wants in an age-appropriate way: You want juice. You want, you want, you want juice now. You want it now. (He says you have to repeat at least 5-10 times & match his intensity!)
(3) Then you identify his feelings: You MAD, You MAD, You want juice now, but NOOO Juice, You MAD. (Again 5-10 short, little things until he starts to calm down-match his intensity.)
(4) THEN once he calms down a bit, try to distract, or offer a hug, or offer other choices. Or for older toddlers do some "wishful thinking" I wish I could give you some juice right now - I'd give you a BIG glass, but we're all out, or it's too close to dinner - or you just had your limit. Also for a little older kids, clarify feelings after things are calm again - "boy, you were really mad. It must be frustrating to want some juice and only be offered water instead. When you're mad - tell me your mad. Say, I'm MAD. OK, show me how you would say, I'M MAD. etc...

Honestly, I don't know if this will work yet - my DD is just 11 months old!! But, it makes sense to me... it's like pared down communication skills that we use with adults. Mirroring and naming the feelings and then offering some alternative or further discussion.

Karp says that little ones cannot listen to reason during a meltdown - it's not in 'em. (It's not really In adults either!!) Just get thru the tantrum by mirroring his experience & identifying the feelings and THEN try to "fix" it.

Have you tried whispering? Just a thought I had...?

[its_our_family]

I just feel so bad for him. his little world is upside down!

I haven't tried anything yet. I jsut decided to do something constructive about it last night.

Man, this is hard stuff!!

[Peppermint]

Mamaduck had it totally right in her first post, I know you IOF, and you are a good mama, no doubt about it. I promise, as a mother to 3 kids, and having been through the 2s once, and going through it now, I assure you, it will pass. I think you need to find a way to not let his screaming bother you so much (I know it's hard when the new babe is finally asleep and then the screaming starts). I try to remain very calm when Danny starts screaming, then when there is a break in the screaming I tell him, "I'm sorry I just do not know what you are trying to tell me when you yell", or if I know what he is thinking/feeling, I say it for him "you are angry b/c I can't get your milk right now b/c I'm nursing Sean", then I suggest he come cuddle me or grab me a diaper so I can change Sean after he nurses, something to distract him until I can help him out.

Also, make sure that you are being reasonable in what you expect of him.

I find that making specific threads on here helps, give clear examples of what sets him off, and we can help brainstorm how to best handle it, sometimes it might be as easy as making sure that T can get himself snacks (Ie- make a bottom cupboard full of healthy snacks for T). If you can head off the tantrums that will help.

Mainly the suggestions would be to help you get through this stage. Please do not worry that he is going to become out of control/crazy naughty child. Set a good example- stop yourself from yelling -I know yelling hurts your ears, makes you crazy, sets you off, etc.- but just find a way to keep yourself calm when he's yelling (you want to save your loud voice for when he does something dangerous- which BTW- I would make certain that T learns that he cannot do with the cat what you guys do), this really is a stage and as he develops verbally, it will get better, and then you'll only see it when he's feeling sick or things are disrupted in his life (that's the only time my now 4 yo yells).

Can you give examples of what starts him yelling?



PS- you are so brave to get a kitten when you have a 2 yo and a newborn:LOL

[its_our_family]

:LOL Yes, we are brave. The kitten. luckily, never uses his claws against T. They play and it is so cute to watch. T throws things and Spaz chases it and actually fetches!!

An example would be:

He is allowed to watch videos periodically troughout the day. Not all day long but sometimes. Anyway, he has several videos to choose from. he picks one and then 2 minutes later is throwing a fit because he wans the other one. We'll go back and forth between the same to videos all day if he could. He doesn't even give us a chance to respond on this one. He just starts screaming and crying.

He'll ask for juice. So, I say "Ok, we'll get some juice". Then he'll scream NO! Milk!! So, I go to get him milk. THEN he screams for water! What am I supposed to do. He spends most of the day with 2 cups, one with water the other with juice.

I guess a lot of his frustration comes when he has a choice. Its the choosing that gets him.

Or when we go to leave the house. I'll tell him about 15 minutes before we have to leave that we'll be going soon. And he is ok with it but sometimes he tells me no. Then about 5 mintues before leave time I tell him we need to put on his jacket. That is when the fight starts. He throws himself and takes the coat off. Then he screams the whole time getting in the car and arches his back. He is fine once we are gone but its the leaving he throws a fit over.

The more annoying thing is that he does NOT do this stuff to dh. He saves it all for me :

[Peppermint]

Naptime right now, but I have a couple of ideas- I'll be back later

[TeaBag]

Originally posted by mamaduck
I was too hard on my firstborn because I had it in my head that every negative behavior would last forever if I didn't somehow get control of it, and he would grow up to be a monster.

I remember this. Someone once said to me that when they're doing something we like, we beg and beg for it to continue, but when they're doing something we don't approve of, we think it will never end! LOL! The fact is, at this age, it all changes...something I need to remind myself of still!!

[monkey's mom]

Re: You can be upset and not scream...to make him understand...

Originally posted by its_our_family
My son is almost 23 months old. He has gotten to the point where I either want to smack the crap out of him or run and hide. I've been hiding a lot :

I think this is a really important piece!!

I get this feeling more than I care to, also. So here's the thing--if I've had all these years to learn how to identify, experience, manage, and ride out my feelings and *I'm* still having trouble with it--why do I expect my 2 yr. old to do it better than he does? Does that make sense?

I think being aware of how hard these feelings hit me help me tolerate my son's outbursts--and help me realize that he's not just being "a brat" ('cause that's the old thinking) and that he *will* learn how to experience his emotions in a more "appropriate" way--sometime down the road.

What I've been doing is to gently remind him: "Listen, Buddy. You can just say, 'Mommy, I don't care for that.'" or "How about next time you say: 'I really want xyz!'" or "You don't have to shout--just ask regularly, OK? I'm happy to help."

[Bippity]

He saves it all for me

I've heard that they only act up with those they trust the most & feel the most safe with, so at the very least you can consider it a compliment & know that you're doin' something right!! He trusts you with his feelings enough that he's not hesitant to have a meltdown when you're around!

[its_our_family]

Bippity...Oddly enough, that DID make me feel better

Tonight was a super night! He was near perfect. No tantrums!! the biggest difference tonight was we weren't rushed around and dh and I are conciously trying to pay more attention and love on him more. I just hope it carries through tomorrow

[hipumpkins]

My DD is only appraching 17mos so take this advice with a grain of salt. When it is time for us to leave DD says, Bye to whatever she is playing with. Also I always let her take one thing with her.